Neil D Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 When was the "war won"? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
skyblue888 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 miz3, I suggest you read the first chapter of Patriarchs and Prophets and the last chapters of the Desire of Ages beginning with Calvary. These chapters will be worth your time. sky :) Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Moderators John317 Posted October 8, 2011 Moderators Posted October 8, 2011 Of course Satan cannot win. The war is already won. Satan is a defeated foe... Originally Posted By: miz3 When was the "war won"? When Christ died and was raised from the grave. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted October 8, 2011 Moderators Posted October 8, 2011 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
skyblue888 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 When on the cross Jesus said, "It is finished" the war was over as far as the angels and the inhabitants of the other worlds were concerned even though there were still questions in their minds that remained to be answered but the war was certainly not over as far as the inhabitants of this world were concerned. By crucifying Christ Satan had signed his death warrant and yet he could still continue to deceive the inhabitants of this earth. But the Loud cry will expose all his lies and many will be converted to Christ but only at the time of the drying up of the river Euphrates (sixth plague) the drying up of all the support that he had been getting from all nations, will he be completely defeated as far as this earth is concerned. He will come to his end and none shall help him then. Dan.11:45; Rev.17:15,16. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
ClubV12 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 As I understand it the plagues (seven total) don't start until AFTER probation has closed. When Jesus stands up, removes His priestly robes and put's on His robes of wrath. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted October 8, 2011 Moderators Posted October 8, 2011 When on the cross Jesus said, "It is finished" the war was over as far as the angels and the inhabitants of the other worlds were concerned even though there were still questions in their minds that remained to be answered but the war was certainly not over as far as the inhabitants of this world were concerned. Very true, sky. There are still serious battles being fought on this earth, battles over human minds-- deciding who they will serve and worship, whether God or Satan. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
skyblue888 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Exactly John. It is a marvel that some should even question this. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
miz3 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 It wansn't me who said that Club. : miz said: Then tell why SDA and their prophet Ellen White use such warlike and vicious language in regard to the RCC/Pope? Mrs. White did not use warlike and vicious language in regard to the RCC/Pope. How could she have in the light of the following statement: "God has jewels in all the churches, and it is not for us to make sweeping denunciations of the professed religious world, but in humility and love, present to all the truth as it is in Jesus. Let them see piety and devotion, let them behold Christlikeness of character, and they will be drawn to the truth." RH Jan.17, 1893. sky You had better reread the "The Great Controversy" again, and again. She is very clearly warlike and vicious in her portrayals of the RCC/Pope. Quote
miz3 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 When was the "war won"? Hey, I can answer this.... Remember Christ's words- "It is finished." They were uttered at the cross.... Originally Posted By: miz3 Where in the Bible does it say that satan thought he could win at the cross? Our understanding is that Satan thought that he could become a ruler over all humanity. See Isa 14 and Ezekial 28 references Quote: Then tell why SDA and their prophet Ellen White use such warlike and vicious language in regard to the RCC/Pope? Such language and attitudes are NOT for just pointing out wrongness. I am not aware of which references you are refering to. I know that EGW was pretty harsh on the concept that the RCC system of worship had suplanted the Christian system. As such, it was the wrong system to follow. I will say that there are many within the Church who are rather brutally hard on the RCC/Pope...but like many who overstate thier case, it comes across harder than it needs to be... 1. Hamilton-beach you are correct. That means the war was won before the foundation of the earth (see Revelation 13:8). 2. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are saying satan thinks he can win. They are stating what he wants to become. There is a big difference between "ambition/desire" and "whether you think you can actually do it". Besides those texts are not talking about ruling humanity they are talking about ruling God. 3. You need to reread the "The Great Controversy". Ellen White is quite brutal in her portrayals of the RCC/Pope. The Pope as a person is the RCC system. The "system" as you put it is not and cannot be separated from the RCC/Pope. Just ask any Catholic Priest. It is not as if the RCC/Pope is/are ignorant as individuals of the system. They are as complicit as Hitler was to Naziism. We don't separate Hitler from Naziism nor can we separate RCC/Pope from the "system". We act like the "system" is some cold humanless entity. This typical SDA tap-dancin' in order to avoid the consequences of their actual hatred of the RCC/Pope. Come on now let's actually be honest about SDA and their hatred of the RCC/Pope. Quote
miz3 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: skyblue888 When on the cross Jesus said, "It is finished" the war was over as far as the angels and the inhabitants of the other worlds were concerned even though there were still questions in their minds that remained to be answered but the war was certainly not over as far as the inhabitants of this world were concerned. Very true, sky. There are still serious battles being fought on this earth, battles over human minds-- deciding who they will serve and worship, whether God or Satan. Like I told hamilton-beach the war was over before the creation of the world, see Revelation 13:8. Something about "the lamb" slain before the world was made. That means God didn't wait till the Cross because it was already a done deal. Quote
Guest Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 You had better reread the "The Great Controversy" again, and again. She is very clearly warlike and vicious in her portrayals of the RCC/Pope. False! Don't just say it, give an example of it Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 In church this morning we sang a hymn about the blood of Jesus. I was wondering how someone who was not in tune with the Lord might interpret that. You will find what your looking for, what you WANT to see, whether it be in the bible, or a book or a song. If your determined to find hate, war, savage imagery you will find it. I never really saw righteouness by faith that much, until I understood it, NOW I see it everywhere! :) Quote
Neil D Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 1. Hamilton-beach you are correct. That means the war was won before the foundation of the earth (see Revelation 13:8). Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
jasd Posted October 10, 2011 Author Posted October 10, 2011 >>This typical SDA tap-dancin' in order to avoid the consequences of their actual hatred of the RCC/Pope. Come on now let's actually be honest about SDA and their hatred of the RCC/Pope.<< Though “tap-dancin’", as utilized, sounds spot-on – it may be unseemly to so directly term as "hatred" the SDA’s averment of all things RCC. I mean, c’mon... “Your mama!” oops, I mean, “Your Papa!” Wha’s that? No big thing, eh? The qualifier quickly follows, “Not you, you're an individual jewel unfortunately situated in the RCC matrix..." "Your Papa!" Umm, I think that defines maladroitness, yes? Yeah, “We loves yah, yah individual jewels in situ within the system.” The outsider disassociating truths from ‘The Truth’ – I guess. Lest one forgets: there is not one text in Writ, which indicates that Gd ever gave the Southern Kingdom of Judah a Bill of Divorcement– the same Kingdom that had so left-off worshipping Gd that they sacrificed their children to demons. That ‘reads’ – demon worship. The RCCs did much that one may consider wicked, but they never made a practice of worshipping demons. And by the way, it was not only Catholic persecution but Protestant persecution as well, which forced the Puritans and other like-minded to flee to the New World. Protestors ‘gave as good as they got...’ Misericordia, indeed. Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Even when those Puritans escaping religious intolerance got HERE, one of the first things they did was pass Sunday worship laws on pain of death for those who did not follow them! Well, bless their hearts, they meant well, and quickly learned the irony of what they had done. BUT, just goes to show, old habits die hard. Quote
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 You had better reread the "The Great Controversy" again, and again. She is very clearly warlike and vicious in her portrayals of the RCC/Pope. False! Don't just say it, give an example of it Here is "one" more mild example. "God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. {GC 581.2}" Clearly intended to whip up hatred and great fear of the RCC/Pope. Such statements are not made about things you are not at war with. Ellen White is clearly at war with the RCC/Pope that is why she wants to whip up hatred and fear of the RCC/Pope. Quote
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Another quote intended whip up hatred and fear of the RCC/Pope. In fact Ellen White clearly wants us to be in "warlike" opposition to any advances along this line. "But when Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshiping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome—“the mark of the beast.” And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive “the mark of the beast.” {GC 449.1}" Quote
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Here is more. This from the RCC/Pope which feels the sting of SDA hatred. "Adventist Anti-Catholicism As is clear from some of the beliefs listed above, Adventist theology is intensely anti-Catholic. Many Catholics who do not frequently come in contact with Adventists or their literature do not realize just how hostile they can be toward the Church. Trying to give others the benefit of the doubt, Catholics may suppose that anti-Catholicism is part of Adventism’s radical fringe. Unfortunately, this is untrue. Adventists who are moderate on Catholicism are a minority. Anti-Catholicism characterizes the denomination because it is embraced in White’s "divinely inspired" writings. A few illustrations help indicate the scope of the problem: "Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots . . . is further declared to be ‘that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.’ Revelation 17:4–6, 18. The power that for so many centuries maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom is Rome. The purple and scarlet color, the gold and precious stones and pearls, vividly picture the magnificence and more than kingly pomp affected by the haughty see of Rome" (The Great Controversy, 338). "It is one of the leading doctrines of Romanism that the pope is the visible head of the universal Church of Christ . . . and has been declared infallible. He demands the homage of all men. The same claim urged by Satan in the wilderness of temptation is still urged by him [satan] through the Church of Rome, and vast numbers are ready to yield him homage" (ibid., 48). "Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage in their acceptance of the false Sabbath. . . . And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And has she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. . . . Rome is aiming to reestablish her power, to recover her lost supremacy" (ibid., 507–8). "God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures, in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be1 repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution" ( ibid., 508–9). Strong stuff! Unfortunately, most Adventists believe this. Bear in mind that these quotes are not taken from an obscure work of White’s that nobody ever reads. They are from what is probably her single most popular volume, The Great Controversy." NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004 IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827 permission to publish this work is hereby granted. +Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004 Catholic Answers, 2020 Gillespie Way, El Cajon, CA 92020 USA Main: 619-387-7200 | Fax: 619-387-0042 U.S. Orders: 888-291-8000 | Non-U.S. Orders: 619-387-7200 Copyright © 1979-2008 Catholic Answers. All Rights Reserved. Usage outside our Permissions Guidelines requires our prior written consent. Clearly intended to whip hatred and fear. This is from your prophet Ellen White. This is undeniable proof that SDA hate and fear the RCC/Pope a fact which have denied in spite of the clear proof in writing. There is also clear proof if you ask an SDA and they are truly candid and honest with you. Even many SDA children have had actual nightmares growing up about the RCC/Pope and the persecution. So indeed when I state that SDA and their prophet hate the RCC/Pope it is TRUE, VERY TRUE! Quote
Guest Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Clearly intended to whip up hatred and great fear of the RCC/Pope. Such statements are not made about things you are not at war with. Ellen White is clearly at war with the RCC/Pope that is why she wants to whip up hatred and fear of the RCC/Pope. If she was at war with anything, it would be Satan. Not catholics. Would you like it better if she only said nice things about the doctrines of Lucifer? That would make her a liar, and put her in Satan's camp. Which would make her completely useless to God or anybody else. The only thing you have shown here, is that she was not in Satan's camp. Praise God! Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 God said it more simply, then fleshed out the details through His spokesperson. This message is not from Sister White, it is from the throne of God. Obey and live, disobey and die. Simple, straight truth. Your not helping anyone by telling them everything is going to be OK, no worries, here, have a drink! Some see the warning as war and hatred, others for what it is, a warning meant to save their life. Quote
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 Originally Posted By: miz3 Clearly intended to whip up hatred and great fear of the RCC/Pope. Such statements are not made about things you are not at war with. Ellen White is clearly at war with the RCC/Pope that is why she wants to whip up hatred and fear of the RCC/Pope. If she was at war with anything, it would be Satan. Not catholics. Would you like it better if she only said nice things about the doctrines of Lucifer? That would make her a liar, and put her in Satan's camp. Which would make her completely useless to God or anybody else. The only thing you have shown here, is that she was not in Satan's camp. Praise God! Ellen White does not reference satan in these passages but she does reference specifically the RCC/Pope. Thus, it reveals her hatred for the RCC/Pope. Not even a "good" try about the "satan" thing. It is clearly hatred of and for the RCC/Pope. Quote
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 God said it more simply, then fleshed out the details through His spokesperson. This message is not from Sister White, it is from the throne of God. Obey and live, disobey and die. Simple, straight truth. Your not helping anyone by telling them everything is going to be OK, no worries, here, have a drink! Some see the warning as war and hatred, others for what it is, a warning meant to save their life. Ellen White and you have the wrong target. The real danger is coming from somewhere else. You like the "foolish virgins" are going to miss it. Quote
skyblue888 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 miz3, we must differenciate between hatred and prophecy. If we were to follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion we would have no choice but to agree with you that the book of revelation is a book of hatred because that book like the book of Daniel warns about the beast and its image which happens to be the papacy and apostate protestantism. These statements have not one thread of hate in them. On the contrary these warnings from God are the breathing of unutterable love, telling us what to expect and how to escape from the deceptions of Satan. It is not against flesh and blood that we are at war with but with principalities, against evil spirits in high places. "All of His promises, His warnings, are but the breathing of unutterable love." E.G. White, Steps to Christ, bottom of page 35. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
miz3 Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 miz3, we must differenciate between hatred and prophecy. If we were to follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion we would have no choice but to agree with you that the book of revelation is a book of hatred because that book like the book of Daniel warns about the beast and its image which happens to be the papacy and apostate protestantism. These statements have not one thread of hate in them. On the contrary these warnings from God are the breathing of unutterable love, telling us what to expect and how to escape from the deceptions of Satan. It is not against flesh and blood that we are at war with but with principalities, against evil spirits in high places. "All of His promises, His warnings, are but the breathing of unutterable love." E.G. White, Steps to Christ, bottom of page 35. sky I respectfully disagree. The Book of Revelation is indeed a Book of Hatred. The question is what does the Book of Revelation hate? Does the Book of Revelation hate the RCC/Pope? or Does the Book of Revelation hate something else? Reread the Book of Revelation it is filled with hatred and states so explicitly. For example: "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." Revelation 2:6. I would say that is quite clear and a certainty that God hates and the Book of Revelation is filled with hatred toward somethings. Quote
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