Christ Resurrected On Saturday Morning

[Samie]

Just a reminder to those who would rather settle a doctrinal issue using EGW writings:

Quote:

But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majority—not one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain “Thus saith the Lord” in its support. {GC 595.1}

Sister White was emphatic in saying that "God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible and the Bible only...". Those who therefore use her writings as final arbiter in doctrinal issues seem not to belong to the "people" Sister White was referring to.

The Bible in Mark 16:9 had explicitly identified the weekday when Christ resurrected: "proi prote sabbatou" = "early morning of the chief sabbath" or early Saturday morning; definitely NOT early Sunday morning as the RCC would have the world believe.

[Samie]

http://www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com/ - Page 1

http://www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com/wednesdaycrucifixion.html - Page 2

http://www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com/wednesday-crucifixion.html - Page 3

Case closed.

[jamesonofthunder]

Originally Posted By: Bert

............................

e. The synoptic accounts call the Last Supper a Passover supper (Matt. 26:17, 20; Mark 14:12, 16,17; Luke 22:7,8,13-15.

.........................

SD:

Uh-uh ... taking liberties again,are you?!

Just print down here where in "Matt. 26:17, 20; Mark 14:12, 16,17; Luke 22:7,8,13-15" it is stated, a "supper"? Where it is constated, "the Last Supper", was, "a Passover supper"?

Uh-UH! Bad!

Matthew 26;17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?” 18 He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’” 19 And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.

[jamesonofthunder]

Luke 22; 7 "Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 So Jesus[a] sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.” 9 They said to him, “Where will you have us prepare it?” 10 He said to them, “Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters 11 and tell the master of the house, ‘The Teacher says to you, Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 12 And he will show you a large upper room furnished; prepare it there.” 13 And they went and found it just as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover."

Here it is seen that the followers of Jesus knew that the passover was the day before the Pharisees kept it, the day Jesus had His last supper.

[jamesonofthunder]

These texts virtually are direct quotes from Exodus 12:15.

"On the very first day", literally "on the head-first day" or "on the first, first day", the Israelites had to kill the passover, 12:6, AS WELL AS, "REMOVE / put away leaven".

Then after sunset in the night following "the fourteenth day", it is written in Leviticus 23:6, "ye shall EAT unleavened BREAD".

"So, whosoever EATETH leavened BREAD, from the _first day_ [unleavened bread shall be eaten] until the seventh day {unleavened bread shall be eaten], that soul shall be cut off."

I say the Gospels almost exactly quote the Torah.

But, you may protest, the Gospels don't speak of the day leaven had to be removed, but of the first day unleavened bread was eaten; in other words, the Gospels don't speak of 14 Abib; they speak of Abib 15.

This discrepancy arises from a double mis-translation of Leviticus 23:15.

You may see in the KJV the italicised words, "day" and "feast" in Matthew 26:17. But not in Mark 14:12, which is very sorry, because the Greek in both Gospels has one word that does not contain the concept or connotation or implication of either 'day' or 'feast'; it is only, 'a-dzumos', "de-leaven / without leaven". [Like in agnostic, 'without knowledge']

That explains everything.

And therefore, naturally, the Gospels would not contradict themselves by calling "the first day they always had to KILL the passover", "the first day they ATE unleavened BREAD" which was the first day of Unleavened Bread Feast.

What was this all in commemoration of?

The Exodus from Egyptian bondage...correct?

The night that the angel of death "Passed over" correct?

They slew the lamb 'between the door post' then painted the sills with blood, correct?

The slaying of the lamb was what happened first before anything so it could be prepared in haste...it takes time to prepare a large sacrifice. It had to be ready for dinner.

The night Jesus pledged the institution of the cup of His new and everlasting covenant in the Upper room, then signed it with His blood in the Garden, was the night the angel of death passed over Jesus for every one of us. Then He sealed it on the cross. The greatest mystery of them all...how can God die?

Point being; Luke 22; 7 "Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8 So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.

But when they got there, no one asked where the lamb was because they were just figuring it out the words of John the baptist "behold the lamb of God" but they didnt get it that He was slain, from the foundations of the world".

[Samie]

An identifying illustration of 'Scriptural bankruptcy' ...

Quote 1:

"I pose no objection to Christ being the “firstfruits” of those who have died. This is plain Scriptures. But to extend the typology that the waving of the sheaf typifies His resurrection is Scripturally bankrupt." QE

Quote 2:

"The OT specifies the firstfruits as not limited to the firstfruits of wheat harvest"

The above two quotes illustrate inept exegesis ...

... because the passover's wave offering of the first sheaf of winter's harvest,

_is_ the Old Testament's 'specific limitation' of

that firstfruits-offering to, the feast of passover,

its third day,

16th day of the First Month and

"the day after the sabbath"-of-the-PASSOVER!

As always, that's according to you. But where's your biblical proof?

How can I discuss with you the irrelevancy of the timing of the waving of the sheaf to the resurrection day of Christ when you don't even seem to know that the waving of the sheaf does NOT always occur on Nisan 16 as you claim it does! Study more, brother...

Christ's resurrection on early Saturday morning stands detached from the timing of the waving of the sheaf offering.

[Samie]

Tell us, dear Samie, just what exactly the ‘relevancy of the timing of the waving of the sheaf to the resurrection day of Christ’ according to you is?

Also this question I have asked you before. But you never answered me, Samie.

[Samie]

But I do have noticed one word in red, the word "sabbath" which you HERE, say it MUST mean "the weekly sabbath", but throughout all your other philosophical mysteries insist never means 'the week'.

Yes, the Hebrew "shabbath" is different from "shabua". The former is "sabbath"; the latter is a period of seven (days / years) or a week.

[jasd]

Quick Reply frame:

Umm, why am I getting the feeling that it is now – even as it was two millennia past, that there are/were several ‘reckonings’ of the calendar vis-à-vis the Feasts?

No surprise, as today’s Jews readily admit that the OT calendar cannot be recreated. The formula for its recreation has been lost; so therefore, they make do with the Hillel II calendar - a facsimile.

Works for them, works for us, yes?

[Samie]

Christ was crucified on the day of preparation of passover (John 19:14). It must be remembered that the Passover, saith the Lord, must be kept in its proper season:

KJV Numbers 9:2-3

Quote:

2 Let the children of Israel also keep the passover at his appointed season. 3 In the fourteenth day of this month, at even, ye shall keep it in his appointed season: according to all the rites of it, and according to all the ceremonies thereof, shall ye keep it.

The proper season for celebrating it is on the full moon:

NIV Psalm 81:3-5

Quote:

3 Sound the ram's horn at the New Moon, and when the moon is full, on the day of our Feast;

4 this is a decree for Israel, an ordinance of the God of Jacob.

5 He established it as a statute for Joseph when he went out against Egypt, where we heard a language we did not understand.

"Full moon" in Hebrew is "kece", translated "time appointed" in the KJV.

Notice how God designed the sun and moon as guardians of seasons, days and years:

Genesis 1:14-16

Quote:

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

As far as the phases of the moon are concerned, they can readily be calculated forward or backwards into time. The following link from NASA - a six (6) millennium catalog of moon phases authored by Fred Espenak - I just recently came across, will give us the full moon in the years 1 - 100 AD:

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/phase/phases0001.html

The following occurrences of the full moon in the years 30AD - 34AD were taken from the above-given link (The weekdays were calculated using a Julian Date converter from the US Naval Observatory site - http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.php):

Quote:

Thu – April 6, 30AD 19:42

Tue - Mar 27, 31AD 10:55

Mon - Apr 14, 32AD 09:07

Fri - Apr 3, 33AD 14:51

Tue - Mar 23, 34AD 15:25

Christ, Who came to fulfill the law (Matt 5:17) including the law on when Passover is to be celebrated, held it right on the dot: when the moon was full (see also DA 685.1 on Sister White's comment that it was full moon when Christ kept that Passover). He could not have celebrated it otherwise.

It can be seen from the above data that Christ could have possibly celebrated Passover with His disciples on the night of March 27, 31 AD (may also be Mar 23, 34 AD), Tuesday, full moon. The day following, Wednesday, He was crucified. 3 days and 3 nights later, He rose from the grave, on 'proi prote sabbatou' or early morning of the chief Sabbath, Saturday.

[John317]

....It can be seen from the above data that Christ could have possibly celebrated Passover with His disciples on the night of March 27, 31 AD (may also be Mar 23, 34 AD), Tuesday, full moon. The day following, Wednesday, He was crucified. 3 days and 3 nights later, He rose from the grave, on 'proi prote sabbatou' or early morning of the chief Sabbath, Saturday.

The problem with many people who are discussing this topic is that they ignore the fact that the Jews of that day didn't count time the way we count time today. They counted the entire 24-hour-day if only a part of that day was involved. Jesus was crucified on a Friday at 9 am and died that same day at 3 PM. He lay in the grave over the Sabbath day, and was resurrected early the next day, which of course was the first day of the week. For the Jews, that meant Jesus was dead for three days and three nights.

[John317]

USE BIBLES OF BEFORE THE TWENTIETH CENTURY they are not as wangled as the later ones. And compare those ancient translations with the modern ones to see the truth of the older ones!

This is nonsense.

[phkrause]

The problem with many people who are discussing this topic is that they ignore the fact that the Jews of that day didn't count time the way we count time today. They counted the entire 24-hour-day if only a part of that day was involved. Jesus was crucified on a Friday at 9 am and died that same day at 3 PM. He lay in the grave over the Sabbath day, and was resurrected early the next day, which of course was the first day of the week. For the Jews, that meant Jesus was dead for three days and three nights.

Absolutely correct John

[John317]

:-)

[Samie]

Originally Posted By: Samie

....It can be seen from the above data that Christ could have possibly celebrated Passover with His disciples on the night of March 27, 31 AD (may also be Mar 23, 34 AD), Tuesday, full moon. The day following, Wednesday, He was crucified. 3 days and 3 nights later, He rose from the grave, on 'proi prote sabbatou' or early morning of the chief Sabbath, Saturday.

The problem with many people who are discussing this topic is that they ignore the fact that the Jews of that day didn't count time the way we count time today. They counted the entire 24-hour-day if only a part of that day was involved. Jesus was crucified on a Friday at 9 am and died that same day at 3 PM. He lay in the grave over the Sabbath day, and was resurrected early the next day, which of course was the first day of the week. For the Jews, that meant Jesus was dead for three days and three nights.

I think my post does not negate what you are pointing out: a part of a day = a day and a part of a night = a night. From Friday daytime to Sunday before sunrise is merely 2 days and 2 nights but believers in this RCC doctrine believe 2 days & 2 nights = 3 days & 3 nights. Blatantly unscriptural and illogical. Since when did 2 ever equal 3?

[Q.E.D.]

11 equals 3 Binary Coded Decimal.

Q.E.D.

[Samie]

11 equals 3 Binary Coded Decimal.

Q.E.D.

hahaha... decimal 2 is 10 binary. decimal 3 is 11 binary; and still, 2 does not equal 3.

[Dr. Rich]

Hindsight is better than most of the early transcripts of the bible because we now have more insight on what all of those transcripts and interpertations were. So no, the early bibles were not all that correct as John317 pointed out.

John 11:9 shows us that Jesus considered there were 12 hours in the day AND there were 12 hours in the night at the time of His death--the day before the Passover. Because of this, the full three days started just before sundown on the evening of the Passover and continued till just before the evening of the 7th day--the weekly Sabbath. Remember, when they went to the tomb, it was already empty and this happened right after sundown after the Sabbath.

[Samie]

Which of the following is in accord with the Lord's specification in Matt 12:40?

1. daytime Friday to Sunday before sunrise = 2 days and 2 nights

2. daytime Wednesday to Saturday before sunrise = 3 days and 3 nights

The answer is obvious.

[jasd]

>>The problem with many people who are discussing this topic is that they ignore the fact that the Jews of that day didn't count time the way we count time today. They counted the entire 24-hour-day if only a part of that day was involved. Jesus was crucified on a Friday at 9 am and died that same day at 3 PM. He lay in the grave over the Sabbath day, and was resurrected early the next day, which of course was the first day of the week. For the Jews, that meant Jesus was dead for three days and three nights.<<

As the only sign given re His death and resurrection, Jesus Christ likened it to the sign of Jonah, ie: three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Matt 12:40). Moreover, He clarified His factoring of time by querying, “Are there not 12 hours in the day?” (Jn 11:9) Twelve hours in the day translates to the equivalent number of hours for the night. That is not idiomatically factored time but Roman time and – rather rigid of Jesus Christ, yes?

Neither a Hebraic idiom nor parabolic is in view, per Jesus Christ’s words.

Moreover, I’ve posted that the Babylonian Talmud Pesachim states that the Jewish custom of counting a part of a day for the whole was permitted only upon one day of a counting, either upon the first or the last day of the period, never on both ends of a period. (disabuse me should I have erred)

That would proscribe a Friday – Sunday death and resurrection narrative, as the presently accepted interpretation of the Gospel texts re Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection requires short-counting both terminuses, an idiomatic no-no.

I do not think that NT texts permit the Hebraic archaic when dealing with Jesus Christ’s death and resurrection.

[doug yowell]

Very well said. I like that!

[Windsor]

Originally Posted By: Windsor

Those who claim astronomical data supports one year or day versus another do not understand how much guess work is involved with the so-called data.

There is no 'guess work' in determining the conjunction of the Moon by math...

...There is no 'guess work' in reconciling the phases of the moon to the Julian / Gregorian calendar.

...Between the years 28 - 35 C.E.

...There is zero.

The actual astronomical date of the new moon is far beside the point. You have to determine on which date the moon became visible in Jerusalem between 30-33 AD. You can't!

[Lysimachus]

Excellent website on the "three days and three nights" expression:

http://www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com/ - Page 1

http://www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com/wednesdaycrucifixion.html - Page 2

http://www.wednesdaycrucifixion.com/wednesday-crucifixion.html - Page 3

Conclusion:

Jesus died on Friday, rose on Sunday.

By the way, 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth, some of the pioneers actually applied this to beginning Christ's agony and suffering on Thursday night after the Passover feast in Gethsemane. In other words, the 3 days and 3 nights does not commence when Christ died in the tomb, but began with his agony Thursday night. So this would still make him rise on Sunday morning. This is an interesting perspective.

Either way you look at it, we have an explanation. There ain't no way out.

[Dr. Rich]

Hmmm? probably doesn't make much a difference on one's salvation what is the truth here except that Jesus didn't lie and that would mean three, 24 hour days as in 72 hours. He was killed just before sundown on Wed. and rose just before sundown on Saturday. Period

[Lysimachus]

Hmmm? probably doesn't make much a difference on one's salvation what is the truth here except that Jesus didn't lie and that would mean three, 24 hour days as in 72 hours. He was killed just before sundown on Wed. and rose just before sundown on Saturday. Period

And lo, Dr. Rich destroys the typology of the Sabbath rest that Christ rested on the Sabbath in the tomb and rose on Sunday morning to go to work!

He died on Friday afternoon at 3:00pm Dr. Rich. Period. :)