skyblue888 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 miz3, we must differenciate between hatred and prophecy. If we were to follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion we would have no choice but to agree with you that the book of revelation is a book of hatred because that book like the book of Daniel warns about the beast and its image which happens to be the papacy and apostate protestantism. These statements have not one thread of hate in them. On the contrary these warnings from God are the breathing of unutterable love, telling us what to expect and how to escape from the deceptions of Satan. It is not against flesh and blood that we are at war with but with principalities, against evil spirits in high places. "All of His promises, His warnings, are but the breathing of unutterable love." E.G. White, Steps to Christ, bottom of page 35. sky I respectfully disagree. The Book of Revelation is indeed a Book of Hatred. The question is what does the Book of Revelation hate? Does the Book of Revelation hate the RCC/Pope? or Does the Book of Revelation hate something else? Reread the Book of Revelation it is filled with hatred and states so explicitly. For example: "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Revelation 2:6. I would say that is quite clear and a certainty that God hates and the Book of Revelation is filled with hatred toward somethings. God hates evil practices but He does not hate the sinner. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Quote: God hates evil practices but He does not hate the sinner. sky Where in the Bible does it say this? Not a Biblical principle. Quote
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 God said in Revelation which I quoted to you already that God hates the Nicolaitans. The Bible does not say that God hated their practices, their beliefs, etc. It EXPLICITLY STATES that God hated the person of the Nicolaitans as in "I hate the Nicolaitans". Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 It is the doctrines of the Nicolaitans that He hates. Rev.2:6 simply says that the church at Ephesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans and God said, "which I also hate," not the Nicolaitans themselves but their deeds. Nico means to dominate and laitans means laity. To rule over the laity in the church. They were lording it over God's heritage, taking the place of Christ in the church. This God hates. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted October 10, 2011 Moderators Posted October 10, 2011 God said in Revelation which I quoted to you already that God hates the Nicolaitans. The Bible does not say that God hated their practices, their beliefs, etc. It EXPLICITLY STATES that God hated the person of the Nicolaitans as in "I hate the Nicolaitans". This is false. You're misquoting Scripture. Rev. 2: 6 says, Quote: Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. Jesus there says that He hates the deeds of the Nicolaitans. Didn't Jesus shed His blood for the Nicolaitans, too? Aren't they included among those who God loves according to John 3: 16? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 10, 2011 Moderators Posted October 10, 2011 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 10, 2011 Moderators Posted October 10, 2011 It EXPLICITLY STATES that God hated the person of the Nicolaitans as in "I hate the Nicolaitans". Did you read the text before you said this? What translation did you read? All the translations I know of show that Jesus is saying that he hates the deeds of the Nicolaitans. I notice you even quoted it in one of your previous posts: "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Revelation 2:6. So it seems strange to me that you would then claim that the texts says "I hate the Nicolaitans." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
ClubV12 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Like I said earlier, your looking for "hate" you will find it. Quote
Members phkrause Posted October 10, 2011 Members Posted October 10, 2011 The Book of Revelation is not about hatred, its a book of the Revelation of Jesus' love for us. Revelation 1:1-3 This is the revelation which God gave to Yeshua the Messiah, so that he could show his servants what must happen very soon. He communicated it by sending his angel to his servant Yochanan, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah, as much as he saw. Blessed are the reader and hearers of the words of prophecy, provided they obey the things written in it! For the time is near! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
jasd Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 >>Even when those Puritans escaping religious intolerance got HERE, one of the first things they did was pass Sunday worship laws on pain of death for those who did not follow them!<< Yes, strange, what their Covenanting with Gd yielded. >>Well, bless their hearts, they meant well, and quickly learned the irony of what they had done. BUT, just goes to show, old habits die hard. Ahhh, indeed, the great Mandala. The ways of Gd are past finding out... [/sigh] Quote
jasd Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 Quote: Quote:miz3So indeed when I state that SDA and their prophet hate the RCC/Pope... Truly, the alpha.Org of attack .orgs. One is put to mind: YLT Js 3:5 so also the tongue is a little member, and doth boast greatly; lo, a little fire how much wood it doth kindle! ...and thinks that perhaps “a little member” is metaphoric, as well. Or given the following quote: Quote: Quote:skyblue888the beast and its image which happens to be the papacy and apostate protestantism. one is also put to mind the ninth commandment of the Decalogue. But then, one may be forgiven excess when parsing Writ; however, there remains – pondering upon matters of the heart... Quote
miz3 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 It is the doctrines of the Nicolaitans that He hates. Rev.2:6 simply says that the church at Ephesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans and God said, "which I also hate," not the Nicolaitans themselves but their deeds. Nico means to dominate and laitans means laity. To rule over the laity in the church. They were lording it over God's heritage, taking the place of Christ in the church. This God hates. sky Revelation says nothing about the "doctrines" of the Nicolaitans. God hates the Nicolaitans. That is what Revelation says. Quote
miz3 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 It is the doctrines of the Nicolaitans that He hates. Rev.2:6 simply says that the church at Ephesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans and God said, "which I also hate," not the Nicolaitans themselves but their deeds. Nico means to dominate and laitans means laity. To rule over the laity in the church. They were lording it over God's heritage, taking the place of Christ in the church. This God hates. sky Revelation says nothing about the "doctrines" of the Nicolaitans. God hates the Nicolaitans. That is what Revelation says. Here is the text in black and white. OK its in blue and white. "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Revelation 2:6. In this particular case I stand corrected. You are correct sky. Quote
miz3 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 In the larger picture the Book of Revelation is filled with "hate" and it is also filled with "love". God does indeed have hatred for particular individuals. Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 What happens when one keeps repeating a lie? Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Guest Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 What happens when one keeps repeating a lie? He becomes a bigger liar than he was before? Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 If you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth to you. Right? sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
ClubV12 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Oh,,, so THATS what happened, he actually believes this stuff! Quote
jasd Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 >>If you repeat a lie enough times it becomes the truth to you.<< I’ve recently seen upon these threads the following charge “Lord God the Pope” referenced as the writings of one ‘purported’... Quote: Quote: The title "Lord God the Pope" is found within a gloss of Extravagantes of Pope John XXII, title 14, chapter 4 In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words, "Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam" (Our Lord God the Pope) can be found in column 153. In a Paris edition, they are found in column 140. False... “The problem here is, this argument only relies on an edition of the Extravagantes. Why not look at the original version in the Vatican? Plus, that remark is attributed, not to Pope John XXII, but to the Canonist Zenzelinus, in his commentary on Title XIV of the ‘Extravagantes.’ But an examination of the original manuscript of Zenzelinus, preserved in the Vatican Library, failed to reveal the words attributed to him; and it has been definitely proved that the reference to God is an interpolation* in later copies of his commentary.” Witness. *Interpolation: an alteration or corruption inserted [as into a text] of new or foreign matter. Quote
Lysimachus Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Miz3, wow. You've got it BAAAAADDD *has a sneezing attack* Quote ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf
miz3 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Miz3, wow. You've got it BAAAAADDD *has a sneezing attack* I love it when you guys go crazy. It demonstrates your lack of substantive argument and a great lack of truth. If you had substance and truth you would cite it but no you have no substance and truth so you stoop calling me a liar and a believer in lies. That is real cogent. I am also pleased that those many who listen and watch but do not post see all of your name calling and persecution instead of having the truth. Way to advertize for the SDA. Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 jasd, interesting point about that particular quote. All though I have no idea of the circumstances around it, where it was used, why, if it means much one way or the other. But I say, "interesting" because it reminds me of how Ellen White and her "team of consultants and editors" approached the 1911 edition of the Great Controversy. One of the goals was to remove or reword any passages referrencing specific historic events that could not be independantly verifed with actual historic writings (other documents, books, encyclopedias, etc.). This was done to minimize or eliminate those who would point out such errors, errors as they saw them, and conclude the book itself was largely error. When Ellen White had a divine revelation, vision/dream, at times not every little detail is spelled out as to who, what, when, where events occured in exacting detail. Many times that was the case, but not always. The "details" of history while in vision/dreams are less important than the message itself. It was often left to her and her assistants to fill in any pertinent historic details. "We", Seventh-day Adventists, would do well to follow that lead, speak only of historic details which can be easily verified by any scholar. However, where she DOES list specific details of history that are NOT or cannot be verified, or are even opposed by historic referrences, I'll take Ellen Whites words over history books. Not all history is 100% accurate after all. Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Yes miz3, we all see your constant barrage of name calling and it's clear you have a major "persecution complex" you carry around like a badge of honor. The more your errors are pointed out, the more your persecution complex grows. Pharoah was like that, the more "he was persecuted", the more he hardened his heart. God didn't literally harden his heart, God brought the plagues to get his attention. That basic truth still works the same way today. The more "persecuted" one feels, the more adamant they become in their position. At some point it is no longer a search for truth, with a sincere heart, it becomes an "argument" that must be won, by any means necessary. One's heart becomes hardened, the conscience (as Paul put it) becomes seared. As it concerns those around Ellen White who had divine revelations, you would no doubt "argue the point". As you don't accept Ellen White as a true prophet, how could you possibly accept anyone else around her? Though one was raised from the dead, you would still not believe. Quote
miz3 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Yes miz3, we all see your constant barrage of name calling and it's clear you have a major "persecution complex" you carry around like a badge of honor. The more your errors are pointed out, the more your persecution complex grows. Pharoah was like that, the more "he was persecuted", the more he hardened his heart. God didn't literally harden his heart, God brought the plagues to get his attention. That basic truth still works the same way today. The more "persecuted" one feels, the more adamant they become in their position. At some point it is no longer a search for truth, with a sincere heart, it becomes an "argument" that must be won, by any means necessary. One's heart becomes hardened, the conscience (as Paul put it) becomes seared. As it concerns those around Ellen White who had divine revelations, you would no doubt "argue the point". As you don't accept Ellen White as a true prophet, how could you possibly accept anyone else around her? Though one was raised from the dead, you would still not believe. You are afraid to name those "others" around Ellen White who were given "prophetic utterances" because many even on your side would not agree with your fanaticism. That is why you will not publicly name them here on the forum. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 12, 2011 Moderators Posted October 12, 2011 ...You are afraid to name those "others" around Ellen White who were given "prophetic utterances" because many even on your side would not agree with your fanaticism. That is why you will not publicly name them here on the forum. Who are you referring to-- the "others" around Ellen White who were given "prophetic utterances"? Do you believe those "others" were genuine prophets of God? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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