Roosenberg SDA on Daniel 11

[ClubV12]

HCH says,

"Daniel 12:1 where Christ stands for His people in 1844."

That is not Seventh-day Adventist theology. Daniel 12:1 has nothing to do with 1844.

Daniel 11 is, without a doubt, chronological. In some chapters Daniel engages in explain and expound, but not in Daniel 11. He goes straight through the history, one nation after another right up until the end of time. The end of time, NOT the "time of the end". The END of time is 12:1, when Michael standsup, the judgment is over, probation has closed, the door of the ark is shut, the people are sealed. The last plagues begin, every case has been decided.

I don't speculate or engage in any kind of "date setting". For Kings, Popes, Presidents or anything else. Who is Pope, how long he rules, when he was elected is as irrelevant as who was or is or will be the President. Last day events are not dependant on any such calculations or leaders of Nations and lands.

[Ted Oplinger]

HCH says,

"Daniel 12:1 where Christ stands for His people in 1844."

That is not Seventh-day Adventist theology. Daniel 12:1 has nothing to do with 1844.

Daniel 11 is, without a doubt, chronological. In some chapters Daniel engages in explain and expound, but not in Daniel 11. He goes straight through the history, one nation after another right up until the end of time. The end of time, NOT the "time of the end". The END of time is 12:1, when Michael standsup, the judgment is over, probation has closed, the door of the ark is shut, the people are sealed. The last plagues begin, every case has been decided.

I don't speculate or engage in any kind of "date setting". For Kings, Popes, Presidents or anything else. Who is Pope, how long he rules, when he was elected is as irrelevant as who was or is or will be the President. Last day events are not dependant on any such calculations or leaders of Nations and lands.

Nicely put.

Blessings,

[hch]

HCH says,

"Daniel 12:1 where Christ stands for His people in 1844."

That is not Seventh-day Adventist theology. Daniel 12:1 has nothing to do with 1844.

Daniel 11 is, without a doubt, chronological. In some chapters Daniel engages in explain and expound, but not in Daniel 11. He goes straight through the history, one nation after another right up until the end of time. The end of time, NOT the "time of the end". The END of time is 12:1, when Michael standsup, the judgment is over, probation has closed, the door of the ark is shut, the people are sealed. The last plagues begin, every case has been decided.

I don't speculate or engage in any kind of "date setting". For Kings, Popes, Presidents or anything else. Who is Pope, how long he rules, when he was elected is as irrelevant as who was or is or will be the President. Last day events are not dependant on any such calculations or leaders of Nations and lands.

[ClubV12]

The above SOP quotes you posted, HCH, are entirely consistent with Uriah Smith, James White, myself and the Church as it concerns Daniel 11 and 12.

I don't know what you THINK you see in them but it is evident your interpretation is remarkably different than what Ellen White, the pioneers, the Church today and myself believe.

On the first quote: The prophet said she was shown Michael would stand up to deliver His people. I agree, verse 12:1, yet future, closes probation and seals (delivers) His people. Every studious Adventist bible believer from Ellen Whites time to today knows this. It remains a future event. No man knows the hour, not even Lucifer himself will know WHEN Michael HAS stood up and probation has closed. Thus he will continue his work to decieve and to tempt right into the seven plagues, unaware and confused as to whether or not probation has closed.

On the second quote: It is obvious Daniel didn't understand the prophecy. He was told to seal it up and not worry about it, it wasn't for his time. We are in "the end of times" right now, the book is open. It was written ESPECIALLY for those living at the "time of the end" (1798-today) within the time frame of the "end of times".

On the third quote: Those that have been will be repeated. Just like in Pauls day.

Winds of every doctrine? Check. False prophets? Check (some 200 in Ellen Whites day). Persecution? Check. Martyrs? Check, (for 1260 years a large amount, that continues today). War and rumor of war? Check. Knowledge will increase? Check. My personal take on knowledge increasing I apply to a knowledge of Gods word. Reading glasses, centuries ago, were a HUGE advancement so people COULD read. Printing press. Bible readily available in many languages. Along with advancements in science and such as well. All these things will be and have been repeated. Not in the same exact way, but the principles involved.

Noteworthy:

"Old controversies will be revived, and new theories will be continually arising." The Church has had to deal with the same issues Ellen White had to deal with. Nomanilism, fanatcism, false doctrine, off shoots. In many cases, the "same old controversies" repeated, with new ever being formulated by "wolves" (and off shoots).

HCH, how ironic, you yourself are fulfilling prophecy this very day!!! By introducing false theories and by counter acting the plain testimony of Seventh-day Adventists. It would appear to the average person on this forum that YOU are a Seventh-day Adventist. But your fruit, your theology and doctrine, you appear to be a Seventh-day Adventist in name only.

[hch]

The above SOP quotes you posted, HCH, are entirely consistent with Uriah Smith, James White, myself and the Church as it concerns Daniel 11 and 12.

I don't know what you THINK you see in them but it is evident your interpretation is remarkably different than what Ellen White, the pioneers, the Church today and myself believe.

On the first quote: The prophet said she was shown Michael would stand up to deliver His people. I agree, verse 12:1, yet future, closes probation and seals (delivers) His people. Every studious Adventist bible believer from Ellen Whites time to today knows this. It remains a future event. No man knows the hour, not even Lucifer himself will know WHEN Michael HAS stood up and probation has closed. Thus he will continue his work to decieve and to tempt right into the seven plagues, unaware and confused as to whether or not probation has closed.

On the second quote: It is obvious Daniel didn't understand the prophecy. He was told to seal it up and not worry about it, it wasn't for his time. We are in "the end of times" right now, the book is open. It was written ESPECIALLY for those living at the "time of the end" (1798-today) within the time frame of the "end of times".

On the third quote: Those that have been will be repeated. Just like in Pauls day.

Winds of every doctrine? Check. False prophets? Check (some 200 in Ellen Whites day). Persecution? Check. Martyrs? Check, (for 1260 years a large amount, that continues today). War and rumor of war? Check. Knowledge will increase? Check. My personal take on knowledge increasing I apply to a knowledge of Gods word. Reading glasses, centuries ago, were a HUGE advancement so people COULD read. Printing press. Bible readily available in many languages. Along with advancements in science and such as well. All these things will be and have been repeated. Not in the same exact way, but the principles involved.

Noteworthy:

"Old controversies will be revived, and new theories will be continually arising." The Church has had to deal with the same issues Ellen White had to deal with. Nomanilism, fanatcism, false doctrine, off shoots. In many cases, the "same old controversies" repeated, with new ever being formulated by "wolves" (and off shoots).

HCH, how ironic, you yourself are fulfilling prophecy this very day!!! By introducing false theories and by counter acting the plain testimony of Seventh-day Adventists. It would appear to the average person on this forum that YOU are a Seventh-day Adventist. But your fruit, your theology and doctrine, you appear to be a Seventh-day Adventist in name only.

I thank God that there are a few faithful SDA remaining that have not been deceived by the misreading of the SOP that permeates your theology.

[ClubV12]

Not my theology HCH, it is Seventh-day Adventist official theology.

I fully recognize that many people disagree with the Church and act out on that in many different ways. Some continue to go to Church, even though they disagree with the doctrine and theology. Some remove their membership and STILL come to Church anyway. Others just stop coming. Some start their own "off shoot" movement/Church/group. Some come to Church to "prey" on other members, they feel compelled to "help them" leave the Church!! This group feels they are doing Gods work and their delusion is very strong, it is extremely difficult for people in this last group to recover.

A common factor among them all? Condemnation of the Church and it's beliefs with an air of superiority and confidence. Sometimes with an apparent sense of love and understanding, but when this fails to achieve it's end, anger, force, rejection and threats are employed. The classic threat is "you will loose your soul" if you don't listen me, spoken in different ways. Implied, suggested or said outright, the end result is the same, intimidation and fear.

[hch]

Not my theology HCH, it is Seventh-day Adventist official theology.

I fully recognize that many people disagree with the Church and act out on that in many different ways. Some continue to go to Church, even though they disagree with the doctrine and theology. Some remove their membership and STILL come to Church anyway. Others just stop coming. Some start their own "off shoot" movement/Church/group. Some come to Church to "prey" on other members, they feel compelled to "help them" leave the Church!! This group feels they are doing Gods work and their delusion is very strong, it is extremely difficult for people in this last group to recover.

A common factor among them all? Condemnation of the Church and it's beliefs with an air of superiority and confidence. Sometimes with an apparent sense of love and understanding, but when this fails to achieve it's end, anger, force, rejection and threats are employed. The classic threat is "you will loose your soul" if you don't listen me, spoken in different ways. Implied, suggested or said outright, the end result is the same, intimidation and fear.

Your supposed wisdom has become your darkness. It casts too large a shadow for a mere man.

[Samie]

To save time and space, I am invoking the thread "Daniel 11" in relation to this thread. Other readers could be interested in knowing what the Master Teacher Himself told His disciples relative to end-time events in relation to the prophecies in the book of Daniel. Relevant discussions started with this link: