Butt out...

[miz3]

So when the Bible states openly and blatantly that God "HATES" the Bible is "wrong"?

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Try these texts:

1. Psalm 11:5

"The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates."

I believe this explicitly states that God hates the wicked, the wicked human entity. This alone proves you wrong.

2. Proverbs 6:16-19.

"There are six things the LORD hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies

and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers."

Let's see God hates eyes, tongue, hands, heart, feet, that do evil. In addition God hates the "human who is a false witness". The whole human person. Also, God hates the "man" who stirs up dissension with other humans.

So God indeed does HATE THE HUMAN AS A WHOLE ENTITY.

3. Jeremiah 12:8.

"My inheritance has become to me like a lion in the forest. She roars at me; therefore I hate her."

Clear Word that God hates Israel (His inheritance), THAT IS HUMANS.

4. Hosea 9:15.

"Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious."

Again, God is stating that He hates the persons of Israel. That God HATES HUMANS.

5. Malachi 1:2-3.

"I have loved you,” says the LORD.

“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” the LORD says. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."

You state that God is not talking about Esau the person. Ok, lets give you that. However, God is talking about "human people" that He hates. God is stating that He hates every man, woman, child, and little tiny baby of the Esauites. That is each individual of that group God hates. They are "individual humans".

6. Romans 9:13

"Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Let's say again for your sake that this is not talking about the very person of Esau. Ok, we give you that again. Now reread the notes on Malachi chapter one above and see again that we are still talking about God hating humans including little tiny babies and those still in the womb.

You are clearly wrong because the Bible definitively states that God does indeed hate "humans" as individuals and as groups, regardless God still hates humans.

Here are those texts that explicitly state that God is not just "agape" God is also "Hate". This is also God's Word and I take Him at His Word too when He says that He Hates human persons.

It is there in very plain and simple language.

Either you accept it or you reject it.

Originally Posted By: miz3

Basically what everything boils down to is:

God says you humans obey me and love me or I will kill and torture you in Hell.

That is God.

Whether you like it or not that is God.

Here is the Bible speaking again of how God hates.

Is the Bible wrong?

[John317]

1. Psalm 11:5

"The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates."

I believe this explicitly states that God hates the wicked, the wicked human entity. This alone proves you wrong.

If God hates the wicked in the sense that you evidently mean it, God would have hated all humanity, since the Bible teaches that in God's eyes, all humanity was wicked. Review Romans 3: 1-18. Yet the Bible also says that He loved the wicked enough to make the plan of salvation in order to save those same wicked people.

You're misunderstanding the meaning of the language. God is not a man that "hates" as humans hate. The principle foundation of God's character is that of agape/love. Love is not merely something that God does-- love is what God IS.

You need to put this in the context of verses such as John 3: 16. The wicked are a part of the world which Jesus says God loves.

Romans 9: 10-13 indicates that God doesn't love people on the basis of their goodness and it says that God also doesn't reject people because they're not good. The truth is that God loves simply because that is God's fundamental nature: GOD IS LOVE.

The very verse you quote is included in the Bible for one reason only---because God loves all the wicked. He wants them to change so that they can spend eternity with Him. That's the whole purpose of the Bible-- God is trying to reach out to the wicked. He is calling them to repentence and doesn't want them to die.

Romans 5:6-8

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. .... [8] but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

NOTE: Surely if God hates the wicked like humans hate, God would not have sent His beloved Son to die for them. Notice that Christ died for people while they were still wicked and were His enemies (v. 10).

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

NOTE: God wants ALL-- including the wicked-- to reach repentance and salvation. This can only be true if God loves the wicked but hates their wickedness.

[skyblue888]

Miz3, the Bible also states that God slew Saul. The language is that "God slew Saul and turned the kingdom over to David." 1 Chronicles 10:14.

But we know that Saul killed himself. 1 Chron.10:4.

It means that God was forced to withdraw His protecting care from him. It is in that sense that God slew Saul.

How readest thou?

sky

[jasd]

Fact is: the HS inspired that holy men of Gd wrote, “I hate...”, Gd speaking.

The texts are straightforward, upside your head direct – no tippy-toeing about the matter in a heavenly tutu.

Either those holy men of Gd were a*s over teapot when they wrote what they wrote – or Gd does, indeed, hate. It may even be that He, being Gd, hates with an intensity that is beyond our comprehending. Scary, huh?

One would only hope that He does so with great passion – rather than in a clinically detached manner. [/respectfully]

Lu 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me (“that I might see with mine own eyes”, as it were). [/italicized.jasd]

So, okay, it was Jesus Christ teaching in parable. The question obtains, did He incorporate lies into His teachings?

One facet of Gd’s character ought not necessarily negate others. One must seek harmony, a satisfactory denouement to the matter, and one might by asking, “Why?”

Like, “Why, does Gd hate Esau so?” One might imagine that Esau may have something to do with the

time of “great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matt 24:21)

A time of singular distress and suffering never before equaled, nor in times to follow!

Those who have read of calamities that have befallen and atrocities committed upon man, will be awestruck by such an unqualified disaster. Hearts failing for fear... [/me so scared]

That is a powerful reason to hate. Mebbe, powerful enough that it should cause even Gd to hate.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

1. Psalm 11:5

"The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates."

I believe this explicitly states that God hates the wicked, the wicked human entity. This alone proves you wrong.

If God hates the wicked in the sense that you evidently mean it, God would have hated all humanity, since the Bible teaches that in God's eyes, all humanity was wicked. Review Romans 3: 1-18. Yet the Bible also says that He loved the wicked enough to make the plan of salvation in order to save those same wicked people.

You're misunderstanding the meaning of the language. God is not a man that "hates" as humans hate. The principle foundation of God's character is that of agape/love. Love is not merely something that God does-- love is what God IS.

You need to put this in the context of verses such as John 3: 16. The wicked are a part of the world which Jesus says God loves.

Romans 9: 10-13 indicates that God doesn't love people on the basis of their goodness and it says that God also doesn't reject people because they're not good. The truth is that God loves simply because that is God's fundamental nature: GOD IS LOVE.

The very verse you quote is included in the Bible for one reason only---because God loves all the wicked. He wants them to change so that they can spend eternity with Him. That's the whole purpose of the Bible-- God is trying to reach out to the wicked. He is calling them to repentence and doesn't want them to die.

Romans 5:6-8

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. .... [8] but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

NOTE: Surely if God hates the wicked like humans hate, God would not have sent His beloved Son to die for them. Notice that Christ died for people while they were still wicked and were His enemies (v. 10).

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

NOTE: God wants ALL-- including the wicked-- to reach repentance and salvation. This can only be true if God loves the wicked but hates their wickedness.

I told you before that your "god" is toooooo small. For you it is an either or situation.

However, the God of the Bible which I serve can do BOTH. This is why the Bible states that with God "nothing is impossible".

The "phony god" you believe in MUST DO either or.

Psalm 11:5 is true and so are the texts that you cited. Therefore the ONLY POSSIBILITY that must exist is that God can/does the impossible by doing both.

Why do continue to make up a nonexistent god that can only do what you (a puny human) can do? That is so limited and so puny. It is soooo NOT BIBLICAL.

God out as if He is just another human with a few expanded powers. The God of the Bible is nothing like that. The God of the Bible can/does the "impossible" and is NOT JUST LIKE YOU.

[Neil D]

Has anyone defined Hate?

hate  [heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun

verb (used with object)

1.to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

2.

to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

verb (used without object)

3.to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

noun

4.intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

5.the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

Origin: before 900; Middle English hat(i)en, Old English hatian (v.); cognate with Dutch haten, Old Norse hata, Gothic hatan, German hassen

Related forms

hat·er, noun

self-hate, noun

un·hat·ed, adjective

un·hat·ing, adjective

un·hat·ing·ly, adverb

Synonyms 1. loathe, execrate; despise. Hate, abhor, detest, abominate imply feeling intense dislike or aversion toward something. Hate, the simple and general word, suggests passionate dislike and a feeling of enmity: to hate autocracy. Abhor expresses a deep-rooted horror and a sense of repugnance or complete rejection: to abhor cruelty; Nature abhors a vacuum. Detest implies intense, even vehement, dislike and antipathy, besides a sense of disdain: to detest a combination of ignorance and arrogance. Abominate expresses a strong feeling of disgust and repulsion toward something thought of as unworthy, unlucky, or the like: to abominate treachery.

Antonyms 1. love.

I told you before that your "god" is toooooo small. For you it is an either or situation.

However, the God of the Bible which I serve can do BOTH. This is why the Bible states that with God "nothing is impossible".

The "phony god" you believe in MUST DO either or.

Psalm 11:5 is true and so are the texts that you cited. Therefore the ONLY POSSIBILITY that must exist is that God can/does the impossible by doing both.

Why do continue to make up a nonexistent god that can only do what you (a puny human) can do? That is so limited and so puny. It is soooo NOT BIBLICAL.

God out as if He is just another human with a few expanded powers. The God of the Bible is nothing like that. The God of the Bible can/does the "impossible" and is NOT JUST LIKE YOU.

My God is an ALL or NOTHING God/Person...Either He is all love or He is a God that has some sort of shadow in His Charactor (See james 1:16 James 1:16-18

Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. ) and is thus, evil or as human as we understand.

My God is love, and as such a character, can not hate as defined above. The word "hate" as described in the bible is a word used by men with all thier foibles, to the best of thier abilities, as used by th Holy Spirit. It is a word that was used to explain, as best they could, that protections normally affording those who allegence was with God, have been removed. Love will protect those who love Him...Those who hate, can not and will not be protected by thier sinfulness....

[ClubV12]

Oh my, is this hateful thread still alive? :)

[jasd]

>>Oh my, is this hateful thread still alive? <<

These last two posts keep it alive

RE: definiton of hate::

NT Writ was written in Koine; so, one applies to the Greek lexicon to define hate.

It, happenstancely(?), coincides with the dictionary meaning of "hate".

Does Gd love life? Yes, He does. Well then, since there is no shadow of turning re His character - then we must assume that we will not die - the first, second, third, fourth, whatever..., death, yes? That is, Gd will not destroy anyone.

Believest thou this?

[miz3]

Has anyone defined Hate?

hate &#8194;[heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun

verb (used with object)

1.to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

2.

to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

verb (used without object)

3.to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

noun

4.intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

5.the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

Origin: before 900; Middle English hat(i)en, Old English hatian (v.); cognate with Dutch haten, Old Norse hata, Gothic hatan, German hassen

Related forms

hat·er, noun

self-hate, noun

un·hat·ed, adjective

un·hat·ing, adjective

un·hat·ing·ly, adverb

Synonyms 1. loathe, execrate; despise. Hate, abhor, detest, abominate imply feeling intense dislike or aversion toward something. Hate, the simple and general word, suggests passionate dislike and a feeling of enmity: to hate autocracy. Abhor expresses a deep-rooted horror and a sense of repugnance or complete rejection: to abhor cruelty; Nature abhors a vacuum. Detest implies intense, even vehement, dislike and antipathy, besides a sense of disdain: to detest a combination of ignorance and arrogance. Abominate expresses a strong feeling of disgust and repulsion toward something thought of as unworthy, unlucky, or the like: to abominate treachery.

Antonyms 1. love.

Originally Posted By: miz3

I told you before that your "god" is toooooo small. For you it is an either or situation.

However, the God of the Bible which I serve can do BOTH. This is why the Bible states that with God "nothing is impossible".

The "phony god" you believe in MUST DO either or.

Psalm 11:5 is true and so are the texts that you cited. Therefore the ONLY POSSIBILITY that must exist is that God can/does the impossible by doing both.

Why do continue to make up a nonexistent god that can only do what you (a puny human) can do? That is so limited and so puny. It is soooo NOT BIBLICAL.

God out as if He is just another human with a few expanded powers. The God of the Bible is nothing like that. The God of the Bible can/does the "impossible" and is NOT JUST LIKE YOU.

My God is an ALL or NOTHING God/Person...Either He is all love or He is a God that has some sort of shadow in His Charactor (See james 1:16 James 1:16-18

Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. ) and is thus, evil or as human as we understand.

My God is love, and as such a character, can not hate as defined above. The word "hate" as described in the bible is a word used by men with all thier foibles, to the best of thier abilities, as used by th Holy Spirit. It is a word that was used to explain, as best they could, that protections normally affording those who allegence was with God, have been removed. Love will protect those who love Him...Those who hate, can not and will not be protected by thier sinfulness....

Then I guess you reject the parts of the Bible that indeed say God hates.

You prefer your human logic to what the Word of God actually says.

You are free to worship an idol which you call god but it is clear that you do not worship the God of the Bible.

[miz3]

>>Oh my, is this hateful thread still alive? <<

These last two posts keep it alive

RE: definiton of hate::

NT Writ was written in Koine; so, one applies to the Greek lexicon to define hate.

It, happenstancely(?), coincides with the dictionary meaning of "hate".

Does Gd love life? Yes, He does. Well then, since there is no shadow of turning re His character - then we must assume that we will not die - the first, second, third, fourth, whatever..., death, yes? That is, Gd will not destroy anyone.

Believest thou this?

Good point!

[007]

Has anyone defined Hate?

hate &#8194;[heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun

verb (used with object)

1.to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.

2.

to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.

verb (used without object)

3.to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.

noun

4.intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.

5.the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

Origin: before 900; Middle English hat(i)en, Old English hatian (v.); cognate with Dutch haten, Old Norse hata, Gothic hatan, German hassen

Related forms

hat·er, noun

self-hate, noun

un·hat·ed, adjective

un·hat·ing, adjective

un·hat·ing·ly, adverb

Synonyms 1. loathe, execrate; despise. Hate, abhor, detest, abominate imply feeling intense dislike or aversion toward something. Hate, the simple and general word, suggests passionate dislike and a feeling of enmity: to hate autocracy. Abhor expresses a deep-rooted horror and a sense of repugnance or complete rejection: to abhor cruelty; Nature abhors a vacuum. Detest implies intense, even vehement, dislike and antipathy, besides a sense of disdain: to detest a combination of ignorance and arrogance. Abominate expresses a strong feeling of disgust and repulsion toward something thought of as unworthy, unlucky, or the like: to abominate treachery.

Antonyms 1. love.

Originally Posted By: miz3

I told you before that your "god" is toooooo small. For you it is an either or situation.

However, the God of the Bible which I serve can do BOTH. This is why the Bible states that with God "nothing is impossible".

The "phony god" you believe in MUST DO either or.

Psalm 11:5 is true and so are the texts that you cited. Therefore the ONLY POSSIBILITY that must exist is that God can/does the impossible by doing both.

Why do continue to make up a nonexistent god that can only do what you (a puny human) can do? That is so limited and so puny. It is soooo NOT BIBLICAL.

God out as if He is just another human with a few expanded powers. The God of the Bible is nothing like that. The God of the Bible can/does the "impossible" and is NOT JUST LIKE YOU.

My God is an ALL or NOTHING God/Person...Either He is all love or He is a God that has some sort of shadow in His Charactor (See james 1:16 James 1:16-18

Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. ) and is thus, evil or as human as we understand.

My God is love, and as such a character, can not hate as defined above. The word "hate" as described in the bible is a word used by men with all thier foibles, to the best of thier abilities, as used by th Holy Spirit. It is a word that was used to explain, as best they could, that protections normally affording those who allegence was with God, have been removed. Love will protect those who love Him...Those who hate, can not and will not be protected by thier sinfulness....

Unfortunately my friend you do not get to serve your god - (or more precisely your version of a god). You must either serve THE GOD or perish. We all don't get to define God in our way. I AM THAT I AM. He is His way and not how we want Him to be. How is what you say any different than erecting a god of stone or wood, such as Baal? I remember the Children of Israel didn't like what God was doing at one point and so made a golden calf they like better and worshipped that instead. I caution you in your dangerous path of defining "your god".

[Neil D]

Then I guess you reject the parts of the Bible that indeed say God hates.

You prefer your human logic to what the Word of God actually says.

You are free to worship an idol which you call god but it is clear that you do not worship the God of the Bible.

He says that His ways are not mine...nor yours...I have the ability to hate as well as to love.....

But YOU are the one that advocates the similarities of hate and love characteristics in divine being . My position advocates a God who is able to love...and who works for the salvation of a fallen human being...That's divine...That is love....Your position is one that your god hates people, aka sinners and thier sins...That's not divine...That's satanic....

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Then I guess you reject the parts of the Bible that indeed say God hates.

You prefer your human logic to what the Word of God actually says.

You are free to worship an idol which you call god but it is clear that you do not worship the God of the Bible.

He says that His ways are not mine...nor yours...I have the ability to hate as well as to love.....

But YOU are the one that advocates the similarities of hate and love characteristics in divine being . My position advocates a God who is able to love...and who works for the salvation of a fallen human being...That's divine...That is love....Your position is one that your god hates people, aka sinners and thier sins...That's not divine...That's satanic....

Then you reject the Scriptures that definitively and clearly state that God hates?

[Neil D]

Then you reject the Scriptures that definitively and clearly state that God hates?

Not so....

concider the death of Saul as described in the bible........

Which is it-

God killing him or

death by suicide?

You have to be literal in your choosing....

[Neil D]

Unfortunately my friend you do not get to serve your god - (or more precisely your version of a god). You must either serve THE GOD or perish. We all don't get to define God in our way. I AM THAT I AM. He is His way and not how we want Him to be. How is what you say any different than erecting a god of stone or wood, such as Baal? I remember the Children of Israel didn't like what God was doing at one point and so made a golden calf they like better and worshipped that instead. I caution you in your dangerous path of defining "your god".

If your god can love and hate, then whats to prevent him from being more human than divine?

Whereas, my God is Love, and works in a sinfilled world showing His DIVINE character that is love....That's divine....and not human....

PS- you need a new handle...the real 007 understood these things...

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Then you reject the Scriptures that definitively and clearly state that God hates?

Not so....

concider the death of Saul as described in the bible........

Which is it-

God killing him or

death by suicide?

You have to be literal in your choosing....

The texts I quoted are indeed to be taken literally. You cannot take them any other way.

[Neil D]

So, which is it?

Did God kill Saul or did he commit suicide?

You can't have it both ways.....

And you are wrong about the literalness of God's hate....I've already explained about his "hatred"....But, what's that to one who can not discern spiritual things...or attributes human emotion to a divine being who claims that His ways are not our ways...

[miz3]

So, which is it?

Did God kill Saul or did he commit suicide?

You can't have it both ways.....

And you are wrong about the literalness of God's hate....I've already explained about his "hatred"....But, what's that to one who can not discern spiritual things...or attributes human emotion to a divine being who claims that His ways are not our ways...

Try real hard to follow this Hamilton-beach.

"Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, 14 and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse."

1Chronicles 10:13-14.

God does not say that he won't use other instrumentalities to do His work. God simply used Saul to do the work.

Saul could have put a thousand swords into his body and God could have kept him alive. However, in this case God took Saul's own hand to do the work. Have you not read the numerous times God called other nations, pagan nations, to do His work of punishment.

Thus, your question of who killed Saul is easy, God did, no matter how many times Saul used his sword to plunge into his body. This is so because 1Chronicles says that God put Saul to death.

God sent snakes to kill the Israelites in the wilderness. God killed them, however His instrument was the snake.

Get it.

[Neil D]

So, God actually and physically killed Saul...even though it was Saul's hand that did the killing....

Therefore, God actually loves all, even the sinner..and does not hate in the sense that man hates....

Thank you...you've made my point...

[miz3]

So, God actually and physically killed Saul...even though it was Saul's hand that did the killing....

Therefore, God actually loves all, even the sinner..and does not hate in the sense that man hates....

Thank you...you've made my point...

Oh, how disillusioned thou art.

[phkrause]

So, God actually and physically killed Saul...even though it was Saul's hand that did the killing

I'm not in agreement with miz3 thinking, but that's not at all what's being said hb.

[ClubV12]

phk and others, I think hamilton-beach was being facetious in what he said about Saul. Miz3 is the one who is mistaken on this point, not HB.

Facetious statement, incorrectly taken as literal (I THINK).

"So, God actually and physically killed Saul...even though it was Saul's hand that did the killing...." HB (insert question mark after statement).

Veification of facetious statement:

"Thank you...you've made my point..." HB

Whew, that was one complicated post.

[phkrause]

phk and others, I think hamilton-beach was being facetious in what he said about Saul. Miz3 is the one who is mistaken on this point, not HB.

Facetious statement, incorrectly taken as literal (I THINK).

"So, God actually and physically killed Saul...even though it was Saul's hand that did the killing...." HB (insert question mark after statement).

Veification of facetious statement:

"Thank you...you've made my point..." HB

Whew, that was one complicated post.

Your right I didn't pick that up. But I'm still in agreement with miz on this. I just don't agree that God killed Saul. He allowed him to die is my position.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Extemporizing: Saul did fall upon his sword, but in another passage David kills an arrivng messenger because he (an Amalekite) told the story that he happened upon Saul, grievously wounded, who begged Him, "Please stand beside me and kill me; for agony has seized me because my life still lingers in me..."

The Amalekite admitted to acceding to Saul's wish; whereupon, David killed the Amalekite.

It was the Amalekite who killed Saul.

An interesting sidebar arises in that: hadn't Saul been commanded by the prophet Samuel to kill every last man, woman, child, and animal of the Amalekites. One wonders just how efficiently Saul went about fulfilling the command...