SDA position on the Daily

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

Daniel understood what the daily was.

So it had to be something he was familiar with.

Which points quite plainly to the sacrificial system.

But the daily is more specifically tied to the daily intercession that is made on behalf of sinners. Remember, the lamps were burning "continually". Offerings were offered "continually". This went on from evening to morning. Remember, Ellen White herself clearly said that the word "sacrifice" was "added by man's wisdom". She did not endorse this added word.

Remember that the critics were using this word "sacrifice" as proof that it was referring to the earthly Jewish animal sacrifices.

But that still does not mean the "daily" does not relate to the sacrificial and ceremonial system, so I can understand how the translators would have assumed its use, they were not very far away...

:-)

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

So in summary:

Whether you use the translation "continual" or "daily", the original intention of that word was to identify Christ and His merits as the lamb of God, the Bread of Life.

Amen, I agree.

Amen. :-)

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Isaiah56

It's apparent from Daniel 8: 27 and 9: 1-7 that the prophet thought "the daily" referred to the earthly sanctuary in Jerusalem. If Daniel understood that the daily was Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary, he wouldn't have fainted and been sick for days. He was sick for day because he thought it meant he and his people would not be returning to Jerusalem like the prophet Jeremiah had promised. Even today most Christians believe "the daily" describes the animal sacrifices in the temple in Jerusalem which Antiochus IV interrupted.

What would you say is the fastest, simplest, and most proficient way to help an evangelical see that the "daily" and the "sanctuary" in Daniel 8:9-14 is referring to the "heavenly sanctuary" and not the earthly? There are so many ways to look at it and evaluate it, that it can be difficult at times knowing how to prove in a simple way that the sanctuary being described is the heavenly.

If you establish the original purpose of the sanctuary as a shadow, which points to the heavenly it shouldn't be an issue...

If they do not have a deep seated need to avoid the simple truth... :-)

[ClubV12]

Twilight says,

"I think that the reasoning for the "daily" or "continous" being the sacrificial services pointing to Christ have been pretty strong..."

Hmmmm, yeah, maybe...

To review the two formal views on the matter:

• Pioneers see "the daily" as the work of Satan, the evil of paganism exalted and absorbed into something worse—papalism.

• The "new view" sees "the daily" as the work of Christ; His High Priestly ministry successfully removed by Satan.

• A more recent "third view" suggests that the daily points to the Sabbath being taken away and replaced by Sunday worship.

Could the daily contain some truth in ALL THREE views, dependant on the time in history?

One thing that it SEEMS we can all agree on, is that Daniel is applicable to OUR day, right now, it was written for us. As such it is likely this generation may be in a position to understand it in more fullness than any before us. Including Sister White.

I cannot assume the "daily" refers to sacrafices, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, it's not crystal clear.

[Twilight II]

Twilight says,

"I think that the reasoning for the "daily" or "continous" being the sacrificial services pointing to Christ have been pretty strong..."

Hmmmm, yeah, maybe...

To review the two formal views on the matter:

• Pioneers see "the daily" as the work of Satan, the evil of paganism exalted and absorbed into something worse—papalism.

• The "new view" sees "the daily" as the work of Christ; His High Priestly ministry successfully removed by Satan.

• A more recent "third view" suggests that the daily points to the Sabbath being taken away and replaced by Sunday worship.

Could the daily contain some truth in ALL THREE views, dependant on the time in history?

One thing that it SEEMS we can all agree on, is that Daniel is applicable to OUR day, right now, it was written for us. As such it is likely this generation may be in a position to understand it in more fullness than any before us. Including Sister White.

I cannot assume the "daily" refers to sacrafices, maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, it's not crystal clear.

I see absolutely no reason why anyone would say the "daily" is the work of Satan, other than to hold onto the "past" in some misguided attempt to remain "historic"...

Biblically, it has no grounds that I can see.

So I cannot see how it could be "part" of the meaning.

Mark :-)

[Twilight II]

Whilst also pointing out that the role of the papacy is in the prophecy already, so to apply the "continual" or "daily" to that is totally unnecessary...

[skyblue888]

It is written that "the daily" was throdden down under foot by the little horn, right? I have always understood this to mean that the papacy established another priesthood on earth in the place of Christ's priesthood in Heaven. I remember studying this in College and it was shown conclusively like some have already said that the word "sacrifice" did not belong there in the first place and that it was added later by some translators.

sky

[Twilight II]

It is written that "the daily" was throdden down under foot by the little horn, right? I have always understood this to mean that the papacy established another priesthood on earth in the place of Christ's priesthood in Heaven. I remember studying this in College and it was shown conclusively like some have already said that the word "sacrifice" did not belong there in the first place and that it was added later by some translators.

sky

Dan 8:12 And an host was given [him] (Pagan Rome gains control of Gods people "host") against the daily [sacrifice] (Jesus Christ as figured in the sacrificial system) by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. <-Papacy...

[ClubV12]

tamiyd (daily) meaning continual, perpetual or always. The sanctuary is involved, there is no doubt there. Daily, or tamiyd, also refers to the shew bread being replaced WEEKLY, so it's not necessarily an actual day to day event.

The Sabbath is also a "continual" event, set aside and trampled down. There is a LOT of symbolism in the sanctuary, well beyond the actual sacrafice(s) itself. We may be to focused on the "daily" representing this single event (a sacrafice). What if it represents something altogether different, His throne room in our lives? Like the continual presence of God in our hearts?

What Daniel understood it to be may not have the same application for us today.

...time to study more in depth the sanctuary service me thinks...

[Lysimachus]

tamiyd (daily) meaning continual, perpetual or always. The sanctuary is involved, there is no doubt there. Daily, or tamiyd, also refers to the shew bread being replaced WEEKLY, so it's not necessarily an actual day to day event.

The Sabbath is also a "continual" event, set aside and trampled down. There is a LOT of symbolism in the sanctuary, well beyond the actual sacrafice(s) itself. We may be to focused on the "daily" representing this single event (a sacrafice). What if it represents something altogether different, His throne room in our lives? Like the continual presence of God in our hearts?

What Daniel understood it to be may not have the same application for us today.

...time to study more in depth the sanctuary service me thinks...

Regardless, I'm fully persuaded that the Daily is Spiritual and not Pagan. It is intrinsically tied to the heavenly sanctuary.

Many do not realize it, but the "new view" is actually the "old view". Because the new view was held by a number of Protestant Reformers.

But once again, the Bible is our ultimate authority.

[ClubV12]

Actually I'm having a hard time separating "pagan" from "spiritual", I don't see a conflict there. Pagan, or the Papacy, setting aside something spiritual.

"But once again, the Bible is our ultimate authority."

Why does that sound like all we have to do is hit the "easy button"?

But that is a good point, in this case in particular, the bible is the ultimate authority. SO much to learn.

[Twilight II]

Like the continual presence of God in our hearts?

What Daniel understood it to be may not have the same application for us today.

Now you have my full attention...

Linking this to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, if applicable, would be very interesting...

[Twilight II]

Regardless, I'm fully persuaded that the Daily is Spiritual and not Pagan. It is intrinsically tied to the heavenly sanctuary.

Many do not realize it, but the "new view" is actually the "old view". Because the new view was held by a number of Protestant Reformers.

But once again, the Bible is our ultimate authority.

100% with you here on all four points...

[ClubV12]

If Daniel 12 is written for OUR TIME, today, right now, then what is this 1290 days doing in there? Daniel 12: 1 and 2 seem to leave little doubt the chapter is for the very end of time. Is that (1290 in Dan 12) a separate time frame from the 1290 years we see in the 2,300 year prophecy of Daniel 8?

[ClubV12]

Just re-read Dan 8 and Dan 12 again, slowly..... Gotta be two separate issues of time. One is 2,300 years, ended in 1844. The other appears to be literal days, 1,290 and 1,335, if they are not segments of the 2,300 year prophecy, what are they, where do they fit?

[skyblue888]

Just re-read Dan 8 and Dan 12 again, slowly..... Gotta be two separate issues of time. One is 2,300 years, ended in 1844. The other appears to be literal days, 1,290 and 1,335, if they are not segments of the 2,300 year prophecy, what are they, where do they fit?

What makes you say that these time prophecies "appear" to be literal days?

sky

[miz3]

That's because you have made it sooooo complex with all the added human stuff made to point to SDA Church and 1844.

[Derogatory words here deleted by the moderator.]

[miz3]

God is telling Daniel things that do not apply to him but actually apply to those who live in 1844 and after?

[ClubV12]

Is it possible the moderator can limit this thread to those who DO accept the fundamental view of the Adventist church on the 2,300 year prophecy?

Dan 12:11 And from the time the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Dan 12:12 Blessed he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Bear in mind, this in no way cancels or makes void the 2,300 year prophecy in Daniel 8. If anything it's a dual application of the 1,290-1,335 OR, a completely different application of time but in days instead of years.

"Appear" because I don't know what "days" actually means in these verses. Could be the classic day for a year thing, but maybe not, in THIS case?

[John317]

Let us not get to hung up on the details and consider the broader message that John touched on, "purification" in light of the understanding of the book of Daniel being for OUR time. I think that is SO huge, I could see starting a new thread exploring that subject.

I think that this is the main issue that SDAs should be talking to one another about, understanding and practicing in our personal lives. It seems to me that all the other details pale into insignificance compared to this. It's what the purpose of the entire book boils down to when it comes to the people of God living just before the second coming.

Whether Daniel did or did not have a complete grasp of the TAMID (continual, daily) is a minor detail in comparison with the importance of our understanding it ourselves and knowing how it relates to the time of special purification referred to in Daniel 12: 10. This verse is associated closely with the Three Angels' Messages of Rev. 14: 6-12.

Compare Daniel 12: 10 with the following statements by Ellen White:

Quote:

Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort they must be conquerors in the battle with evil. While the investigative judgment is going forward in heaven, while the sins of penitent believers are being removed from the sanctuary, there is to be a special work of purification, of putting away of sin, among God's people upon earth. This work is more clearly presented in the messages of Revelation 14.

When this work shall have been accomplished, the followers of Christ will be ready for His appearing. {GC 425}

[John317]

.... I guess when I said it was the worst thing, I meant in perspective of how many people went astray. But it surely was a positive thing as far as causing many of us to search deeper and sharpen our understanding of the Investigative Judgment. One thing is for sure, the IJ sure stirs up a lot of controversy with people. It's like people just don't want to have to accept that we are living in a pre-Advent judgment. That we are being judged BY OUR DEEDS. By their fruits ye shall know them. Yes, Christ's Sacrificial atonement was a COMPLETE atonement. But the benefits of that one-time are NOT complete. If it were complete, probation would be closed, and we would have no Mediator to intercede on our behalf.

I completely agree with you. This is why the message of the Seventh-day Adventist church is different from the message preached by the "other churches." They have half the message that God wants proclaimed to the world at this time. The message that Christ died so that we might be forgiven of our sins is only part of the Good News.

We can be sure that there will be many people who receive the Seven Last plagues who once made a profession of faith in Jesus. The book of Revelation doesn't say that the way to avoid the Mark of the Beast is to accept Jesus. It says that the people who avoid the plagues are those who respond positively to the Three Angels Messages. These are people who are described as keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. If we accept Christ but then still obey the Beast, we will receive the mark of the Beast and be subjects of the Seven Last Plagues.

[John317]

God is telling Daniel things that do not apply to him but actually apply to those who live in 1844 and after?

Both the books of Daniel and Revelation-- as well as other portions of prophecies-- tell us that God revealed things to the prophets that are particularly for the benefit of those living in the very last days.

For example, the angel of God told Daniel:

8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told [is] true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it [shall be] for many days.

Also:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]?

12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

[ClubV12]

I was taught the 1290 and the 1335 of Daniel 12 was included within the time frame of the 2,300 year period. 508 AD was the beginning point for both, the Goths, the Papal power, the Sunday law's and all that.

These time periods, 1290 and 1335 are NOT critical to the 2,300 years, it can be sustained even if they are ignored. As opposed to say the 490 year time span, which IS critical to the 2,300 years. Remove the 490 and the whole thing collapses, as I see it. Where ever you chose to "install" the 1290-1335 the point is those time frames ended sometime before or at 1843-1844. I THINK that is the generally accepted Adventist view on these two time frames today. Right?

So if Daniel 12 is in the FUTURE, beyond 1844, for OUR time, where does the 1290-1335 fit? What do we do with the numbers? They can't be "years" they would have to be "days" if they are placed AFTER 1844.

Daniel 12:7 becomes a bit problematic if we place it after 1844. Unless like the "day" concept used in Daniel 12, we also apply the literal time concept to verse 7, time, times and half a time then become 3 and a half literal years.

[John317]

I was taught the 1290 and the 1335 of Daniel 12 was included within the time frame of the 2,300 year period. 508 AD was the beginning point for both, the Goths, the Papal power, the Sunday law's and all that.

These time periods, 1290 and 1335 are NOT critical to the 2,300 years, it can be sustained even if they are ignored. As opposed to say the 490 year time span, which IS critical to the 2,300 years. Remove the 490 and the whole thing collapses, as I see it. Where ever you chose to "install" the 1290-1335 the point is those time frames ended sometime before or at 1843-1844. I THINK that is the generally accepted Adventist view on these two time frames today. Right?

Yes, that's exactly right.

The 1290 days/years of Daniel 12: 11 would then stetch from 508 AD to 1798.

The 1335 days/years of Daniel 12: 12 would be from 508 AD to 1843,4.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

God is telling Daniel things that do not apply to him but actually apply to those who live in 1844 and after?

Both the books of Daniel and Revelation-- as well as other portions of prophecies-- tell us that God revealed things to the prophets that are particularly for the benefit of those living in the very last days.

For example, the angel of God told Daniel:

8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told [is] true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it [shall be] for many days.

Also:

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]?

12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Of course John317, it depends on what is meant by the "time of the end" or "the last days" or "many days".

These phrases could mean until what is spoken of has ended. One hundred years is "many days".

It does not have to mean thousands of years.

I think you are reading things into the text that are not there.