Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Posted September 10, 2011 ...Antichrist will no doubt have space ships or some other amazing powers....Perhaps heal people, stop wars from happening, create miracles! Most folks will look at what they are seeing and give up their Faith in Jesus and the Saints... ...They will turn to the "new way" We're in agreement here, Gustave. Satan can't truly heal people, but what he does is cause people to be sick and then remove the illness. He won't be able to raise the dead, but he will make it appear so. He will also make it appear that the dead have been resurrected and that humans are able to communicate with people long since dead. They will be demons-- fallen angels-- in disguise. If people believe them to be who they claim to be, they will believe the messages that these fallen angels pass on to humans. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
olger Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 yep Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Moderators Gerr Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Posted September 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: Gustave By definition that's NOT antichrist John... ...antichrist = "adversary" or "enemy" of Jesus. One day, I went with my pastor friend who was working on his masters at the Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena. Somehow the subject on one particular class touched on the antichrist. His understanding was the popular translation - "against" for the Greek anti. Since I was there only as an observer and not a student, I did not raise a question during class, but I did approach him afterwards. This supposedly Greek scholar was rather surprised when I pointed out that anti also meant "in place of" or "instead of". That was very surprising to me. Quote
Sonny Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Quote: According to Bible prophecy and the signs of the times, we are presently living in the Day of Atonement... Do you believe this? What does it mean to you? I agree with Jack's Biblical position on this: Read Quote
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 I don't have any objections to what Jack Sequiera says in that link, Sonny. But what we need to realize is that we could be that last generation. We shouldn't wait to make sure we're in that last generation before we keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Notice that Jack Sequiera says, Quote: According to Bible prophecy and the signs of the times, we are presently living in the Day of Atonement... Do you believe this? What does it mean to you? It means that we are to prepare for the close of probation - a time when Christ leaves the Most Holy Place (in true Rev 15:8 fashion) and we are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator - without any more atoning blood for new sin. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Gustave Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 The people through whom Satan will work just before Christ returns will not claim they are opposed to Jesus Christ. They will claim they are the true followers of Jesus. Quote
skyblue888 Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: John317 One day, I went with my pastor friend who was working on his masters at the Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena. Somehow the subject on one particular class touched on the antichrist. His understanding was the popular translation - "against" for the Greek anti. Since I was there only as an observer and not a student, I did not raise a question during class, but I did approach him afterwards. This supposedly Greek scholar was rather surprised when I pointed out that anti also meant "in place of" or "instead of". That was very surprising to me. _________________________ Yes, this is very true, and when we read that we think of the papal power that for 1260 years ruled "in place of" or "instead of" Christ in the church. The papacy had set up her throne between God and man. And we know that when her wound shall be healed she again will set up her throne between the multitudes of this earth and God. But what is even more startling than that, lo and behold, the majority of us fail to discern that in the meantime we, the professed people of God, are following in her track, making an image to her power and usurped authority in the church. For years we have been warned about the spirit of domination in our churches: "Satan's skill is exercised in devising plans and methods without number to accomplish his purposes. Dissimulation has become a fine art with him, and he works in the guise of an angel of light. God's eye alone discerns the schemes to constaminate the world with false and ruinous principles bearing on their face the appearance of genuine goodness. He works to restrict religious liberty and to bring into the relgious world a species of slavery... The high-handed power that has been developed as though position has made men gods makes me afraid and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. This lording it over God's heritage will create such a disgust of man's jurisdiction that a state of insubordination will result... At the time of the first advent of Christ to our world, the men who composed the Sanhedrin exercised their authority in controlling men according to their will. Thus the souls for whom Christ had given His life to free from the bondage of Satan were brought in bondage to him in another form... Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as day belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced even among Seventh-day Adventists, who claim to have advanced truth. The devisings for forcing men to follow the prescriptions of other men are instituting an order of things that overrides sympathy and tender compassion, that blinds the eyes to mercy, justice, and the love of God. Moral influence and personal responsibility are trodden underfoot. The righteousness of Christ has been ignored by some; for it is contrary to their spirit and their whole life experience. Rule, rule, had been their course of action. Satan has had an occasion to represent himself... Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they suppose to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring in a different order of things... The self-confident management of men has rsulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this to continue your faith will soon become extinct." (1907) T.M.366,361,366,360,362,481. If "antichrist" means that men are ruling "in the place of" or "instead of" Christ in the church, "to bring men under the control of men," then, according to the above testimonies, the present order of things in the Seventh-day Adventist church is guilty as charged and that is why the finishing of the work of God in the earth has been so long delayed. Between 1888 and 1901 God had called for a change: "What we want now is a reorganization. We want to build at the foundation and to build upon a different principle." E.G. White, 1901 General Conference Bulletin, p.25. That change never came. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Gustave Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Skyblue888, youre forgetting that Ellen promulgated the doctrines of antichrist... ...By claiming that Jesus was a "conditional creature christ". ...This was proven over in the Creed of Nicaea thread and why SDA's don't accept it. How could you point to the texts of Ellen White as an authority on what Antichrist does... ...When Ellen taught both Christ and salvation were conditional on Jesus not being eternally dead? ...That's not logical. Quote
skyblue888 Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 I do not listen to the voice of a stranger. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Gustave Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 I do not listen to the voice of a stranger. sky If you believe that Isaiah 35,4, Matthew 1,21 & approximately 50 other texts which say the same thing is the voice of a stranger I don't know what to tell you. Quote
Windsor Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: ClubV12 The Sabbath was made for MAN. Exactly, which demonstrates it was outside the moral law or character of God... ...Simply because God had a "govt" with laws in place eternally prior to creation. ...And the Sabbath did not have a place in that govt. That more than establishes that the Trinity is the greatest threat to the SDA church... ...Just like I said it was. Is "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also outside the moral law or character of God? After all, the angels do not marry. The commandment couldn't have been made until after man was created. Quote Remember Adventists Online?
Gustave Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Is "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also outside the moral law or character of God? After all, the angels do not marry. The commandment couldn't have been made until after man was created. He actually did comit adultery, by exalting himself and trading in his love for God for lust... ...The Children did the same thing & it was called the same thing. Jeremiah 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses Rev 2,22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also So Windsor, Satan did indeed break "that" commandment. Quote
cheddar Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 ...if the adultery commandment has a literal and spiritual nature to it - then the the sabbath commandment must also have a literal and spiritual side as well. Sunday is a common working day and has no holiness - the RCC church admits this and is open and frank about it. The 7th day sabbath is the correct day of worship - the problem is that many who try to keep it are so legalistic that they do more damage than good. In the new testament work is symbolic for 'unbelief' while rest is symbolic for true faith. This is the real issue behind the days. Heb. 4:9-11 (the word labour here is a horrible translation of the original word - I like endeavour or be diligent). Quote
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 Is "Thou shalt not commit adultery" also outside the moral law or character of God? After all, the angels do not marry. The commandment couldn't have been made until after man was created. It is unclear to me that scripture teaches that the entire universe is empty - save for angles and mankind. James is clear "he who is guilty of one - is guilty of all" and the Bible is the one that provides the term "The Ten Commandments". It is God's idea not man's. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
BobRyan Posted September 10, 2011 Posted September 10, 2011 ...if the adultery commandment has a literal and spiritual nature to it - then the the sabbath commandment must also have a literal and spiritual side as well. Sunday is a common working day and has no holiness - the RCC church admits this and is open and frank about it. That this the point where a quote from something like Dies Domini or some other official RC source would have been more convincing. otherwise it looks like your are just making stuff up. Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Posted September 10, 2011 This supposedly Greek scholar was rather surprised when I pointed out that anti also meant "in place of" or "instead of". That was very surprising to me. I find that downright shocking. All he has to do is read any Greek-English lexicon or Greek text-book. He probably didn't teach it and forgot the essentials. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Posted September 10, 2011 Very, very important! Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Posted September 10, 2011 The people through whom Satan will work just before Christ returns will not claim they are opposed to Jesus Christ. They will claim they are the true followers of Jesus. Originally Posted By: Gustave By definition that's NOT antichrist......antichrist = "adversary" or "enemy" of Jesus. The Greek preposition anti means both "instead of" and "against." See Greek-English lexicons. Actually, in the case of Satan, he wants to take Christ's place and he is also against Christ. The point we want to be sure and understand here is that antichrists don't necessarily broadcast to the world that they are against Christ. There are many who oppose Christ who believe they are working for Christ. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 10, 2011 Moderators Posted September 10, 2011 ... Ellen promulgated the doctrines of antichrist......By claiming that Jesus was a "conditional creature christ". ...This was proven over in the Creed of Nicaea thread and why SDA's don't accept it. I thought you said you weren't anti-EGW. Ellen White never said that Jesus was "a conditional creature christ." This is how you interpret her words, but she is not saying this. What you mean here is that you made these claims. We SDAs don't accept the Creed of Nicea and do not care in the slightest what it says. Even if we agreed with it, we would not support it or use it as any kind of authority. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Gustave Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 ...if the adultery commandment has a literal and spiritual nature to it - then the the sabbath commandment must also have a literal and spiritual side as well. Quote
Gustave Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 The Greek preposition anti means both "instead of" and "against." See Greek-English lexicons. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted September 11, 2011 Moderators Posted September 11, 2011 This is getting way off the topic again. The Sabbath is not the greatest threat to the SDA church. Let's get back on the topic. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted September 11, 2011 Moderators Posted September 11, 2011 The Greek preposition anti means both "instead of" and "against." See Greek-English lexicons. Originally Posted By: Gustave They are synonymous as both are a Christ OTHER than the Jesus of Sacred Scripture. I see your point and agree that in both cases, we're talking about those who are not Jesus of Sacred Scripture. But it does make a difference if we see them as speaking plainly against Christ or whether we see them as attempting to take the place of Christ in the minds of humanity. I see the antichrist as doing exactly what Satan did in the Garden. He did not tell Eve that he was opposed to God. Had Satan announced his intentions and his design, we can be sure Eve would not have listened to him. How did Satan come to Jesus? Did Satan tell Jesus that he was the devil and that he was opposed to Christ and to God? Of course not. Neither will Satan make it clear to the world that he is opposed to Christ. He will, rather, claim to love Christ and to teach exactly what Christ taught. He will not tell people that Christ of the Gospels was false. Satan is far more subtle than that. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Kevin H Posted September 11, 2011 Moderators Posted September 11, 2011 Greatest threats: 1. That we do a wonderful job of not loving the world, but use religion to feed that in us which thinks we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. 2. That we miss the purpose for the remanant of Exodus 19: 5-6 that we are priests for the whole world because all the world is God's. As we tend to isolate ourselves we are failing our calling. 3. That we depend on the institution (whether the institution of the General Conference, or the headquarters of some of our sub groups)in place of Chrst in our life. 4. That we are more focused on defending and supporting tradition and building a city where the pioneers fell asleep thinking that they reached the destination, instead of taking advantage of the explosion we have had of Bible study that started in the mid-1800s and moving on into a knowlege of the scrptures that they could not even dream of. 5. We see things beyond what the pioneers saw but use it against what they saw and give up what they saw and throw out the baby with the bathwater, as we too much trade the pathway they put us on to join the popular MacGospel that is so poppular. Quote
Windsor Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 Originally Posted By: cheddar ...if the adultery commandment has a literal and spiritual nature to it - then the the sabbath commandment must also have a literal and spiritual side as well. It can't because it didn't exist until after man was created. Originally Posted By: cheddar Sunday is a common working day and has no holiness - the RCC church admits this and is open and frank about it. Of course it is, the same as Saturday for Gentiles. Originally Posted By: cheddar The 7th day sabbath is the correct day of worship - the problem is that many who try to keep it are so legalistic that they do more damage than good. How is that? How is my going to Mass on Saturday less holy in your view... ...Then you going to your church service on the same day? Originally Posted By: cheddar In the new testament work is symbolic for 'unbelief' while rest is symbolic for true faith. This is the real issue behind the days. Heb. 4:9-11 (the word labour here is a horrible translation of the original word - I like endeavour or be diligent). This is a Jewish concept based around Rosh Hashanah... ...Which means that HAD Adam and Eve not sinned they would have entered into God's Rest. ...The Sabbath in Genesis was understood to have been a PERPETUAL STATE. The Sabbath wasn't intended to die off and then be activated again over and over again... ...It was designed to be an eternal state where man lived in God's Rest. ...Hebrews 9 has nothing at all to do with a Gregorian Saturday. You're obviously exchanging the literal meaning that the adultery commandment implies and creating a figurative meaning because your point on the Sabbath being outside God's moral law was clearly disproven. What about Thou Shalt Not Kill? When was that commandment made? After all, unfallen beings are immortal and can't be killed. The angels don't have fathers and mothers so there's another law outside of God's moral law if I continue your line of thinking. And you can't say it's talking about God the Father because that's already covered. Quote Remember Adventists Online?
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