Should we show an interest in the OWS movement?

[miz3]

I guess it's just about time for more deja vu from the '60's... kinda like a 50th anniversary..

The fact is, nobody NOBODY knows for certain what Jesus would do in *this* situation. He was rarely in step with a mob.

My brother happened to be in Oakland during this last protest there. He said it looked like the same-ol' same-ol' from the sit-ins we saw 50 years ago. If you get told you'll be policed, and you do it anyway, expect to be policed. (right or wrongly applied, re: Kent State)

Boy, are we ever a spectacle again for other countries! Everyone, WAVE!!!

[Bravus]

The protestors aren't the spectacle for the rest of the world, the craziness of running up massive deficits and slashing taxes for the wealthiest is the spectacle.

We saw the 'Arab Spring' in Egypt and Libya. You think there are no chickens to come home to roost in America?

[miz3]

The protestors aren't the spectacle for the rest of the world, the craziness of running up massive deficits and slashing taxes for the wealthiest is the spectacle.

We saw the 'Arab Spring' in Egypt and Libya. You think there are no chickens to come home to roost in America?

I see both the protest craziness and the massive deficit craziness as stemming from the same source of craziness. Its not the "Wealthy" (except some illegal wealthy like Madoff) that are the problem.

It is the government which tries to play the role of God that is the problem and such governments encourage the lazy and entitlement mentality that is getting more and more rampant.

Government needs to get smaller because it can never ever be God nor can it even slightly fill the role of God. We also need the individual human to take the responsibility that God gave and placed on their shoulders while living in a sinful world.

Like Ecclesiastes says, "God has placed a heavy burden on humans".

The "Arab spring" is not/never was a movement of "freedom loving people". It is a movement of radical types that want the power and they gin up the poor regular saps by promising them "freedom" but when all is said and done the poor individual will still be a slave only with a different master.

If America does not return to its Godly roots the "chickens that will hatch" will come from the vile evil of satan and sin.

For a long time now the spirit of evil has been all to successful in taking God out of every vestige of human society in America. It is this singular FACT that has led to the American decline. It has led to the fact that Americans thought they could replace God with government. It is abundantly clear that this is a failed experiment. Government cannot and never will be able to even in the slightest replace God in the public sector.

This is what happens when we take the position of "separation of church and state". This is an erroneous concept and is not founded in the Declaration of Independence nor is it founded in the First Amendment (some think it is but its not).

The "chickens of our sins" have indeed come "home to roost" but let us get the right chickens and not the wrong chickens.

[Overaged]

Occupy Wall Street, now occuring all over America AND the WORLD!

There seems to be no consensus among anyone one group, or anyone for that matter exactly WHAT their protesting. An emerging theme seem's to be forgive all student loans. Which I think is ridiculous, you borrowed the money, now pay it back (use your welfare check to fund it).

I find it curious that "no one knows who's behind it." Or "no one knows what they are protesting."

Thats a bunch of hoopla if I ever heard it. It's called media spoonfeed time.

[Overaged]

Occupy Wall Street, now occuring all over America AND the WORLD!

There seems to be no consensus among anyone one group, or anyone for that matter exactly WHAT their protesting. An emerging theme seem's to be forgive all student loans. Which I think is ridiculous, you borrowed the money, now pay it back (use your welfare check to fund it).

I must be really out of touch with all the stuff going on. I just go out the door to work every day; I have no time to listen to the pablum being spoonfed to us through Satan's News

[Overaged]

Im sorry but your post is quite laughable - there is such a parade of folks, like you, who "really" know what the problem is, and how to solve it.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The protestors aren't the spectacle for the rest of the world, the craziness of running up massive deficits and slashing taxes for the wealthiest is the spectacle.

We saw the 'Arab Spring' in Egypt and Libya. You think there are no chickens to come home to roost in America?

oh geez. I'm sorry...I forgot that I'm stupid and my opinion is not wanted here because I make people feel bad and that I don't care about anyone or anything except myself. I forgot i was goign to leav e ..... thank for remindnig me

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

The protestors aren't the spectacle for the rest of the world, the craziness of running up massive deficits and slashing taxes for the wealthiest is the spectacle.

We saw the 'Arab Spring' in Egypt and Libya. You think there are no chickens to come home to roost in America?

oh geez. I'm sorry...I forgot that I'm stupid and my opinion is not wanted here because I make people feel bad and that I don't care about anyone or anything except myself. I forgot i was goign to leav e ..... thank for remindnig me

Hey; I'm glad you are here Pam! I agree; the protesters are the spectacle here.

[Bravus]

You know what? Just leave already. If you're going to have a little self-pity-party every time someone disagrees with your opinion, a discussion forum is not the place for you. Did you fail to notice that I disagreed with almost everyone else in the thread too? That's what happens in discussions. Not belittling your opinion: taking it seriously enough to offer a counterpoint.

[Overaged]

You know what? Just leave already. If you're going to have a little self-pity-arty every time someone disagrees with your opinion, a discussion forum is not the place for you. Did you fail to notice that I disagreed with almost everyone else in the thread too? That's what happens in discussions. Not belittling your opinion: taking it seriously enough to offer a counterpoint.

Bravus; you who boast such great intelligence and self control and correct posting needs to learn the elementary lesson that you so strive to "teach others" Quit playin the BIG BOY and practice what you preach.

[Overaged]

---over the top

[John317]

OWS is somewhat chaotic, but it's basically about social justice, and that is a massive concern of Jesus and of the whole Bible.

Have a look at what the Bible says about usury, as just one example.

And about our treatment of the poor, as another.

I see OWS as coming from the Far Left, which I know they are agitating, and is an attempt to radicalize people's thinking. They actually want people to hate the rich. They call for class warfare. It works to their benefit.

Jesus called for just the opposite. He calls for His followers in this way: "Blessed are the peace-makers, for they shall see God." "Love your enemies."

Jesus never would have supported such protests as we're seeing.

The Bible is against usury, but it never calls for people to do anything like OWS.

The Bible also calls for people to work if they're able to.

2 Thes. 3:10

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

[Neil D]

A reaction against those who are rich????

Hmmmmmmmm....Occupy Wall Street is about what again????

Have any thought of why there is this "Occupy Wall Street" in the first place? Would it be because there are people in Wall street who are making a sinfully lot of money ...many times,immorally?

If I take home about 65% of my total income that is less than $50K, would it hurt if those who make more than $250k be asked to take home 65% of thier paycheck?

It would be wrong to call David Graeber a leader of the protesters, since their insistently nonhierarchical philosophy makes such a concept heretical. Nor is he a spokesman, since they have refused thus far to outline specific demands. Even in Zuccotti Park, his name isn’t widely known. But he has been one of the group’s most articulate voices, able to frame the movement’s welter of hopes and grievances within a deeper critique of the historical moment. “We are watching the beginnings of the defiant self-assertion of a new generation of Americans, a generation who are looking forward to finishing their education with no jobs, no future, but still saddled with enormous and unforgivable debt,” Graeber wrote in a Sept. 25 editorial published online by the Guardian. “Is it really surprising they would like to have a word with the financial magnates who stole their future?”

And that is what OWS is all about....

[John317]

A reaction against those who are rich????

Hmmmmmmmm....Occupy Wall Street is about what again????

Have any thought of why there is this "Occupy Wall Street" in the first place? Would it be because there are people in Wall street who are making a sinfully lot of money ...many times,immorally?

Our country was built on capitalism. There will always be the wealthy and the poor.

It is the Devil who wants people to be envious and hate the rich.

He is the one who stirs up people to be angry at the wealthy and to want to take their money.

I came out of the socialist movement of the 1960s and 70s. Believe me, these protests and demonstrations are not spontaneous. They are planned by socialists, communists, and anarchists.

Check out my photographs of the socialist demonstrations in Denver in August of 2008.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/galleries/388322/Ron_Corvic.html

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...D.html#comments

[John317]

A reaction against those who are rich????

Hmmmmmmmm....Occupy Wall Street is about what again????

Many of the same people that were in Denver are in New York agitating people against the upper classes. A lot of those people are professional protestors. They want the police and the government to look bad.

But here's the Bible's teaching:

James 5:1-8

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. [2] Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. [3] Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. [4] Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. [5] You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. [6] You have condemned; you have murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.

[7] Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. [8] You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

The Bible urges us to be patient until the coming of the Lord, not to take things into our hands and make protests, etc. Those verses are telling us that the Lord's coming is the only real solution to the problems of the world.

We need to do what God has revealed so that He can send Christ to take us home with Him.

The Devil would love to get SDAs involved in the things of this world, such as demonstrations and protests. That would only help to divide the church. If we do that, the church can't proclaim the Three Angels Messages so that people from all walks of life-- both rich and poor-- will be prepared for Christ's coming.

[bonnie]

I guess it's just about time for more deja vu from the '60's... kinda like a 50th anniversary..

The fact is, nobody NOBODY knows for certain what Jesus would do in *this* situation. He was rarely in step with a mob.

My brother happened to be in Oakland during this last protest there. He said it looked like the same-ol' same-ol' from the sit-ins we saw 50 years ago. If you get told you'll be policed, and you do it anyway, expect to be policed. (right or wrongly applied, re: Kent State)

Boy, are we ever a spectacle again for other countries! Everyone, WAVE!!!

For all that are damaging businesses in the area's of the protest,using their services for internet and bathroom facilities and generally being disrupted,put them in jail.Many businesses,those little people that this false concern is over have had business fall up to 60%

Preferably throw away the key for a good length of time.

The "poor trust fund baby" Columbia student crying "Help us"

should be a total shame to his parents and the school he attends.

The key words to this whole protest is "Give me,You Owe Me"

Social justice is a phrase used here,can someone explain what that is.

Freedom and equality are two different words and have two different meanings. If you have freedom you will not have equality.

[abelisle]

@John

"Many of the same people that were in Denver are in New York agitating people against the upper classes. A lot of those people are professional protestors. They want the police and the government to look bad."

And you know this for sure because ___________________? I live here and haven't seen or heard anything like this.

Alex

[ClubV12]

"If America does not return to its Godly roots the "chickens that will hatch" will come from the vile evil of satan and sin.....

This is what happens when we take the position of "separation of church and state". This is an erroneous concept and is not founded in the Declaration of Independence nor is it founded in the First Amendment (some think it is but its not)."

That pretty well sums up the kind of thinking that will lead to a "Back to God" peoples movement that results in National ruin when church and state combine. Many of my wealthy right wing friends want more church and state union and say it IS allowed under the Constitution. That way we can have things like prayer in school, In God we trust on our money, more pledge of allegiance, get rid of the atheists, teach creation in school and put God back in Government. In short, abandon this crazy idea of Religious Liberty, though they don't realize where this train is headed.

The OWS is actually on the same train as the wealthy right wingers and don't realize it. Spread the wealth, do the right thing, protect the poor, provide free education, it's all about a "moral delima" and a need for more spirituality.

Someday the two sides will put aside their petty differences and unite under a "For God and Country" banner as the way to save the USA.

The Spirit of Prophecy tells us the United States will not recover a moral balance. When the powers of church and state combine the image to the beast will be complete and National apostasy will follow. And the people won't even realize it, instead they will pass even harsher laws that DEMAND so called "moral values". Which is like saying, "The beatings will continue until moral is restored."

The wicked are binding themselves into bundles to be burned...

"Social justice", a misunderstanding by the masses of a moral imperative.

[miz3]

I see OWS as coming from the Far Left, which I know they are agitating, and is an attempt to radicalize people's thinking. They actually want people to hate the rich. They call for class warfare. It works to their benefit.

Jesus called for just the opposite. He calls for His followers in this way: "Blessed are the peace-makers, for they shall see God." "Love your enemies."

Jesus never would have supported such protests as we're seeing.

The Bible is against usury, but it never calls for people to do anything like OWS.

The Bible also calls for people to work if they're able to.

2 Thes. 3:10

For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

I can't believe I am doing this.

God is not against the "rich" either. In fact God actually in the Bible made people "rich". Do Job and Abraham come to mind? However, like everyone else God expects rich, poor, and in between to follow His Rules.

[miz3]

A reaction against those who are rich????

Hmmmmmmmm....Occupy Wall Street is about what again????

Have any thought of why there is this "Occupy Wall Street" in the first place? Would it be because there are people in Wall street who are making a sinfully lot of money ...many times,immorally?

If I take home about 65% of my total income that is less than $50K, would it hurt if those who make more than $250k be asked to take home 65% of thier paycheck?

It would be wrong to call David Graeber a leader of the protesters, since their insistently nonhierarchical philosophy makes such a concept heretical. Nor is he a spokesman, since they have refused thus far to outline specific demands. Even in Zuccotti Park, his name isn’t widely known. But he has been one of the group’s most articulate voices, able to frame the movement’s welter of hopes and grievances within a deeper critique of the historical moment. “We are watching the beginnings of the defiant self-assertion of a new generation of Americans, a generation who are looking forward to finishing their education with no jobs, no future, but still saddled with enormous and unforgivable debt,” Graeber wrote in a Sept. 25 editorial published online by the Guardian. “Is it really surprising they would like to have a word with the financial magnates who stole their future?”

And that is what OWS is all about....

Its not just the financial magnates (not all but some) who are selfish and greedy but their willing accomplices in Washington, the Federal Government, and its greedy bloated appetite for power and wealth with our hard earned tax dollars. These "establishment politicians" have for too long chewed up in their corrupt machines the treasure of our labor.

It is time to stop, NOW!

[Gerr]

[

But here's the Bible's teaching:

James 5:1-8

The Bible urges us to be patient until the coming of the Lord, not to take things into our hands and make protests, etc. Those verses are telling us that the Lord's coming is the only real solution to the problems of the world.

We need to do what God has revealed so that He can send Christ to take us home with Him.

John, are you saying that we shouldn't be involved in addressing injustices in this world? The very passage in James that you cited is an indictment of the ill-gotten riches of the rich. (I'm not saying all rich people acquired their riches immorally.) When it comes to religious liberty injustices, we are in the forefront, but nary a peep on social injustices, why is that?

The prophets minced no words in defending the poor, the widows, and the fatherless.

ESV | ‎Ps 146:9 The LORD watches over the sojourners; he upholds the widow and the fatherless, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin.

ESV | ‎Is 58:6 “Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? ‎7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

ESV | ‎Dt 10:18 He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing

How does God execute justice for the down and out except through people who care?

While I consider the pope's position on redistribution of wealth a ways to my left, I admire the RCC's concern for social justice.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

A reaction against those who are rich????

Hmmmmmmmm....Occupy Wall Street is about what again????

Have any thought of why there is this "Occupy Wall Street" in the first place? Would it be because there are people in Wall street who are making a sinfully lot of money ...many times,immorally?

Our country was built on capitalism. There will always be the wealthy and the poor.

It is the Devil who wants people to be envious and hate the rich.

He is the one who stirs up people to be angry at the wealthy and to want to take their money.

I came out of the socialist movement of the 1960s and 70s. Believe me, these protests and demonstrations are not spontaneous. They are planned by socialists, communists, and anarchists.

Check out my photographs of the socialist demonstrations in Denver in August of 2008.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/galleries/388322/Ron_Corvic.html

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthread...D.html#comments

Oh, Wow....!

What is happening, John317 and miz3 in perfect alignment?

This toooo much.

John317 this is actually serious and I agree with 100% on this one. By experience, and I could tell you stories, you are spot on perfect on this one.

[Overaged]

Oh, Wow....!

What is happening, John317 and miz3 in perfect alignment?

This toooo much.

John317 this is actually serious and I agree with 100% on this one. By experience, and I could tell you stories, you are spot on perfect on this one.

Whats impossible with man is possible with God. LOL

[Overaged]

John, are you saying that we shouldn't be involved in addressing injustices in this world? The very passage in James that you cited is an indictment of the ill-gotten riches of the rich.

If you are saying that to be involved in such anarchist "protests" is advisable for Christians, you are definitely wrong. Poor diagnoses Doctor...

[Gerr]

[

Its not just the financial magnates (not all but some) who are selfish and greedy but their willing accomplices in Washington, the Federal Government, and its greedy bloated appetite for power and wealth with our hard earned tax dollars. These "establishment politicians" have for too long chewed up in their corrupt machines the treasure of our labor.

It is time to stop, NOW!

Me agreeing with you? WOW!

I don't believe that the OWS are so much against the rich and their riches. My take is that they are fed up with a system that is rigged. I am convinced that Wall St. is rigged by the 1% to benefit the 1% against the 99%, abetted by those in their pockets in Washington.