God Reveals Mysteries in the Sanctuary Schedule In Type and Anti-Type

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

eh...someone has an awfully high opinion of one's self and one's *skills* and *aptitudes*... it's rather telling when someone toots his own horn so pompously..

I don't like the sneeringly contemptuous remarks directed @ jasd.. he's probably one of the more astute and reliable commentators on this forum. I have no problem understanding him. In fact, I rather enjoy his posts.

So....please stop with the jabs. One won't like where it takes one.

**smiles**

[Guest DennisKean]

RudyWoofs,

I'm trying to help him communicate. He does not complete any idea well enough to call it a formed argument. And the people do not really understand what he said, in spite of your claim to the contrary. Instead, they respond to their own impressions and interpolations. Jasd then replies and learns what the center of the discussion is and coaxes the individual into more expansions. In the end nothing converges and jasd is the only one learning how to walk around obstacles.

Try to be patient. I like him now. It took me a while to zero in on his MO, but now I see what is going on and I can communicate much better with him.

He just needs to start using his "Rationale" muscle and everyone will be happy afterwards. I promise. I actually like folks who are eloquent, but he has to get at least one point across directly from his own intellectual resource. What is going on right now is more like a parasitic relationship. I really want to hear something from within him. And we will all be much happier. He probably has good things to offer, no doubt.

I'm actually done with what I wanted to say to him. Maybe his pontification will vanquish and we will be able to communicate more effectively.

So thank you for your concerns rudywoofs.

Dennis

[jasd]

Dennis Kean, I am constrained from responding to your last several posts, as it is apparent that you are suffering from some sort of ague or angst. Far be it for me to add to your distress. I will however note for your benefit - that should you have given the energy expended upon your posts addressing my esteemed self - we may have seen actual exegesis done - eloquently, yes? That would have been a treat! No more knuckles on the keyboard posts...

How I would have learned! Perhaps anon, yes?

Per my ineptitude re screedal and other perceived errors in spelling and/or use: Well, I had completely missed the linguistic rule whereby inflections are proscribed in casual exchange. But I see that you've apprehended my inflections well enough, yes? Per spelling: how many ways does one spell Dostoevsky?

Does Kapish supercede Capisce? How many errors do you perceive in the interrogatory? Fact is - none. It all goes to usage. And oh, my use of embroidery, that's just what they are, accents, no more.

Debating Jesuits? I debate my dogs and do so in the one language which I barely manage - so, when I score a point - I'm so pleased that I get giddy silly. Don't take much to please me anymore. Goes to wisdom.

Who here is posting for their dissertation? Ain not me! I try to deal in information and like a poor widow, have meal and oil in reserve. Mebbe, others here might try dealing in information - as I thought that that was the purpose of a forum, and not the focus upon another's person. That is so, so, so..., jejune, yes?

And fame!? Utilizing your exclamation, Ha ha ha... Are you seeking fame here?--yet, you think fame is sought here? Ha ha ha...

Lastly, re my "pontification"? No they will not vanquish anything - but they do flap my gums, 'bout all the excercise I gets anythemore...

[jasd]

>>I don't like the sneeringly contemptuous remarks directed @ jasd...<<

What a lady!!--just loves thems sophisticated dames!

Goes to one's genealogy..., yes?

[Guest DennisKean]

Jasd

Angst... interrogatory... You are a rascal!

Okay I'm not going to excoriate you any more. I just hope you see my point, if not today then in the future.

So relax. But I will not reply to you if you throw incomplete arguments at me. How is that?

Dennis

[Johnnboy]

These two pages are the remaining portion of my original posting that began this thread. I'll post them now.

Another dramatic event took place when Pope John Paul II ended his year of Jubilee on Easter Sunday, April 22, 1984, when he closed a special door of St. Peter's Basilica, declaring the close of his Jubilee year, exactly 1260 literal days before the Sabbath Day of Atonement, October 3, in God's typical Jubilee year, 1987.

“Pope John Paul II closed the Holy Door of St. Peter's Basilica. That gesture ended the extra-ordinary Holy Year of Redemption.--Kevin Castillo—AP Network News—Rome”. April 22, 1984

Quoting from the Apostolic Letter of Pope John Paul II, given on Good Friday, April 20, 1984, he stated:

“As the Jubilee Year of Redemption draws to a close, my thoughts go out to that special land which is located in that place where Europe, Asia and Africa meet...” L'Osservatore Roman, April 30, 1984, Weekly Edition.

The Pope's Jubilee was heralded by other Churches, as well. The Seventh-day Adventist Church paper, The Advent Review, January 5, 1984, published an article entitled, “Year of the Lord's favor—Let the trumpet sound: bells ring out for this new year—a year of jubilee. 1984”

Strangely enough, October 3, 1987, God's historical Jubilee, received no attention whatsoever by the Christian community.

The future fulfillment of the 2300-day prophecy would be the third and most complete fulfillment involving the blotting out of the sins of the faithful who are alive on the earth, the beginning of the final cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, as the Apostle Peter stated, to precede the second coming of the Saviour.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ,...” Acts 3:19

“Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” Daniel 12:10

“...they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...” Revelation 3:4,5.

This future and last fulfillment of the 2300-day prophecy will begin with the “going forth” of another “commandment to restore and build Jerusalem.” This will be exactly and precisely 2300 days before the Day of Atonement in the 7th Sabbath year just before the year of Jubilee, when all four of the “shadow” Sabbaths in the fall feasts will occur on 7th day Sabbaths in the year of their greatest significance. And the great Jubilee is ushered in on the Sabbath Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year.

[Johnnboy]

The first 70 weeks of this future 2300 days will be marked with a major event, very likely involving the Ark of the Covenant, as was brought to our attention by its discovery during the previous literal fulfillment of the 2300 days.

This Ark containing the ten commandment law of God is destined to be the great issue in the fulfillment of the prophecies connected with the judgment of the living at the end of time.

This is evidenced by the words of the Bible prophet, Jeremiah, after he and his companions hid the ark in a cave on Mt. Nebo, on the peak of Pisgah, as is indicated by his statement and recorded in the book of 2 Maccabees. This book is included in the original 1611 Edition of the King James' Version of the Bible.

“4 It was also contained in the same writing (of Jeremiah) ,how the prophet (Jeremiah), being warned by God, commanded that the tabernacle and the ark should accompany him, till he come forth to the mountain where Moses went up and saw the inheritance of God.

5 And when Jeremiah came thither he found a hollow cave: and he carried in thither the tabernacle and the ark and the altar of incense and so stopped the door.

6 Then some of them that followed him came up to mark the place: but they could not find it.

7 And when Jeremiah perceived it, he blamed them, saying: The place shall be unknown till God gather together the congregation of the people and receive them to mercy.

8 And then the Lord will shew these things : and the majesty of the Lord shall appear and there shall be a cloud, as it was also shewed to Moses, and he shewed it when Solomon prayed that the place might be sanctified to the great God.” 2 Maccabees 2:4-8

The Day of Atonement that ends this last and final 2300-day period will be the day that Christ, our Heavenly High Priest begins the work of “blotting out” the sins of the living from the books of record in the heavenly sanctuary for those who have been faithful and the “blotting out” of the names from the book of life of those who have been found to be unfaithful.

Five days later, after this special Day of Atonement, on the first day of the fulfillment of the Feast of Tabernacles, (a 7th day Sabbath), God's people will be surviving in wilderness surroundings until the end of time, as evidenced by the seven days of this feast. Seven indicates completeness and extending to the end of time. These seven days are immediately followed by the eighth day of the feast, which is also a 7th day Sabbath in this seventh Sabbath year.

The year following the seventh Sabbath year is the Jubilee year when the Day of Atonement falls on a 7th day Sabbath, and the Jubilee trumpet is blown on this Day of Atonement announcing the “day of vengeance of our God;” Isaiah 61:2. Christ stands up and declares, “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Revelation 22:11, 12. This declaration completes His work in the heavenly sanctuary.

This day also ends the 1260-day period or 42 months which begins at the enforcement of the mark of the beast, the “abomination of desolation.” “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet”, is the warning sign given by the Messiah (Matthew 24:15). The apostle John writes of this same period (Revelation 13:5 “... power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. .”). This Sabbath Day of Atonement in this Jubilee year marks the end of the 6000 years of sin on this earth and the beginning of the 7th millennium, the Sabbath millennium of rest for the earth. After Christ's declaration in Revelation 22:11, He prepares to return to this earth which takes some number of days.

[Gibs]

JB,

Do you find it will go on that long? The next Jubilee is a long ways off. I do believe we are soon to enter into the last 42 mos. the beast is to continue to make war and then it is soon over. It will probably begin with the decree to annihilate the ones who won't be "team playerss" with the evil system.

How many full Jubilee cycles do you believe we've come starting yr. one with Adam?

I find yr. 1 with Adam and that was a Jubilee, a new beginning and then falls on many important new beginnings are observed.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Johnnboy]

Brother Gibs,

God has reserved all time-setting to Himself, so we cannot do any time-setting. We know that the angels are told to "Hold" back the winds of strife...until the servants of God are sealed in their foreheads.

We must understand what the True Interpreter has revealed.

"The true Interpreter must come. The One whom all these types prefigured must explain their significance." DA 33

I have to take the Messiah's own words for the Jubilee when He said, "THIS DAY is this scripture fulfilled," in 27 C.E. and count backwards and forewards from that Sabbath Day of Atonement. This is the ULTIMATE evidence.

He also interpreted the annual festivals, the new moons, and the rest of the "shadow" Sabbaths, giving us a flawless interpretation of the whole system.

I agree that it looks like everything is over, but the angels have the power to obey God's command to "Hold", so that at the "time appointed" the end will come.

"...for yet the end [shall be] at the time appointed." Daniel 11:27

[Johnnboy]

We need to pray that we can discern "the handwriting on the wall."

[jasd]

>>Okay I'm not going to excoriate you any more.<<

That is wise, as it is seldom that that which is derisory redounds well.

>>I just hope you see my point, if not today then in the future.<<

I may were it not so indefinite. I thought that there seemed an abundance of 'points' advanced.

>>So relax.<<

Been relaxed. Phlegmatically... like gum reserved for further chewing - cud like.

>>But I will not reply to you if you throw incomplete arguments at me.<<

Surely, you wouldn't expect me to proffer complete arguments... you're not implying that the list is intellectually lazy, are you?

Even prophets seldom complete their proffers -- and I certainly am not a seventh son. Haven't been a seventh son in my clan since we emigrated from beyond the Pleiades several earth-times past.

>>How is that?<<

I'm easy. Good luck with turning that new leaf - and let's enjoy and perhaps contribute to Johnboy and Gibs' thoughts...

[Gibs]

JB,

There is not any doubt but that Adam's first yr. was a Jubilee. What we can't know is Just How Close to 6,000 yrs Yah will end it. The first 49 Jubilees are in the book Jubilees. Adam lived in 19 Jub. cycles. The next yr of course a Jub..

I know Enoch made it clear the seventh day solar day Sabbath on earth was in sync with Heaven and I believe I have read that the Jubs. are too. I know he stated the Jubs. were from all eternity past and would run into all eternity future.

The Jubilees were forgotten and not kept and God reinstated them at the Exodus 1437 BC and our calendar must fall in sync with that one to be in time right.

Since 6,000 is not evenly divisable by 49 the next Jubilee will be in Heaven and a new beginning will commence.

We both know we are so close to that 42 months for the beast to continue is so close we are beginning to feel the "heat of it". The heat is being turned up slowly so the "frogs" won't catch on and jump out of the snare.

Yah. made it so we'd know within a yr. or so but not the exact time. It is an appointed time. It is so the wise virgins will not go to sleep on their post.

I don't imagine the Saints will be living in luxury very much of those last months.

2Ti 3:1 ¶ This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Johnnboy]

Brother Gibs,

According to your understanding who do you believe wrote the Book of Jubilees?

If you thought it was Enoch, did you mean the Enoch who lived before the flood and was translated to heaven?

It couldn't have been the Enoch who lived before the flood, as the Spirit of Prophecy states that Moses began the written Word.

“During the first twenty-five hundred years of human history, there was no written revelation. Those who had been taught of God, communicated their knowledge to others and it was handed down from father to son, through successive generations. The preparation of the written word began in the time of Moses. Inspired revelations were then embodied in an inspired book. This work continued during the long period of sixteen hundred years—from Moses, the historian of creation and the law, to John, the recorder of the most sublime truths of the gospel.” Great Controversy, (v) by E.G. White

Brother Gibs, you said that you had read that the Jubilees on earth are in sync with the ones in heaven.

Have you read this statement of a “Jubilee” in heaven?

“For ten days the disciples offered their petitions for the outpouring of the Spirit, and Christ in heaven added His intercession. This was the occasion of His ascension and inauguration, a jubilee in heaven. He had ascended on high, leading captivity captive, and He now claimed the gift of the Spirit, that He might pour it out upon His disciples.” Signs of the Times, December 1, 1898

This would have occurred in 31 C.E. which was the beginning of year 4 in a first Sabbatical cycle from the Jubilee, so it was in the middle of the week of years, exactly 3 ½ years from the proclamation on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee. The Jubilee was only announced by the trumpet being blown in the seventh month on the Day of Atonement which was near the middle of the Jubilee year.

Another point to note is that all the virgins, both wise and foolish, went to sleep—they all slumbered and slept.

“While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.” Matthew 25:6

They were awakened by the “midnight cry”-- some message completely outside themselves. The wise virgins did not awaken the foolish virgins.

[Gibs]

JB,

The book Jubilees was by Mosses and it is in the writings of Enoch that he tells us the Jubilee calendar was from all eternity into all eternity.

Adam and Eve in a new earth is a new beginning and so the first year of Adam was put in sync with that running caledar and same with the solar 7 day calendar. God is the Author of both. They are just two of His great time clocks.

If you disagree with Glenn Moores layout of the Jubilee calendar, I disagree with you, as I find Moore has it right. I had it the same before I found G. Moores and I know of another who only sees it from 1437 BC the Exodus through 1994 and he don't know Moore and maybe Moore don't know him. That fellow states it is a unit of 70 Jubilees and it runs in my mind then 1994 made that 70'th.

Spring 31 was the end of 30 and began the yr. 31, 30 was the middle yr of the 7.

27, - -28. - -29. - -[b]30. --31. --32. --33. End of yr 33 in spring began 34 in the spring, a Jubilee yr.

What I find no other date for it meet any known Jubilees so this is where I must stand and it proves out.

If you want I can find this second man's Jubilee calendar and give you a url to go to his statements of it and he is extremely accurate on history accounts and proofs he has found and put together.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Johnnboy]

Brother Gibs,

Apparently there are several translations of the Book of Jubilees.

Although the book contains some true information, such as the statement that there is a cycle of 49 years between the Jubilees, it does contain some contradictions to the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Some believe that it could not have been written until after the first book of Maccabees, since it contains certain elements that would not have been available until that time.

“...many scholars continue to subscribe to Robert Henry Charles's view that Jubilees could not have been written before the events of 1 Maccabees, due to perceived cryptic references within the text...” James C. Vandercam, The Book of Jubilees Leuven, Peeters p. 17-21

One of the obvious contradictions to the Bible is the view given in the Book of Jubilees about the millennium. Instead of the Biblical view of the earth lying desolate to “keep her Sabbath” for one thousand years, the view is given that conditions on the earth actually improve until becoming a paradise.

“This kingdom would be gradually realized on earth, and the transformation of physical nature would go hand in hand with the ethical transformation of man until there was a new heaven and a new earth. Thus, finally, all sin and pain would disappear and men would live to the age of 1,000 years in happiness and peace, and after death enjoy a blessed immortality in the spirit world...” The Book of Jubilees (Int. tr.) from “The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament” by R.H. Charles. Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1913.

As mentioned earlier, the Spirit of Prophecy states that there was no written word before the time of Moses. While the Book of Jubilees states that “Enoch was the first man initiated by the angels in the art of writing, and wrote down, accordingly, all the secrets of astronomy, of chronology, and of the world's epochs...” Gabriele Boccacini, Beyond the Essene Hypothesis (Eerdmans:1998)

The interpretation from the Book of Jubilees of who are the “sons of God”, contradicts the Spirit of Prophecy which gives us the true meaning of them being of the line of Seth, Adam's third son who chose to follow God, while Cain disobeyed God's instruction and raised up children who were wicked.

“The Book of Jubilees narrates the genesis of angels on the first day of Creation and the story of how a group of fallen angels mated with mortal females, giving rise to a race of giants known as the Nephilim. The Ethiopian version states that the "angels" were in fact the disobedient offspring of Seth (Deqiqa Set), while the "mortal females" were daughters of Cain.[12] This is also the view held by most of the earliest commentators.” Ethiopian Orthodox Church's canonical Amharic Version of Jubilees, 5-21.

The Book of Jubilees is an uninspired book containing serious errors and contradictions to the Bible, and as such, is not recognized as part of the Biblical Canon by Jews or Christians, with one exception, the Ethiopian Church. Therefore, it could not be taken as an authority in regards to the historical Biblical Jubilee.

I believe I commented in a previous post that the Jubilee was specified to begin in the Jubilee year on the tenth day of the seventh month on the Day of Atonement when the Jubilee trumpet was to be blown and the slaves were to be given their freedom. Leviticus 25:8-10.

God is showing by these instructions that the year begins with the first month and the freedom or the Jubilee announcement is given in the seventh month of that same year. Therefore, from the Day of Atonement of 27 C.E. 3 and 1/2 years would reach to the spring of 31 C.E. when the Passover was fulfilled by the death of the Messiah, exactly fulfilling Daniel's prophecy of “the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” This prophecy is speaking of the “week of years”--7 years. The week of years ended 3 and 1/2 years later in the spring of 34 C.E.

All Biblical evidence shows the Jubilee occurred on the Day of Atonement of the Jubilee year in 27 C.E. the first year in a week of years. There cannot be a Jubilee one week of years later.

[Samie]

...

One of the obvious contradictions to the Bible is the view given in the Book of Jubilees about the millennium. Instead of the Biblical view of the earth lying desolate to “keep her Sabbath” for one thousand years, the view is given that conditions on the earth actually improve until becoming a paradise.

...

[Gibs]

This is no rebutal to any is not the intention here, but is mine and many others understanding. Please read,

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2Co 5:1 ¶ For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Here is the crux of the matter, this Holy City comes down after the 1,000 yrs.

During this time of 1,000 yrs this is Satan’s prison house and all his angels.

The condition of earth is described by Jeremiah.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Re 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Re 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Johnnboy]

Brother Samie,

I believe Brother Gibs has made an excellent response with the texts that he gave regarding the truth about the millennium.

I wanted to add a point concerning just how one can determine truth.

The Bible is written in such a way that one needs to take all the verses on a given topic to determine the truth on that topic. There will always be a majority of statements that will interpret the truth to us. But on most topics there will be a couple of texts that seem to say the opposite of what the majority do. These do not contradict the majority, even though on the surface they would appear to. With the Holy Spirit's aid we can understand how these couple of texts do harmonize with the majority.

In understanding the truth about the millennium, one should take all the texts that pertain to that topic.

You will see that the righteous dead are raised and go with the living saints to heaven when Christ comes.

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."[/b] 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17.

Those who have rejected God's free gift of salvation are overcome by the brightness of Christ's coming and die.

“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:”[/b] 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

The devil is left on this earth without any human beings to tempt to sin until after the 1000 years.

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.” Revelation 20:1-3.

Reading through the remainder of Revelation 20 one sees that the holy city comes down out of heaven and Satan deceives the wicked ones who were raised in the second resurrection, to think that they can overcome and win the war against God and take the holy city from Him.

“But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.” Revelation 20:5.

“And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever” Revelation 20:7-10.

I believe the text that would the most directly answer your question would be 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17-- “so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

This text does not contradict the text you gave from Revelation 5:9-10, “we shall reign on the earth.”

The majority of the texts would show that this would occur after the millennium when the saints and the holy city come back to this earth from heaven.

[Johnnboy]

Brother Gibs,

I wanted to say that you gave some very good texts in your post. The Word of God gives us the solid truth--we just need to take the time to really study it.

[Gibs]

Right on Br. Johnboy,

We are not studying enough if we don't gain something each day or it is because we are lacking His Spirit to open up our eyes. It is always elating to see more and further into all that is writen there. There is more than any of us will fully see.

If we pray for greater wisdom and understanding and He answers that prayer but we must get into that Word and listen for His guiding Spirit.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

The best rebuttal to Samie's "earthly millennium" is found here:

http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/1000years.htm

Prior to the Millennium in Revelation 19, we have the following scenario:

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. " (Revelation 19:17)

If the flesh of all men are in the beaks of birds, then this goes to serve that the righteous are not on the earth. They are gathered into the clouds.

"And the ]remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh." (Revelation 19:21)

In Revelation 18:24, we also see a different scene of the destruction of Babylon and the world:

"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." (Revelation 18:4)

This is similar to Jeremiah 25:33, where it says that at the day of the Lord, the slain shall be from one end of the earth unto the other.

Immediately after Revelation 18:4, we have the following scene showing that God's people are in heaven:

"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God." (Revelation 19:1)

Zephaniah leaves no one on the planet after the Second Coming:

"I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumblingblocks with the wicked; and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD." (Zephaniah 2:3,4)

In the same context:

"The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy RIDDANCE OF ALL them that dwell in the land." (Zephaniah 1:14-18)

Nobody can be dwelling on the land, as it clearly says all. The saints can only be in heaven.

Concerning the Second Coming:

"Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens FROM above, and TO the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God [is] judge himself. Selah." (Psalms 50:3-6)

Question: Where is God?

He is "above", in the heavens.

Question: Where are the saints gathered together?

Unto God. Not God unto the saints.

To teach an earthly millennium is Pharisaical thinking. This was the precise mistake the Pharisees made---and even the disciples---thinking that Jesus was about to establish His earthly rule.

Likewise, history is repeating itself. The Pharisees of today are the stubborn evangelicals, and the mass of false shepherds---the Dispensationalists.

Whether Samie realizes it or not, much of his theology is riddled with Dispensational notions. These ideas originate from cultic doctrines started by the Jesuits and the Occult.

[Samie]

There's somebody who just can't present his views without ascribing ad hominems. Quite not good.

[Samie]

Lys,

Of your avalanche of verses you heaped on your book-like post, which of those hint the saints are in heaven during the millennium?

I have provided a couple of verses proving the saints are on earth reigning as kings and priest with Christ during the millennium:

Quote:

Revelation 5:9-10 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[Samie]

Will there be silence again?

[OzarkWoman]

I am not as schooled as most in here with the Bible, but the way I understand it is that the time you, Samie, are talking about is the time after the cleansing of the earth of all of the evil. Before that, we will be with Jesus in the New Jerusalem and that will be for the 1000 years.