Who or what is the Stone in Daniel 2?

[Alchemy]

Who or what is the Stone in Daniel 2?

Who or what is the Stone that strikes the image of Nebuchadnezzar's dream at the feet?

[Gerr]

ESV | ‎Ps 18:2 The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

ESV | ‎Mt 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

[Gibs]

Da 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

And then the Angel explains to Daniel,

Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Ron Amnsn]

The stone represents the core of a kingdom to be set up by the God of heaven that will crush the all the other kingdoms in the dream so that not a trace of them will be found.

It is cut without hands from a mountain and will become a mountain.

Comparing what Daniel says with what has been said by the rest of the prophets, it appears that the two mountains are probably Mt. Sinai (aka Horeb or the mountain of God) and Mt. Zion in Jerusalem (aka the holy mountain or the mountain of the house of YHWH).

The stone cut without hands could refer to the tablets from Mt. Sinai on which God wrote his covenant with Israel.

Isaiah 2:2 says, "Now it will come about that In the last days, The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it."

[12tribes]

2 Samuel 22:47

(47) The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

[miz3]

Da 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

And then the Angel explains to Daniel,

Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I agree that the Stone is the God of Heaven.

However, what "kings" is Daniel two verse forty-four talking about when it says, "in the days of these kings"?

[cheddar]

I agree that the Stone is the God of Heaven.

However, what "kings" is Daniel two verse forty-four talking about when it says, "in the days of these kings"?

Excellent question! – seeing how the kings of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome have all been dead for thousands of years.

I personally believe that the metals of the great image represent Satan and his fallen angels and the clay represents mankind. So the verse that says ‘they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men and shall not cleave together’ makes more sense because fallen angels and human beings are completely different and angels are much stronger than humans which is what the verse says also.

I’m sure that historicists will reject these ideas but that’s ok - their conclusions have more holes than swiss cheese.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: miz3

I agree that the Stone is the God of Heaven.

However, what "kings" is Daniel two verse forty-four talking about when it says, "in the days of these kings"?

Excellent question! – seeing how the kings of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome have all been dead for thousands of years.

I personally believe that the metals of the great image represent Satan and his fallen angels and the clay represents mankind. So the verse that says ‘they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men and shall not cleave together’ makes more sense because fallen angels and human beings are completely different and angels are much stronger than humans which is what the verse says also.

I’m sure that historicists will reject these ideas but that’s ok - their conclusions have more holes than swiss cheese.

The stone is a new Kingdom of Heaven since Israel became toast (Matt. 21:43). Right now this KOH is the Adventists as found in Matt. 25:1-13. It was cut out with out human hands--and is from God.

[Twilight II]

The Stone is the reformation and subsequent protestant movement, culminating in the Adventist Movement.

Notice the stone hits the "feet", the toes still remain after the initial impact...

[Bert]

The 'rock' that is hewn out of the mountain and crushes the feet and the image is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ...the Rock. All of the occurrences that symbolizes each segment of the image...from the head of gold to the ten toes of iron and clay...occurred chronologically. We live in the era of the 'ten toes', which represents the 'ten kingdoms' that initially came into existence after the break-up of the pagan Roman Empire. It is interesting that the kingdoms represented in this great image are duplicated by the symbolic animals of Daniel 7, with the 'ten horns' of the fourth beast that parallels the 'ten toes' of the great image.

Daniel 2:43, which reads, "......... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay" is a reference to the mixing of the people from the 'ten kingdoms' symbolized by the 'ten toes', and that they will never 'cleave together' as a single entity, or kingdom. As of today, that has not happened, and it will not happen. Rome was the last kingdom to rule the known world. Many other nations have attempted to conquer the world, but none have succeeded...and none will.

[cheddar]

The chronological understanding does not fit with the details that are given in Dan. chap. 2. When the rock strikes the feet of iron and clay they are destroyed along with the brass, silver and gold. The historical kingdoms of iron, brass, silver and gold no longer exist in our day so they will definitely not exist at the second coming. Details are given for a reason. We need to change our understanding to fit what the verse says not change the verse to fit our understanding.

Also Daniel identified the head of gold as Nebuchadnezzar not Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar is a type of Satan (Isa. 14). Daniel clearly says in verse 28 that the God of heaven has made known to the king what shall happen in the latter days – meaning that the dream was meant for the people of the last days not for the time that it was given.

One final thought that shows that the metals represent angels is found in Dan. chap. 10. the angel Gabriel is in a battle with the prince of Persia for 21 days. If Gabriel were fighting against the literal prince of Persia the battle would have lasted for one second and the angel would have won. Angels fight against other angels so the prince of Persia and prince of Grecia are two of Satan’s angels. Michael is also identified as a prince and we know that he is not a country or kingdom so the other prince’s are not kingdoms either.

[Twilight II]

The 'rock' that is hewn out of the mountain and crushes the feet and the image is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ...the Rock. All of the occurrences that symbolizes each segment of the image...from the head of gold to the ten toes of iron and clay...occurred chronologically. We live in the era of the 'ten toes', which represents the 'ten kingdoms' that initially came into existence after the break-up of the pagan Roman Empire. It is interesting that the kingdoms represented in this great image are duplicated by the symbolic animals of Daniel 7, with the 'ten horns' of the fourth beast that parallels the 'ten toes' of the great image.

Daniel 2:43, which reads, "......... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay" is a reference to the mixing of the people from the 'ten kingdoms' symbolized by the 'ten toes', and that they will never 'cleave together' as a single entity, or kingdom. As of today, that has not happened, and it will not happen. Rome was the last kingdom to rule the known world. Many other nations have attempted to conquer the world, but none have succeeded...and none will.

The Rock is the Kingdom.

The Kingdom is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit and Righteousness by Faith came to light once again in the reformation.

It is this teaching that ultimately destroys the pagan beast.

[Twilight II]

The 'rock' that is hewn out of the mountain and crushes the feet and the image is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ...the Rock. All of the occurrences that symbolizes each segment of the image...from the head of gold to the ten toes of iron and clay...occurred chronologically. We live in the era of the 'ten toes', which represents the 'ten kingdoms' that initially came into existence after the break-up of the pagan Roman Empire. It is interesting that the kingdoms represented in this great image are duplicated by the symbolic animals of Daniel 7, with the 'ten horns' of the fourth beast that parallels the 'ten toes' of the great image.

Daniel 2:43, which reads, "......... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay" is a reference to the mixing of the people from the 'ten kingdoms' symbolized by the 'ten toes', and that they will never 'cleave together' as a single entity, or kingdom. As of today, that has not happened, and it will not happen. Rome was the last kingdom to rule the known world. Many other nations have attempted to conquer the world, but none have succeeded...and none will.

The Rock is the Kingdom.

The Kingdom is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit and Righteousness by Faith came to light once again in the reformation.

It is this teaching that ultimately destroys the pagan beast.

And it concludes with the second coming of Christ.

This is the conclusion we come to if we let the Bible interpret itself.

But it does challange the accepted views.

[miz3]

The 'rock' that is hewn out of the mountain and crushes the feet and the image is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ...the Rock. All of the occurrences that symbolizes each segment of the image...from the head of gold to the ten toes of iron and clay...occurred chronologically. We live in the era of the 'ten toes', which represents the 'ten kingdoms' that initially came into existence after the break-up of the pagan Roman Empire. It is interesting that the kingdoms represented in this great image are duplicated by the symbolic animals of Daniel 7, with the 'ten horns' of the fourth beast that parallels the 'ten toes' of the great image.

Daniel 2:43, which reads, "......... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay" is a reference to the mixing of the people from the 'ten kingdoms' symbolized by the 'ten toes', and that they will never 'cleave together' as a single entity, or kingdom. As of today, that has not happened, and it will not happen. Rome was the last kingdom to rule the known world. Many other nations have attempted to conquer the world, but none have succeeded...and none will.

The Rock out of the mountain that crushes everything is indeed Jesus Christ.

The problem is that it does not represent the Second Coming but it actually represents the FIRST COMING of Jesus Christ as a babe in Bethlehem. It was the Cross that smashed every kingdom and caused Jesus to say that "He had overcome the world".

Second we are not living in the "ten toes" period that period is long gone in ancient past before the birth of Jesus Christ.

[Bert]

The head of gold of the great image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream represents a kingdom, not an individual, as does the rest of the symbolic metals. The kingdom of Babylon existed beyond the death of Nebuchadnezzar until it was conquered by the Medes and Persians...the arms and breast of silver.

Daniel 2:37 says, "Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory." Notice that God had given Nebuchadnezzar a 'kingdom' as well as other attributes. In the following verse, it says that God made Nebuchadnezzar 'ruler over all', thus he represents the kingdom of Babylon. The fact that it represents a kingdom is confirmed in verses 39 and 40. Verse 39 says, "And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth." Notice that it says that 'another kingdom' will follow each succeeding kingdom, and in verse 40, it says "And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron..........." So the order of kingdoms from the head to the toes are: (1) Babylon, (2) Medes/Persians, (3) Grecia, (4) Rome, followed by the ten toes that represent those kingdoms, or nations, that came into existence at the demise of the Roman Empire.

These nations still exist, but not as world kingdoms of power, and their people still exist. Babylon is now Iraq, Iran is the old Persia, and of course, Grecia is the Greece of today, and Rome is Italy.

You are correct in your comment that verse 28 points to the latter days. That is the entire purpose of the dream in the first place...to point out to each succeeding power that their period of domination as a power is temporal, and that the final conclusion is the coming of Jesus Christ, the Rock as symbolized in the dream. Obviously when Christ comes, all nations, kingdoms and powers will no longer exist, and Christ's kingdom will be established on this earth after the millennial period (1000 years).

I think you have completely misconstrued the interpretation of Daniel 10. Daniel 10 recounts the encounter of Daniel with Gabriel as the angel Gabriel explains what will occur in the latter days. It is not a battle with another angel. The explanation by Gabriel in verse 13 to Daniel was to explain why it took so long for him to respond to the prayers and fasting by Daniel that is contained in Chapter 9 that took three weeks. The discourse with Persia by Gabriel is not explained, other than it occurred, and that the presence of Michael was needed to resolve the problem. Michael is doctrinally considered to be Jesus Christ, and there are some scriptures that seem to indicate such.

I am not aware of heavenly angels fighting against earthly angels on this earth. I am aware of the 'casting out of heaven' of Satan and a third of the angels that followed him, but not of any confrontations here on this earth. If you can provide a text it would help to understand your belief.

[miz3]

The Second Coming will not establish Jesus Christ's Kingdom.

[Bert]

The 'Rock' that crushes the great image cannot be symbolic of Christ's first coming as a Babe, for His birth occurred during the period that the Roman Empire was in power, and remained in power for hundreds of years afterwards.

The 'ten toes' that symbolically represent the 'ten kingdoms' that arise after the demise of the Roman Empire are still in existence and are also symbolically represented by the 'ten horns (powers or kingdoms)' that come out of the head of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which sees a 'little horn' arise that 'plucks out' three of the horns.

[Alchemy]

ALCHEMY

WELL I hope this answer your question

dgrimm60

Excuse me,

But, you didn't give a response for me to look at.

I guess you may have been talking about what others have posted, but I am more interested in your personal thoughts from Scripture.

[Twilight II]

The 'Rock' that crushes the great image cannot be symbolic of Christ's first coming as a Babe, for His birth occurred during the period that the Roman Empire was in power, and remained in power for hundreds of years afterwards.

The 'ten toes' that symbolically represent the 'ten kingdoms' that arise after the demise of the Roman Empire are still in existence and are also symbolically represented by the 'ten horns (powers or kingdoms)' that come out of the head of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which sees a 'little horn' arise that 'plucks out' three of the horns.

Hi Bert. :-)

How can the 10 toes be the ten horns?

The toes are the last thing on the statue, symbolising the last part of the kingdom.

Also, at the end there are 10 toes, not 7.

If you look at revelation, there are 10 kings that come right at the very end.

If you accept the chronology of the statue, then those 10 kings are very likely the ten toes.

[Alchemy]

The chronological understanding does not fit with the details that are given in Dan. chap. 2. When the rock strikes the feet of iron and clay they are destroyed along with the brass, silver and gold. The historical kingdoms of iron, brass, silver and gold no longer exist in our day so they will definitely not exist at the second coming. Details are given for a reason. We need to change our understanding to fit what the verse says not change the verse to fit our understanding.

Also Daniel identified the head of gold as Nebuchadnezzar not Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar is a type of Satan (Isa. 14). Daniel clearly says in verse 28 that the God of heaven has made known to the king what shall happen in the latter days – meaning that the dream was meant for the people of the last days not for the time that it was given.

One final thought that shows that the metals represent angels is found in Dan. chap. 10. the angel Gabriel is in a battle with the prince of Persia for 21 days. If Gabriel were fighting against the literal prince of Persia the battle would have lasted for one second and the angel would have won. Angels fight against other angels so the prince of Persia and prince of Grecia are two of Satan’s angels. Michael is also identified as a prince and we know that he is not a country or kingdom so the other prince’s are not kingdoms either.

Wow cheddar,

The Stone strikes at the "ten toes"! But, there are still some remnants of all those other kingdoms existing until our day. As bits and pieces of that pagan worship still gets passed down to our day, these are left over from Babylon and the rest. All of these will be destroyed at the Second Coming of Jesus.

Isa. 14:4 says; that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: "How the oppressor has ceased, The golden* city ceased!" (NKJV)

Isaiah 14 clearly mentions the king and the city. Nebuchadnezzar was mentioned in Daniel 2 because he was the king at that time. The city was the capitol of the Kingdom of Babylon. So, Babylon is the right answer.

You need to follow your own advice; "Details are given for a reason. We need to change our understanding to fit what the verse says not change the verse to fit our understanding."

The Book of Daniel in chapter 7 for instance mentions Persia and Greece. Isaiah calls Cyrus by name and that the gates would be left open for him. (Isa. 45:1) The historicist understanding of prophecy is the only possible application.

[Alchemy]

The 'rock' that is hewn out of the mountain and crushes the feet and the image is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ...the Rock. All of the occurrences that symbolizes each segment of the image...from the head of gold to the ten toes of iron and clay...occurred chronologically. We live in the era of the 'ten toes', which represents the 'ten kingdoms' that initially came into existence after the break-up of the pagan Roman Empire. It is interesting that the kingdoms represented in this great image are duplicated by the symbolic animals of Daniel 7, with the 'ten horns' of the fourth beast that parallels the 'ten toes' of the great image.

Daniel 2:43, which reads, "......... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay" is a reference to the mixing of the people from the 'ten kingdoms' symbolized by the 'ten toes', and that they will never 'cleave together' as a single entity, or kingdom. As of today, that has not happened, and it will not happen. Rome was the last kingdom to rule the known world. Many other nations have attempted to conquer the world, but none have succeeded...and none will.

Excellent post, I agree completely.

[Alchemy]

The Second Coming will not establish Jesus Christ's Kingdom.

Why won't the Second Coming establish the Kingdom of Christ?

I understand there are still some details to be fulfilled over the 1000 years and such, but everything is set and nothing is going to change, right?!?

[Alchemy]

Originally Posted By: Bert

The 'Rock' that crushes the great image cannot be symbolic of Christ's first coming as a Babe, for His birth occurred during the period that the Roman Empire was in power, and remained in power for hundreds of years afterwards.

The 'ten toes' that symbolically represent the 'ten kingdoms' that arise after the demise of the Roman Empire are still in existence and are also symbolically represented by the 'ten horns (powers or kingdoms)' that come out of the head of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which sees a 'little horn' arise that 'plucks out' three of the horns.

Hi Bert. :-)

How can the 10 toes be the ten horns?

The toes are the last thing on the statue, symbolising the last part of the kingdom.

Also, at the end there are 10 toes, not 7.

If you look at revelation, there are 10 kings that come right at the very end.

If you accept the chronology of the statue, then those 10 kings are very likely the ten toes.

Twilight II wrote; "The toes are the last thing on the statue, symbolising the last part of the kingdom.

Also, at the end there are 10 toes, not 7."

As was already pointed out, three of the kingdoms were eliminated according to three horns being plucked out. I understand the number ten get used more than once and the number seven gets used more than once in speaking about kingdoms, but the chronology of the metal image fits perfectly with "all" of Scripture. Daniel gives us the answer.

Also, the toes don't represent the "last part of the kingdom", but the division of the fourth beast, Rome. That division ended in ten countries that were cut to seven about the same time the little horn came into power. By 538 A.D. the seven countries to remain had all accepted the Roman Church over paganism, and not long after that the last of the three horns to be plucked out was eliminated.

So much fits together it will take an immense amount of Biblical explanation for it to be shown wrong. I don't believe that is possible in this case.

[miz3]

The 'Rock' that crushes the great image cannot be symbolic of Christ's first coming as a Babe, for His birth occurred during the period that the Roman Empire was in power, and remained in power for hundreds of years afterwards.

The 'ten toes' that symbolically represent the 'ten kingdoms' that arise after the demise of the Roman Empire are still in existence and are also symbolically represented by the 'ten horns (powers or kingdoms)' that come out of the head of the fourth beast of Daniel 7, which sees a 'little horn' arise that 'plucks out' three of the horns.

You are wrong in your view. The legs, feet, and toes are all the Roman Empire. The ten toes do not come out of the Roman Empire as a separate entity. That is not what the Bible says in Daniel chapter two.

The Roman Empire fits perfectly with the legs, feet, and the toes. Daniel chapter two says nothing about what happens after the Roman Empire.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The Second Coming will not establish Jesus Christ's Kingdom.

Why won't the Second Coming establish the Kingdom of Christ?

I understand there are still some details to be fulfilled over the 1000 years and such, but everything is set and nothing is going to change, right?!?

1. Some details you say. There is quite a lot to be done. The thousand years of doing, that is a lot of time to settle only a few issues, the Judgement of the wicked, the burning of Lake of Fire, creating the New Earth. That seems like a lot of time and work yet before everything is the way God wants it.

No the Second Coming cannot be the establishment of the Kingdom because there is sooooo much time and sooooo much more to do.

2. Everything is "set now". The Cross "set" everything. There is no doubt about the outcome, nothing is going to change between the Cross and the Final stuff.

Thus, on both counts you are not correct.