Who or what is the Stone in Daniel 2?

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Bert

Here are the FACTs from Britannica Encyclopedia. The Roman Empire split in half in A.D. 395, becoming the eastern and the western empires. The western part suffered severe pressure from the barbarians. Rome was sacked by the Visgoths in A.D. 410, and the western empire fell to German invaders in A.D. 476, and the east continued as the Byzantine Empire until 1453, when it fell to the control of the Ottomans. The east part of the church came under the leadership of the church in Constaninople, and has remained separate to this day. The recent Popes have visited the east in recent years after hundreds of years of separation. The fall of Rome that is pertinent to the Jewish nation, the basis for the interpretation of prophecies affecting them, occurred in A.D. 476. From that point on, those tribes and groups that were under Roman rulership gathered together and formed different countries and nations that forms Europe today. Thus it fulfills the prophecies of the ten toes and the ten horns.

No matter how you stretch it, the Roman Empire no longer exists. Rome is just a city in the country of Italy now.

The Encyclopedia "whatever" holds no authority as to what Scripture actually says. In your view does this "source" trump what the Bible actually says? Does this "source" have the standing to interpret what God says in the Bible?

Maybe we should all study the Encyclopedia instead of studying the Bible to know what God wants us to know. Is that what you are advocating?

Maybe the Encyclopedia is "inspired".

What is contained in the Encyclopedia is parallel to what is in Daniel as defined by the division of the empire of Rome. In the case of your interpretation of the ten toes, you are at odds with ancient history. Prophecy provides what will happen in the future, and history is a recordation of what actually happened. When they both agree, then obviously that interpretation of prophecy is correct. When they don't agree, then one or the other is incorrect. You decide which is correct based on history.

[cheddar]

The parallel prophecy of Papal Rome does not come from Daniel 2, but from chapters 7 and 8.

But, Rome has never existed as the world power it was in the past. The Roman Empire fell from that large state it once held and was broken down through military invasions.

I agree that Daniel 2 lays down the basic framework and then the other chapters of Daniel and Revelation build on the framework with more details and different points of view.

So do you see the ten toes as being the same as the ten horns in Rev. chap. 17?

Because it says that these ten kings have received no kingdom yet and receive power one hour with the beast.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the ten toes have been around historically for 1500 years and they haven't received a kingdom yet?

Also these ten kings destroy Babylon and then are eventually destroyed by the Lamb (Jesus/2nd coming). Which goes along exactly with Dan. 2 and the stone destroying the toes and the whole image.

The breakup of Rome into the countries of Europe does not fit this at all.

[Twilight II]

I know it can be a difficult time to have a serious discussion on this board with the interjections that make little sense.

But to date, no one has answered my issue.

The statue has 10 toes not 7.

Anyone care to comment on that?

[phkrause]

I know it can be a difficult time to have a serious discussion on this board with the interjections that make little sense.

But to date, no one has answered my issue.

The statue has 10 toes not 7.

Anyone care to comment on that?

Great point Twilight, I'm curious myself, since no where does it say 7 toes!!!!!

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

I know it can be a difficult time to have a serious discussion on this board with the interjections that make little sense.

But to date, no one has answered my issue.

The statue has 10 toes not 7.

Anyone care to comment on that?

Great point Twilight, I'm curious myself, since no where does it say 7 toes!!!!!

Now do you see why I think the ten toes might be the last ten kings that rule one hour with the beast?

It is chronologically right at the end of the statue.

That 10 kings became 7 during the rise of the papacy is without question.

But the idea that those 7 kings are the ten toes defies basic logic.

But we have all been taught that since year dot. :-)

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Alchemy

The parallel prophecy of Papal Rome does not come from Daniel 2, but from chapters 7 and 8.

But, Rome has never existed as the world power it was in the past. The Roman Empire fell from that large state it once held and was broken down through military invasions.

I agree that Daniel 2 lays down the basic framework and then the other chapters of Daniel and Revelation build on the framework with more details and different points of view.

So do you see the ten toes as being the same as the ten horns in Rev. chap. 17?

Because it says that these ten kings have received no kingdom yet and receive power one hour with the beast.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the ten toes have been around historically for 1500 years and they haven't received a kingdom yet?

Also these ten kings destroy Babylon and then are eventually destroyed by the Lamb (Jesus/2nd coming). Which goes along exactly with Dan. 2 and the stone destroying the toes and the whole image.

The breakup of Rome into the countries of Europe does not fit this at all.

Hi Cheddar - Will try to answer your questions above. I have explained it once or twice somewhere in this thread.

Yes, the ten kings in Revelation 17 are parallel to the ten toes of Daniel 2 and the 10 horns in Daniel 7. The ten toes represent symbolically the powers that arise out of the break-up of the Roman Empire, which occurred around 476 A.D., and continued for years following Rome's demise. Next, the legs of iron of the great image represent symbolically the Roman Empire, from which the ten toes come from. In parallel to the great image are the four beasts of Daniel 7...a lion (Babylon), a two-sided bear (Medes and Persians), a leopard (Greece) and a fierce-looking beast with iron teeth (the Roman Empire, like the legs of iron of the great image that is also the Roman Empire), and out of the head of this beast comes ten horns that represent the same nations as the ten toes, for they both come out of the Roman Empire. With the beasts symbols, there is an additional occurence...the 'little horn' that grows up amidst the ten horns, displacing three of them. This portion of Daniel 7 is not parallel to Daniel 2 and represents the rise to power from the Roman Empire shortly after its break-up and the establishment of the horn powers.

Revelation 17 provides a description of a beast (which is not the Roman Empire, but may be identified as Satan), but centers around the 'great whore' of Rev. 17:1, who was riding on this beast. You will notice that verses 1 through 6 seem to dwell more on the 'great whore' than anything else, mentioning the beast only briefly. But then in verses 7 through 17 the angel explains the beast power. In verse 12 you will find that the angel explains the symbolism of the ten horns, which are ten kingdoms. The reason the verse says that they had not received their kingdoms yet is that when John wrote Revelation, the Roman Empire was still in the zenith of its power. It wasn't until 400-500 years after he wrote Revelation that the break-up of the Roman Empire occurred, thus he was looking at it from a futuristic point of view.

In summation, the ten toes of Daniel 2 are the same as the ten horns of Daniel 7 and the ten horns of Revelation 17. There is so much more involved in the correlation of the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation and it requires a step by step approach of study that progresses throughout history, from Daniel's time until the return of Christ, and includes the identification of the 'little horn', its powers, what it does, what it has done, what it will do, how it will do it, etc., etc.

I hope this basic short explanation answers your questions.

[Bert]

I know it can be a difficult time to have a serious discussion on this board with the interjections that make little sense.

But to date, no one has answered my issue.

The statue has 10 toes not 7.

Anyone care to comment on that?

Twilight, I have explained this 4 or 5 times in this thread, so I hope you get a chance to read this post. In Daniel 2, the ten toes prophecy that stems from the great image provides a description of the break-up of the Roman Empire, but stops at that juncture, and the next action part of the dream shows a rock (representing Christ's return) that strikes the great image, destroying it. The prophecy does not explain anything in between the break-up of the Roman Empire and the second coming of Christ.

Then in Daniel 7, another vision provides the descriptions of four beasts that replicate the four powers of the great image...Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire. The fourth beast is parallel to the fourth kingdom of the great image, and then Daniel 7 tells us that this fourth beast has ten horns that come up out of its head. These replicate the ten toes of Daniel 2. At this point, Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are exactly the same, and as I pointed out above, Daniel 2 stops at this point and goes to the 'rock' that will destroy the image. Daniel 7 proceeds further into more detail and provides a description of a 'little horn' that comes up out of the ten horns, uprooting three of them. The arising of the 'little horn' occurs after the ten toes and ten horns prophecies, and that is why there is no mention of 7 toes in Daniel 2. As you can see, there is no comparison with the ten toes after the 'little horn' arises, for Daniel 2 stopped at that juncture, whereas Daniel 7 continues on, providing more prophetic details that would transpire during the reign of the fourth beast and its ten horns and the little horn. Then in Revelation 17, you will find more detail about the little horn power. When studying all of the prophecies and their structures, you will find that they merge together perfectly.

Hope this answers your question.

[cheddar]

Now do you see why I think the ten toes might be the last ten kings that rule one hour with the beast?

It is chronologically right at the end of the statue.

That 10 kings became 7 during the rise of the papacy is without question.

But the idea that those 7 kings are the ten toes defies basic logic.

But we have all been taught that since year dot. :-)

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

Now do you see why I think the ten toes might be the last ten kings that rule one hour with the beast?

It is chronologically right at the end of the statue.

That 10 kings became 7 during the rise of the papacy is without question.

But the idea that those 7 kings are the ten toes defies basic logic.

But we have all been taught that since year dot. :-)

The three horns which are plucked up by the roots may be similiar to what happens to each beast after it is conquered. The conquered beasts still play some role although in a much diminished capacity.

Quote:

As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. Dan 7:12

You are misinterpreting what Daniel 7:12 is saying. To understand what it is saying, you need to go back a few verses...to verse 8, which addresses the 'little horn', and continues on through verse 11. When you come to verse 12, it is referring to the beast powers before the 'little horn'...Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. In verse 12, it says that 'they had their dominion taken away', a reference to their loss of power as an overpowering kingdom. The territory of Babylon was made subject to Persia, yet the subjects of Babylon were allowed to live on. Similarly, when Macedonia (Greece) conquered Persia and when Rome conquered Macedonia (Greece), the inhabitants of the conquered countries were not destroyed. With the final destruction of the little-horn power the whole world will be depopulated.

Also in Daniel the beasts appear in succession while in Revelation all 4 beasts are combined into one. So the idea that each beast is separated by hundreds or thousands of years is nonsense. In Rev. 13 the entire world worships the combined beast and that obviously hasn’t happened yet.

The beast of Revelation 17 is not a kingdom, but is identified as Satan, or the entity to which Satan gave his power and authority. If you will read Revelation 12 and 13 you find the description of a 'dragon' that has seven heads and ten horns as well. We know that the 'dragon' is Satan as given in Rev. 12:9. It is understood that the 'dragon' gave its power and authority to the beast, which makes them almost identical in their identity, so the beast really is the entity to which Satan has given authority. The beasts of Daniel are represented in Revelation by their identifying animal appearance, except the fourth beast. That is why you will find that the Beast in Revelation 13 is like 'unto a leopard' (Greece in Daniel), feet like the feet of a bear (Medo-Persia in Daniel) and the mouth of a lion (Babylon in Daniel). Notice that they are in reverse order from Daniel. In Daniel's time, he looked towards the cross, and that was the order of succession of these kingdoms, and in Revelation, John is looking back at the cross and time, so the order of succession is reversed.

It is difficult to jump into the middle of several prophecies that overlap each other without starting at the beginning and following them through their order of succession in conjunction with history.

[cheddar]

All 4 beasts are represented in Rev. 12, 13 and 17.

The beast has seven heads and ten horns.

Beasts of Daniel 7:

1st beast - 1 head no horns

2nd beast - 1 head no horns

3rd beast - 4 heads no horns

4th beast - 1 head ten horns

If we add up all the heads and horns it comes to seven heads and ten horns.

So even though the 4th beast is not mentioned by name in Revelation it is still included.

[Bert]

All 4 beasts are represented in Rev. 12, 13 and 17.

The beast has seven heads and ten horns.

Beasts of Daniel 7:

1st beast - 1 head no horns

2nd beast - 1 head no horns

3rd beast - 4 heads no horns

4th beast - 1 head ten horns

If we add up all the heads and horns it comes to seven heads and ten horns.

So even though the 4th beast is not mentioned by name in Revelation it is still included.

Cheddar, the beast of Revelation takes on a different role, but retains the characteristics of the beasts of Daniel, for Rome accepted some of the customs, arts and practices from each of the kingdoms before Rome. In Revelation, the beast is more associated with the characteristics and role of the 'little horn' in its place in history.

[cheddar]

Cheddar, the beast of Revelation takes on a different role, but retains the characteristics of the beasts of Daniel, for Rome accepted some of the customs, arts and practices from each of the kingdoms before Rome. In Revelation, the beast is more associated with the characteristics and role of the 'little horn' in its place in history.

Rome is never mentioned one time in Daniel or Revelation.

However, the king of Babyon (Isa. 14), the prince of Persia (Dan. 10) and the prince of Grecia (Dan. 10) are all identified as fallen angels.

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

I know it can be a difficult time to have a serious discussion on this board with the interjections that make little sense.

But to date, no one has answered my issue.

The statue has 10 toes not 7.

Anyone care to comment on that?

Twilight, I have explained this 4 or 5 times in this thread, so I hope you get a chance to read this post. In Daniel 2, the ten toes prophecy that stems from the great image provides a description of the break-up of the Roman Empire, but stops at that juncture, and the next action part of the dream shows a rock (representing Christ's return) that strikes the great image, destroying it. The prophecy does not explain anything in between the break-up of the Roman Empire and the second coming of Christ.

The problem with this idea Bert is a simple one.

You are arguing that this statue has a huge gap between pre 538 AD and the second coming of Christ.

That does not make much sense to me.

When this is a timeline of kingdoms "until" the coming of Christ.

This "gap theory" seems a stretch at best.

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Bert

Cheddar, the beast of Revelation takes on a different role, but retains the characteristics of the beasts of Daniel, for Rome accepted some of the customs, arts and practices from each of the kingdoms before Rome. In Revelation, the beast is more associated with the characteristics and role of the 'little horn' in its place in history.

Rome is never mentioned one time in Daniel or Revelation.

However, the king of Babyon (Isa. 14), the prince of Persia (Dan. 10) and the prince of Grecia (Dan. 10) are all identified as fallen angels.

These kings may have been under the influence of fallen angels, but fallen angels are not allowed by God to interfere in human affairs, other than being an influence on humans, on a personal basis. In the case of prophecy for these three kingdoms, they are kingdoms, not persons, whether they are human or 'fallen angels'. The period of time from the rise of Babylon as a world power until Greece is replaced by the Roman Empire as a world power in that region, is a period of hundreds of years. Thus, it is only logical that the prophecies pertain to kingdoms, not their kings. Also, you must remember that each of these kingdoms had more than one king or leader.

[Bert]

Originally Posted By: Bert

The problem with this idea Bert is a simple one.

You are arguing that this statue has a huge gap between pre 538 AD and the second coming of Christ.

That does not make much sense to me.

When this is a timeline of kingdoms "until" the coming of Christ.

This "gap theory" seems a stretch at best. [/quote']

There is no gap whatsoever, for the horn powers are still in existence, albeit by different names. They are considered to be the following:

1) Alamanni - now Germany

2) Franks - now France

3) Burgundians - now Swiss

4) Swevi - Now Portugal

5) Visgoths - now Spain

6) Lombards - Italy

7) Saxons - now England

8) Heruli - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

9) Vandals -Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

10)Ostrogoths - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

Other than the three that were prophesied to be 'plucked out' by the 'little horn', where is there a gap in the prophecy of the great image from the ten toes to the Second Coming of Christ?

[Dr. Rich]

Concerning the stone, it was to be a brand new Kingdom of the Heavens cut out without human involvment since Israel had become toast as found in Matthew 21:43. The ten nations/kingdoms are yet to be but they are now forming. The fatelly wounded head can only be the Jews because they are the ONLY religious group that lost it way of worship because of a war.

The first beast of Rev. 13 is the One Word Order, now forming. The second beast of Rev. 13 is Satan himself that has been given the keys of the abyss at the start of the last five months of the 42 months. By this time ALL who choose to follow truth and become righteous by overcoming sin have been sealed by God. The 'mark of the beast' will be given at this time and it will not have anything to do with those who have been sealed by God. So don't fret about this unless you choose to remain sinful.

What God said to Daniel in Chapter 12 verse 10, NO ONE who is now dead could have ever understood the truth concerning end time prophecy--I mean it was impossible for them to correctly understand! Why? Because it did not pertain to them. Therefore EGW's words about this are mostly fiction.

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Twilight II

There is no gap whatsoever' date=' for the horn powers are still in existence, albeit by different names. They are considered to be the following:

1) Alamanni - now Germany

2) Franks - now France

3) Burgundians - now Swiss

4) Swevi - Now Portugal

5) Visgoths - now Spain

6) Lombards - Italy

7) Saxons - now England

8) Heruli - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

9) Vandals -Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

10)Ostrogoths - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

Other than the three that were prophesied to be 'plucked out' by the 'little horn', where is there a gap in the prophecy of the great image from the ten toes to the Second Coming of Christ?

[/quote']

The toes represent the end of time.

At that time there will be ten kings not seven.

There are 10 kings in revelation 17 that rule after the 7 major periods (Babylon, Persia etc).

So the 10 toes have to be those kings.

They cannot be the 7 because there is not 7 toes, there are 10.

This is simple logic Bert.

I think the difficulty is that we have had a traditional view on the 10 toes so long, that entertaining the idea it might not be correct is very difficult...

[Bert]

The problem with this idea Bert is a simple one.

You are arguing that this statue has a huge gap between pre 538 AD and the second coming of Christ.

That does not make much sense to me.

When this is a timeline of kingdoms "until" the coming of Christ.

This "gap theory" seems a stretch at best.

There is no gap whatsoever, for the horn powers are still in existence, albeit by different names. They are considered to be the following:

1) Alamanni - now Germany

2) Franks - now France

3) Burgundians - now Swiss

4) Swevi - Now Portugal

5) Visgoths - now Spain

6) Lombards - Italy

7) Saxons - now England

8) Heruli - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

9) Vandals -Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

10)Ostrogoths - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

Other than the three that were prophesied to be 'plucked out' by the 'little horn', where is there a gap in the prophecy of the great image from the ten toes to the Second Coming of Christ?

[Bert]

Concerning the stone, it was to be a brand new Kingdom of the Heavens cut out without human involvment since Israel had become toast as found in Matthew 21:43. The ten nations/kingdoms are yet to be but they are now forming.

From what Roman Empire in this day and age will these ten nations/kingdoms come from? And where is this empire located today?

The fatelly wounded head can only be the Jews because they are the ONLY religious group that lost it way of worship because of a war.

The fatal wound to the head cannot be the Jews, for the fatal wound pertains to the 'little horn' power, the papacy in 1798, when the Pope was taken prisoner by Gen. Berthier of France, and the Vatican was closed, and remained closed until 1929, when Mussolini returned it to the Roman Catholic Church.

The first beast of Rev. 13 is the One Word Order, now forming.

The first beast is the power that supports and establishes the 'little horn' power...the papacy.

The second beast of Rev. 13 is Satan himself that has been given the keys of the abyss at the start of the last five months of the 42 months.

The second beast is considered to represent the United States, for it arises out of the earth, rather than the sea. The sea, or waters, represent populated areas (see Rev. 17:15). The earth is the opposite...an unpopulated area. The 42 month prophecy is the same as the 1260 day/year prophecy, and the time, times and a half time (360, 720 and 180 = 1260) prophecy.

By this time ALL who choose to follow truth and become righteous by overcoming sin have been sealed by God. The 'mark of the beast' will be given at this time and it will not have anything to do with those who have been sealed by God. So don't fret about this unless you choose to remain sinful.

Those who will be sealed against the imposition of the seven last plagues are those who belong to Christ by virtue of their obedience to His laws and their belief in His saving grace. The 'mark of the beast' pertains to those who have denied Christ and His laws, and refused to accept Christ as their Redeemer. In the end, it is a matter of worship...the Creator or the Destroyer.

What God said to Daniel in Chapter 12 verse 10, NO ONE who is now dead could have ever understood the truth concerning end time prophecy--I mean it was impossible for them to correctly understand! Why? Because it did not pertain to them. Therefore EGW's words about this are mostly fiction.

What is the source of this information? Or, which one of Mrs. White's books are you quoting?

[12tribes]

There is no gap whatsoever, for the horn powers are still in existence, albeit by different names. They are considered to be the following:

1) Alamanni - now Germany

2) Franks - now France

3) Burgundians - now Swiss

4) Swevi - Now Portugal

5) Visgoths - now Spain

6) Lombards - Italy

7) Saxons - now England

8) Heruli - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

9) Vandals -Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

10)Ostrogoths - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

Other than the three that were prophesied to be 'plucked out' by the 'little horn', where is there a gap in the prophecy of the great image from the ten toes to the Second Coming of Christ?

I agree with you there is no gap

[Twilight II]

Couldn't start with Babylon, because from that point there were three more major powers that were considered world empires, with the Roman Empire being the fourth one. What or who are the other three? There are a couple schools of theological consensus that addresses Revelation 17, which I pointed out in a couple of posts above. If you start the kingdoms with Egypt, followed by Syria, then Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, pagan Rome and then papal Rome, then you have your seven periods. The ten kings allude to the ten toes of kingdoms, and were not in power when John was writing Revelation, for the Roman Empire broke up around A.D.476.

Slow down Bert...

Why would we start the 7 kings in Rev 17 with anything other than Bablyon?

Remember the prophecies build on each other.

If we have to start jumping around to fit something in to our framework then we are on poor foundations.

We have to discard Daniel all of a sudden and start trying to use other powers chronologically to make the 7 kingdoms the ten toes?

Doesn't make sense Bert.

There is no indication that the 7 kings of Rev 17 do not start on the same timeline as Daniel 2.

[Twilight II]

Originally Posted By: Bert

There is no gap whatsoever, for the horn powers are still in existence, albeit by different names. They are considered to be the following:

1) Alamanni - now Germany

2) Franks - now France

3) Burgundians - now Swiss

4) Swevi - Now Portugal

5) Visgoths - now Spain

6) Lombards - Italy

7) Saxons - now England

8) Heruli - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

9) Vandals -Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

10)Ostrogoths - Extinct, considered 1 of 3 plucked out

Other than the three that were prophesied to be 'plucked out' by the 'little horn', where is there a gap in the prophecy of the great image from the ten toes to the Second Coming of Christ?

I agree with you there is no gap

There are 10 toes not 7...

If we want the 10 toes to be the 7, then that timeline effectively paused before 538ad, before the three kingdoms were wiped out.

So we have pre 538 where the ten kings are all still in existance and equal the 10 toes.

So from 538 to the second coming of Christ, we have no account of anything in the statue.

Nothing.

There are 10 toes, not 7 folks.

Think about it. :-)

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The reason SDA Church .org interprets Daniel chapter two in the way it does is because Ellen White says this is the correct interpretation. Ellen White also believed and stated that Papal Rome was part of and an extension of Pagan Rome.

Thus, it is no surprise that the SDA Church .org would take up her same interpretation.

Whether Ellen White is the source of this interpretation and/or Ellen White merely reiterated this interpretation which she would naturally have gotten from her spiritual predecessors in the Protestant Reformation is not relevant because either way it is just human opinion and does not square with the plain and stated Word of God in Daniel Chapter Two.

@ miz3,

All you do is spout your opinion without any Biblical or historical support! Rome didn't just cease to exist, it broke apart and was divided. This is the second point I have proven you wrong on.

Wrong.

You are just spouting your opinion and quoting unGodly inspired sources and asserting that these unGodly inspired sources tell us the Truth about the Bible.

As I have shown you the Bible does not use "divided" in the manner in which you do (that is split in two).

Again the concept of "division" as the Bible in Daniel chapter two uses it, is in the sense that the kingdom of Rome was "both strong and weak".

To assert other than I have shown you to be the Biblical FACT is to disrespect the Bible and what the Bible clearly states is the FACT.

The Bible says "both strong and weak" and nothing any human assertions and/or human sources assert can change that FACT.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

The Encyclopedia "whatever" holds no authority as to what Scripture actually says. In your view does this "source" trump what the Bible actually says? Does this "source" have the standing to interpret what God says in the Bible?

Maybe we should all study the Encyclopedia instead of studying the Bible to know what God wants us to know. Is that what you are advocating?

Maybe the Encyclopedia is "inspired".

What is contained in the Encyclopedia is parallel to what is in Daniel as defined by the division of the empire of Rome. In the case of your interpretation of the ten toes, you are at odds with ancient history. Prophecy provides what will happen in the future, and history is a recordation of what actually happened. When they both agree, then obviously that interpretation of prophecy is correct. When they don't agree, then one or the other is incorrect. You decide which is correct based on history.

Unfortunately the Encyclopedia "whatever" is not saying the same thing as Daniel chapter two.

Therefore I cannot accept the Encyclopedia's interpretation of Daniel chapter two.

The history may be correct but to "interpret" and/or "say it parallels a Biblical account" is a completely different matter all together.

You are extending the history beyond what the Bible actually states and trying to interpret Daniel Chapter Two with a "history" that does not parallel/fit what the Bible actually says.

As the Bible states, and I repeat again, the "division" refers ONLY TO "both weak and strong". It does not refer to "broke in two".

Thus, you many be citing history but your applications to Daniel Chapter Two will be completely wrong. This is in FACT what you have done (that is applied the wrong interpretation).

[cheddar]

The first beast of Rev. 13 is the One Word Order, now forming. The second beast of Rev. 13 is Satan himself that has been given the keys of the abyss at the start of the last five months of the 42 months. By this time ALL who choose to follow truth and become righteous by overcoming sin have been sealed by God. The 'mark of the beast' will be given at this time and it will not have anything to do with those who have been sealed by God. So don't fret about this unless you choose to remain sinful.