SDA position on the Daily

[John317]

The use of Ellen White by the SDA Church has always been THE SANCTIONING DEVICE.

To the truly "orthodox" SDA Ellen White is read and studied more than the Bible is.

There's no question that Ellen White's writings are important to the SDA church and to most individual members of the church.

However, it is false to claim that "truly 'orthodox' SDA" study Ellen White more than the Bible. For instance, I would probably be considered "orthodox SDa" in your thinking, yet the truth is that I study the Bible at least 10 hours for every hour of studying Ellen White's writings. No doubt there are SDAs who study Ellen White more than the Bible, but you can't blame Ellen White for this. She taught that people should study the Bible and base their beliefs on the Scriptures.

That doesn't mean she was advising people not to study her writings, however. She said that every Adventist home should have her books and study them. There's no contradiction between those things any more than there is between a Lutheran studying the Bible and studying Martin Luther's writings.

[ClubV12]

OK, I got a problem with the 2,300 charts.

Millers original chart terminated in 1843, as God designed it should as a test of faith for the people of that time.

It contained:

2,300, 1,260, 1,290 and 1,335

The newly formed, but not yet official group, of Adventists commissioned a new chart in 1850 correcting the error of 1843 and terminating the new chart in 1844. James White approved the new chart along with the brethren reviewing it.

BUT they DROPPED the 1,290 and the 1,335 because they didn't know what those time periods meant. Plus, they weren't relevant to the 2,300 year prophecy as a "proof".

SO, WHO and WHEN were the 1,290 and the 1,335 added BACK to the chart BY the pioneers? AFTER the 1850 chart?

Any modern Adventist chart shows them and accounts for the dates in a logical and reasonable manner, we just don't "need" them. Nor did they "need" them in 1850 with the "new" chart.

The "1335 Futurists" have NOT yet been put to bed, their argument looks weak, but, they may have a case with their 1290 and 1335 portion of the prophecy reckoning...

[cheddar]

….but the king of the north removes the daily and places the abomination of desolation.

This king is an individual not a persecuting papal power. Therefore the 1290 days are literal – not day for a year. If we read thru Dan. 11 the king of the south has sons and daughters (marks of an individual), both kings sit down at the same table and speak lies to each other (again the acts of two individuals).

Satan fits the role of the king of the north/little horn much better than the papacy.

When he comes the entire world will believe he is God and will literally worship him. All the worship that would normally be going up to Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary will be re-directed to him. So in essence he will remove the ‘daily’ or ‘continual’ intercession of Christ in heaven. He won’t remove it from the small minority who know the truth but for the rest of the world the daily will be taken away.

[ClubV12]

Cheddar, I take it your referring to the National Sunday law as the beginning of the literal 1,290-1,335 DAYS time period? That would be consistent with the "1335 Futurist" view.

...not that I necessarily buy that view, just sayin', thats what they believe...

So who made the first 2,300 year chart AFTER 1850 AND put back in the 1,290-1,335. Who, when, where and by what authority?

This issue just won't go away, I think the "church" is going to have come up with some solid arguments for or against. The "against" arguments are NOT well put, they still leave doubt. The "for" arguments fare no better. It's a draw, one day I believe it, the next day I don't!!!

[John317]

….but the king of the north removes the daily and places the abomination of desolation.

This king is an individual not a persecuting papal power. Therefore the 1290 days are literal – not day for a year.

Are you thinking that the King of the North is the same power or person throughout history?

Originally Posted By: cheddar

If we read thru Dan. 11 the king of the south has sons and daughters (marks of an individual), both kings sit down at the same table and speak lies to each other (again the acts of two individuals).

That is because in some parts of Daniel 11, the king of the South is the king of Egypt, the land to the south of Palestine. The kings of north originally were Mesopotamian kings of Assyria and Babylon.

Originally Posted By: cheddar

Satan fits the role of the king of the north/little horn much better than the papacy.

Do you mean Satan personally, or political/military powers through whom Satan works?

Originally Posted By: cheddar

When he comes the entire world will believe he is God and will literally worship him. All the worship that would normally be going up to Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary will be re-directed to him.

This is true.

Originally Posted By: cheddar

So in essence he will remove the ‘daily’ or ‘continual’ intercession of Christ in heaven. He won’t remove it from the small minority who know the truth but for the rest of the world the daily will be taken away.

But Satan appears as Christ shortly after the National Sunday Law, and a little before the enforcement of Sunday worship, or the image to the Beast.

Can you see that the papal system of false worship has already removed the continual worship of Christ in heaven, by obscuring it with false doctrines?

[Twilight II]

No. They can't be the Foundational Pillars of our faith. They can be true doctrines and they can be FB, but they can't become "Foundational Pillars of our faith." Those are matters of history and matters that were defined as such by God's prophet.

This seems a very "historicist" type argument here John317, or sailing very close to the wind.

Our "foundational pillars" are what the bible brings to us as such.

Once something is clearly biblical, it is "foundational".

We do not and never have founded our doctrines by the approval of the SOP.

The SOP has enabled us to discern foundaional truth, but it does not "authorise it".

That is not the role of the SOP.

[skyblue888]

Ellen White wrote, "The Scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent faith was the declaration: 'Unto two thousand and three hundred days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.' Daniel 8:14."

The fact that she wrote this is not what made Daniel 8:14 both the foundation and the central pillar of the advent movement. When she wrote this she was only stating the fact. It was the truth whether she stated it or not.

And it is the same with the other pillars of the advent faith like the Sabbath truth and the non-immortality of the soul.

These are teachings of the Bible. They became the pillars of the advent movement because they came to light at that time.

sky

[skyblue888]

But Satan appears as Christ shortly after the National Sunday Law, and a little before the enforcement of Sunday worship, or the image to the Beast.

John317

______________

John, wouldn't it be more correct to say that Satan will appear, impersonating Christ, shortly before the loud cry shall end at the time of the great final test which is the death decree.

I have always understood that the National Sunday Law itself is the setting up of the image of the beast.

sky

[ClubV12]

I came across another guy (web search) who supports the "1335 Futurist" view. Fourth generation Adventist. Claims to be a prophet, had visions confirming his interpretation of Daniel.

I say "these people" need to put the matter before the brethren and get it settled. If no consensus can be reached, they need to set it aside, let it go. The matter HAS been brought to the attention of the GC, who reject the concept. Which is why you find some within the "1335 Futurists" who then claim the GC is in apostasy and cannot be relied on for biblical doctrine or instruction. Thats another can of worms altogether right there.

Some don't claim to reject the 2,300 year prophecy, and then go on to explain the pioneers and even the modern scholars just haven't figure it out correctly. Is that subtle or what?

I'm done... I need to refocus on Christ, and Him crucified. Ya'll get back to me when this has been settled, by the "counsel of the brethren" and I'll take a look at it. Until then,,, I'm done, it "feels like" to many kooks in the kitchen.

[John317]

They can't be the Foundational Pillars of our faith. They can be true doctrines and they can be FB, but they can't become "Foundational Pillars of our faith." Those are matters of history and matters that were defined as such by God's prophet.

Originally Posted By: TwilightII

This seems a very "historicist" type argument here John317, or sailing very close to the wind.

Our "foundational pillars" are what the bible brings to us as such.

Once something is clearly biblical, it is "foundational".

Let me explain it this way.

It is biblical and true that Jonah went to Ninevah, but it is not a foundational belief or pillar of the SDA church.

Let's take another example, the doctrine of the Trinity. That doctrine is biblical and true, but it is not one of the foundational pillars of our faith or the landmarks of our faith.

Why not? Because it wasn't one of our doctrines at the time, or near the time, the Seventh-day Adventist Church was founded.

There's a difference between foundational "landmarks," "pillars" or "waymarks" of our faith and the Fundamental Beliefs or biblical teachings.

Foundational Pillars of our faith have to do with the historical development of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Check out some important quotes by Ellen White on this topic:

Quote:

My message to you is: No longer consent to listen without protest to the perversion of truth. Unmask the pretentious sophistries which, if received, will lead ministers and physicians and medical missionary workers to ignore the truth. Every one is now to stand on his guard. God calls upon men and women to take their stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. I have been instructed to warn our people; for many are in danger of receiving theories and sophistries that undermine the foundation pillars of the faith. {1SM 196.4}

It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction.--4T 211.

Before the last developments of the work of apostasy there will be a confusion of faith. There will not be clear and definite ideas concerning the mystery of God. One truth after another will be corrupted. {Mar 192.2}

After the truth has been proclaimed as a witness to all nations, every conceivable power of evil will be set in operation, and minds will be confused by many voices crying. "Lo, here is Christ; lo, He is there. This is the truth, I have the message from God, He has sent me with great light." Then there will be a removing of the landmarks, and an attempt to tear down the pillars of our faith. A more decided effort will be made to exalt the false sabbath, and to cast contempt upon God Himself by supplanting the day He has blessed and sanctified. This false sabbath is to be enforced by an oppressive law. {Mar 192.3}

In the future, deception of every kind is to arise, and we want solid ground for our feet. We want solid pillars for the building. Not one pin is to be removed from that which the Lord has established. The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith. {Mar 192.4}

There will be false dreams and false visions, which have some truth, but lead away from the original faith. The Lord has given men a rule by which to detect them: "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20). {Mar 192.5}

As we near the end of time, falsehood will be so mingled with truth, that only those who have the guidance of the Holy Spirit will be able to distinguish truth from error. We need to make every effort to keep the way of the Lord. We must in no case turn from His guidance to put our trust in man. The Lord's angels are appointed to keep strict watch over those who put their faith in the Lord, and these angels are to be our special help in every time of need. Every day we are to come to the Lord with full assurance of faith, and to look to Him for wisdom. . . . Those who are guided by the Word of the Lord will discern with certainty between falsehood and truth, between sin and righteousness. {Mar 192.6}

For more than half a century [i.e., since 1844] the different points of present truth have been questioned and opposed. New theories have been advanced as truth, which were not truth, and the Spirit of God revealed their error. As the great pillars of our faith have been presented, the Holy Spirit has borne witness to them, and especially is this so regarding the truths of the sanctuary question. Over and over again the Holy Spirit has in a marked manner endorsed the preaching of this doctrine. But today, as in the past, some will be led to form new theories and to deny the truths upon which the Spirit of God has placed His approval. {OFC 271.4}

Landmarks of Truth, Experience, and Duty.-- Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 59. (1904.) {CW 52.1}

As a people we are to stand firm on the platform of eternal truth that has withstood test and trial. We are to hold to the sure pillars of our faith. The principles of truth that God has revealed to us are our only true foundation. They have made us what we are. The lapse of time had not lessened their value.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 51. (1904.) {CW 52.2}

No line of truth that has made the Seventh-day Adventist people what they are, is to be weakened. We have the old landmarks of truth, experience, and duty, and we are to stand firmly in defense of our principles, in full view of the world.--Testimonies, Vol. 6, p. 17. {CW 52.3}

Moving a Block or Stirring a Pin.--I saw a company who stood well guarded and firm, giving no countenance to those who would unsettle the established faith of the body. God looked upon them with approbation. I was shown three steps,--the first, second, and third angels' messages. Said my accompanying angel, "Woe to him who shall move a block or stir a pin of these messages. The true understanding of these messages is of vital importance. The destiny of souls hangs upon the manner in which they are received." I was again brought down through these messages, and saw how dearly the people of God had purchased their experience. It had been obtained through much suffering and severe conflict. God had led them along step by step, until He had placed them upon a solid, immovable platform. --Early Writings, pp. 258, 259. (1858.) {CW 53.1}

The Sanctuary a Point of Special Attack.-- In the future, deception of every kind is to arise, and we want solid ground for our feet. We want solid pillars for the building. Not one pin is to be removed from that which the Lord has established. The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith. Where shall we find safety unless it be in the truths that the Lord has been giving for the last fifty years?-- Review and Herald, May 25, 1905. {CW 53.2}

Satan is striving continually to bring in fanciful suppositions in regard to the sanctuary, degrading the wonderful representations of God and the ministry of Christ for our salvation into something that suits the carnal mind. He removes its presiding power from the hearts of believers, and supplies its place with fantastic theories invented to make void the truths of the atonement, and destroy our confidence in the doctrines which we have held sacred since the third angel's message was first given. Thus he would rob us of our faith in the very message that has made us a separate people, and has given character and power to our work.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 17. (1905.) {CW 53.3}

I know that the sanctuary question stands in righteousness and truth, just as we have held it for so many years. It is the enemy that leads minds off on sidetracks. He is pleased when those who know the truth become engrossed in collecting scriptures to pile around erroneous theories, which have no foundation in truth. The scriptures thus used are misapplied; they were not given to substantiate error, but to strengthen truth.--Gospel Workers, p. 303. (1915.) {CW 54.1}

There are the main pillars of our faith, subjects which are of vital interest, the Sabbath, the keeping of the commandments of God. Speculative ideas should not be agitated; for there are peculiar minds that love to get some point that others do not accept, and argue and attract everything to that one point, urging that point, magnifying that point, when it is really a matter which is not of vital importance, and will be understood differently. Twice I have been shown that everything of a character to cause our brethren to be diverted from the very points now essential for this time, should be kept in the background. {CW 77.1}

To Strengthen the Pillars of the Faith.-- The work of bookmaking is a grand and good work; but it has not always stood in the high and holy position that God designed it should occupy, because self has been interwoven with the work of some who have engaged in it. The book work should be the means of quickly giving the sacred light of present truth to the world. The publications that come forth from our presses today are to be of such a character as to strengthen every pin and pillar of the faith that was established by the word of God and by the revelations of His Spirit. {CW 142.1}

Our faith in reference to the messages of the first, second, and third angels was correct. The great waymarks we have passed are immovable. Although the hosts of hell may try to tear them from their foundation, and triumph in the thought that they have succeeded, yet they do not succeed. These pillars of truth stand firm as the eternal hills, unmoved by all the efforts of men combined with those of Satan and his host. We can learn much, and should be constantly searching the Scriptures to see if these things are so. God's people are now to have their eyes fixed on the heavenly sanctuary, where the final ministration of our great High Priest in the work of the judgment is going forward,--where He is interceding for His people.--Review and Herald, Nov. 27, 1883. {Ev 223.1}

Preaching the Sanctuary Doctrine Endorsed by Holy Spirit.--For more than half a century the different points of present truth have been questioned and opposed. New theories have been advanced as truth, which were not truth, and the Spirit of God revealed their error. As the great pillars of our faith have been presented, the Holy Spirit has borne witness to them, and especially is this so regarding the truths of the sanctuary question. Over and over again the Holy Spirit has in a marked manner endorsed the preaching of this doctrine. But today, as in the past, some will be led to form new theories and to deny the truths upon which the Spirit of God has placed His approval.--Manuscript 125, 1907. {Ev 224.2}

False Theories Regarding the Sanctuary.--In the future, deception of every kind is to arise, and we want solid ground for our feet. We want solid pillars for the building. Not one pin is to be removed from that which the Lord has established. The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith. Where shall we find safety unless it be in the truths that the Lord has been giving for the last fifty years?--Review and Herald, May 25, 1905. {Ev 224.3}

Contest Over Distinguishing Truth.--The time is near when the deceptive powers of satanic agencies will be fully developed. On one side is Christ, who has been given all power in heaven and earth. On the other side is Satan, continually exercising his power to allure, to deceive with strong, spiritualistic sophistries, to remove God out of the places that He should occupy in the minds of men. {Ev 224.4}

Satan is striving continually to bring in fanciful suppositions in regard to the sanctuary, degrading the wonderful representations of God and the ministry of Christ for our salvation into something that suits the carnal mind. He removes its presiding power from the hearts of believers, and supplies its place with fantastic theories invented to make void the truths of the atonement, and destroy our confidence in the doctrines which we have held sacred since the third angel's message was first given. Thus he would rob us of our faith in the very message that has made us a separate people, and has given character and power to our work.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 17. (1905) {Ev 225.1}

Truth is eternal, and conflict with error will only make manifest its strength. We should never refuse to examine the Scriptures with those who, we have reason to believe, desire to know what is truth. Suppose a brother held a view that differed from yours, and he should come to you, proposing that you sit down with him and make an investigation of that point in the Scriptures; should you rise up, filled with prejudice, and condemn his ideas, while refusing to give him a candid hearing? The only right way would be to sit down as Christians, and investigate the position presented, in the light of God's work, which will reveal truth and unmask error. To ridicule his ideas would not weaken his position in the least if it were false, or strengthen your position if it were true. If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time that we knew it. There must be no spirit of Phariseeism cherished among us. {GW92 127.1}

[John317]

Some don't claim to reject the 2,300 year prophecy, and then go on to explain the pioneers and even the modern scholars just haven't figure it out correctly. Is that subtle or what?

We will see this more and more as we draw closer to Christ's return. It is the same tactic Satan used in heaven to attack Christ. It is like a man telling his wife he loves her while he's actually cheating on her. God talks about this in the Hebrew prophets of the OT.

[John317]

But Satan appears as Christ shortly after the National Sunday Law, and a little before the enforcement of Sunday worship, or the image to the Beast.

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

John, wouldn't it be more correct to say that Satan will appear, impersonating Christ, shortly before the loud cry shall end at the time of the great final test which is the death decree.

I have always understood that the National Sunday Law itself is the setting up of the image of the beast.

The Sunday laws come in gradually.

First there's the "cry for Sunday laws," then the Sunday laws are passed, then Satan appears as an angel light, and then will be the "enforcement of Sunday worship Image to the beast." Sometime later the Sunday laws become universal. The Loud Cry occurs shortly after the Sunday laws become universal. The Loud Cry, of course, is God's last appeal to the world. (See 7 BC 984, 979-980)

There will be Satantic personifications both before and after close of probation. See (before) EW 26; GC 589; 2 SM 394; 19 MR 54; 5 T 698; and (after) LDE 165; 4 SP 441; GC 624; PP 686.

[skyblue888]

I believe rather that Satan appearing as Christ is the last act in the drama. He does not appear before the Sunday Law becomes universal but after just before the close of probation.

And the National Sunday Law is the setting up of the image of the beast first in the United States and every country on the globe will follow her example.

sky

[John317]

And the National Sunday Law is the setting up of the image of the beast first in the United States and every country on the globe will follow her example.

Yes, but it is important to remember that there will be Sunday laws prior to the National Sunday Law. The states will make them also, and they will not at first be strictly enforced. They will appear to be good laws that any rational, good citizen would favor.

Quote:

Satan will use every opportunity to seduce men from their allegiance to God. He and the angels who fell with him will appear on the earth as men, seeking to deceive. God's angels, also, will appear as men, and will use every means in their power to defeat the purposes of the enemy. We, too, have a part to act. We shall surely be overcome unless we fight manfully the battles of the Lord. {HFM 66.3}

The above occurs before the end of human probation, and before the National Sunday law is set up.

Quote:

I have been shown that evil angels in the form of believers will work in our ranks to bring in a strong spirit of unbelief. Let not even this discourage you, but bring a true heart to the help of the Lord against the powers of satanic agencies. {3SM 410.2}

These powers of evil will assemble in our meetings, not to receive a blessing, but to counterwork the influences of the Spirit of God. Take up no remark that they may make, but repeat the rich promises of God, which are yea and amen in Christ Jesus. {3SM 410.3}

Quote:

The apostles, as personated by these lying spirits, are made to contradict what they wrote at the dictation of the Holy Spirit when on earth. They deny the divine origin of the Bible, and thus tear away the foundation of the Christian's hope and put out the light that reveals the way to heaven. {GC 557}

Quote:

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17. {CC 245.1}

Through Esther the queen the Lord accomplished a mighty deliverance for His people. At a time when it seemed that no power could save them, Esther and the women associated with her, by fasting and prayer and prompt action, met the issue, and brought salvation to their people. {CC 245.2}

The trying experiences that came to God's people in the days of Esther were not peculiar to that age alone. . . . The same spirit that in ages past led men to persecute the true church, will in the future lead to the pursuance of a similar course toward those who maintain their loyalty to God. . . . The decree that will finally go forth against the remnant people of God will be very similar to that issued by Ahasuerus against the Jews. Today the enemies of the true church see in the little company keeping the Sabbath commandment, a Mordecai at the gate. The reverence of God's people for His law is a constant rebuke to those who have cast off the fear of the Lord and are trampling on His Sabbath. . . . {CC 245.3}

Men of position and reputation will join with the lawless and the vile to take counsel against the people of God. Wealth, genius, education, will combine to cover them with contempt. Persecuting rulers, ministers, and church members will conspire against them. {CC 245.4}

With voice and pen, by boasts, threats, and ridicule, they will seek to overthrow their faith. By false representations and angry appeals, men will stir up the passions of the people. Not having a "Thus saith the Scriptures" to bring against the advocates of the Bible Sabbath, they will resort to oppressive enactments to supply the lack. To secure popularity and patronage, legislators will yield to the demand for Sunday laws. But those who fear God, cannot accept an institution that violates a precept of the Decalogue. On this battlefield will be fought the last great conflict in the controversy between truth and error. And we are not left in doubt as to the issue. Today, as in the days of Esther and Mordecai, the Lord will vindicate His truth and His people. {CC 245.5}

Those who honor the Bible Sabbath will be denounced as enemies of law and order, as breaking down the moral restraints of society, causing anarchy and corruption, and calling down the judgments of God upon the earth. Their conscientious scruples will be pronounced obstinacy, stubbornness, and contempt of authority. They will be accused of disaffection toward the government. Ministers who deny the obligation of the divine law will present from the pulpit the duty of yielding obedience to the civil authorities as ordained of God. In legislative halls and courts of justice, commandment keepers will be misrepresented and condemned. A false coloring will be given to their words; the worst construction will be put upon their motives. {GC 592.1}

As the Protestant churches reject the clear, Scriptural arguments in defense of God's law, they will long to silence those whose faith they cannot overthrow by the Bible. {GC 592}

The above paragraph is describing events prior to the National Sunday Law. During that time, fallen angels will appear as men in order to get people to do wrong.

[Windsor]

So many people seem absolutely certain what the "daily" references yet if it was truly so obvious, the following verse would be so simple to understand.

Daniel 12:11

“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Trying to plug this in to 508-1798 seems nonsensical. What abomination of desolation was set up in 1798? And if you can answer that, show me how that fits what Jesus said about it.

[ClubV12]

For several days I really struggled and prayed for a correct understanding of this "1335 Futurist" view. It appears that the path of truth lays very close to the path of error.

I see it more clearly than ever now, the two paths are not even close. The "1335 Futurists" are dangerously mistaken and widely separated from the path of truth. But this popular movement will surely ensnare a substantial amount of people. In my limited experience it is the most subtle error I've ever seen because it's delivered by well respected Adventists using the bible and the bible only while claiming Sister White support.

If you don't have a good understanding of the 2,300 year prophecy, you will be confused, possibly to the point of receiving and believing a gross error.

[Windsor]

One can believe the 1290 and 1335 days are yet future but at the same time not believe we can set a date for Christ's return. Ellen White states that the Father and the Father alone will give the date and time of Christ's return (of course Jesus said as much) audibly to all believers at the same time.

[ClubV12]

Actually, you can't believe the 1290 and the 1335 are future UNLESS you believe there have not yet happened.

But there ARE a couple of "slick ways" to get around "actually setting a date" for Christs return. Impressive how they conjur that up.

I thought for awhile it "could be" IF there was a "dual application" of these time frames. But that becomes impossible, as the "1335 Futurists" themselves have noted. You have to accept, they either happened, or they are yet future, but not both.

Since we KNOW they already happened, any future application is impossible. It's false theology straight up. But boy does it sound convincing, this is one very smooth and well polished error designed especially to tickle Adventist ears.

[Windsor]

Your assumption is that the 1290 and 1335 days are somehow inextricably linked to the 1260 and even the 2300 days. I don't believe the abomination of desolation was setup. Certainly nobody escaped from Jerusalem at that time as Christ stated would happen.

[ClubV12]

Oh, it's NOT an assumption at all!!!! It is clearly supported from both biblically and from the Spirit of Prophecy. The 1260, 1290 and 1335 CANNOT BE REMOVED from the 2,300.

If they are future, the 2,300 year prophecy is toast, the rug is pulled out from under the Seventh-day Adventist church, the foundation crumbles. What amazes me is that some "1335 Futurist" don't see this. Somehow, in their delusion, they think we can have it all. The old and the new beliefs. A gross mistake, SO serious, the church would be forced to consider "membership issues" for those openly teaching this false doctrine.

[John317]

So many people seem absolutely certain what the "daily" references yet if it was truly so obvious, the following verse would be so simple to understand.

Daniel 12:11

---And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Trying to plug this in to 508-1798 seems nonsensical. What abomination of desolation was set up in 1798? And if you can answer that, show me how that fits what Jesus said about it.

I think you are reading this wrong.

It doesn't say that the abomination of desolation is set up in 1798. It is saying that when the "daily," or "continous intercession," is taken away and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be 1290 days...

Until what? Well, what has the writer been talking about? See Daniel 12: 9 where it speaks of "the time of the end." So the 1290 days/years points us to the time of the end, a relatively brief period before Christ's return.

1290 days after 508 AD, then, brings us to 1798. And what happened in 1798? That was the beginning of the time of the end. In other words, it is when the book of Daniel is unsealed. The 1260 days/years points to the same year, 1798.

What do you think?

[John317]

[John317]

I don't believe the abomination of desolation was setup.

The abomination of desolation was set up in 508 AD, at the same time that the daily was taken out of the way. That was the year the papacy rose up as a civil power and mounted the dragon. It would dominate the people of God and put down the truth. In Daniel 7: 25 the people of God were given over into the power of the little horn for 1260 days/years, and the truth regarding God's law was to be perverted for the same period of time.

At the end of the period of time, God would raise up a people who would rediscover and proclaim to the whole world the truths that the little-horn perverted and twisted and stomped on. These people would arise a short time after 1798, about the same time that the earth beast was rising up and the sea-beast was going into captivity.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

I don't believe the abomination of desolation was setup.

The abomination of desolation was set up in 508 AD, at the same time that the daily was taken out of the way. That was the year the papacy rose up as a civil power and mounted the dragon. It would dominate the people of God and put down the truth. In Daniel 7: 25 the people of God were given over into the power of the little horn for 1260 days/years, and the truth regarding God's law was to be perverted for the same period of time.

At the end of the period of time, God would raise up a people who would rediscover and proclaim to the whole world the truths that the little-horn perverted and twisted and stomped on. These people would arise a short time after 1798, about the same time that the earth beast was rising up and the sea-beast was going into captivity.

[duane2064]

"O son of man: for at the time of the end the vision. 18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end." THE FACT THAT ALL OF THE IMPORTANT EVENTS IN DANIEL 8 ARE IN THE END IS BACKED UP BY THE FACT THAT WHEN ALL THE DAILY ARE TAKEN AWAY THERE IS JUST 1335 DAYS LEFT. http://www.saeods.com/dandaily.html SEPARATELY, 3 THEOLOGIANS ASKED ELLEN WHITE TO SETTLE THE MATTER, QUESTION: WHICH OF THE 3 WAS RIGHT((ABOUT DANIEL'S DAILYS)), SHE COULDN'T PICK ONE BECAUSE NONE OF THEM WERE RIGHT, AND NONE OF WHAT YOU ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS RIGHT EITHER. "we see through a glass, darkly" i have figured out some things, please don't dismiss the massive amount of work i have done.