Pacific Union and WO

[Overaged]

Quote:

"Change" is not always for the best if it can't be done right.

I feel that under the leadership of the Holy Spirit - the churches have done a masterful job of presenting to the people the Biblical basis of WO and educating our people as to the mission and moving forward with change.

But that's just it. I have been looking at "the Biblical evidence;" and it actually is not there. WO is not specifically spelled out in the Bible anywhere. And it is certainly becoming evident as I look into this that only a minority of the leadership supports it.

I think, also, that an additional red flag is becoming apparent here. There are now multiple topics about this subject...getting kind of spammish...

[Woody]

Quote:

There are now multiple topics about this subject...getting kind of spammish

Hmm. I've not seen any other threads regarding the action of the Pacific Union. Could you perhaps point them out so I could partake of some spam?

Although I have no idea if there is - just because I've not seen another thread does not mean there isn't one. My concern is the accusation. When one starts a thread he is most likely not going to do an exhaustive search to see if someone else might have commented about the action of the Pacific Union or whatever topic. So, the intention was not to dupicate. But to make an accusation of 'spam' seems rather judgmental and harsh to this observer.

[Overaged]

I think you know that I mean WO...to try denying multiple topics on that would be pretty fruitless...

[Woody]

I think you know that I mean WO...to try denying multiple topics on that would be pretty fruitless...

Since this topic is on the Pacific Union and it's actions - perhaps you should go to the topic that you are concerned about and make your accusations known. Otherwise I find you out of order.

[Naomi]

Woody, you are splitting hairs

[phkrause]

Woody, you are splitting hairs

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I think you know that I mean WO...to try denying multiple topics on that would be pretty fruitless...

Since this topic is on the Pacific Union and it's actions - perhaps you should go to the topic that you are concerned about and make your accusations known. Otherwise I find you out of order.

You find me "out of order;" eh? Well how quaint.

The facts remain though, there are multiple topics here now, all dealing with some aspect of WO; and I am sorry, but it's starting to smell like spam.

This whole subject area of WO is being made something it never should have been, and it's wrong what's going on and being said.

IF someone were to ask me; I would say that much of this controversy is resulting because us men have for so long been such boors to women, it's no wonder there is this kind of war between us and about us. All I know is that anything that divides this much needs to be dropped. WO fights are rife, and there is more than one agenda at stake here. None of this is serving the Lord's purposes; it is all just false revival. It doesn't make any sense at all to me for WO proponents to keep fighting and attacking the Church over this. The Lord's work has been going forward for years now without WO; and women are more involved than ever before in Church and personal ministry. I actually don't see a problem here; and I don't get it how WO would improve women's or men's ministry.

[Naomi]

I believe I am correct in saying that I am the only female on this forum who has even bothered to respond to this subject. And, by now you probably know that I think it is unnecessary and creating a division which should not happen.

I can not speak for other females on C/A but I have many female friends all over the world who are involved with the work of our Lord through various forms of minisry. With one exception, my personal poll of females consider this a non-issue.

I believe this is not so much a rights issue but stems from a few personal agendas.

I simply cannot understand why so much energy is being put into this issue when there are so many more serious things facing our people? Why would anyone want to divide the church? The work IS MOVING forward more rapidly than ever, due to the efforts of male and females!

Folks I believe the time of our Lords return is near, are we going to spend our last days using our resources fighting with each other? Male, female, black, white, brown or purple we all have different talents and contributions to make. I can't carry a tune to sing, but I can play the piano. I can't build a church building, but I can decorate one. I am not ordained, nor pastor a church but I can effectively preach the gospel. I can't heal the sick, but I can be a good neighbor and visit my neighbors no matter what their beliefs may be. Why can't we use our energies doing that which we can to hasten the return of our Lord?

[Overaged]

[doug yowell]

Woody, you are splitting hairs

Lucky Woody. I wouldn't mind having a few hairs to split.

[Woody]

Quote:

It doesn't make any sense at all to me for WO proponents to keep fighting and attacking the Church over this.

Just from my humble observation - the only ones who have attacked the church has been those who are opposed to God's Remnant Church and it's current leadership.

Kinda sad. I do wish they would just drop their opposition as it only serves to divide the church.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Naomi

Woody, you are splitting hairs

Lucky Woody. I wouldn't mind having a few hairs to split.

You know what ???

Can you imagine how much hair I would have if only I could split hairs. So far though, I've not figured out how to do that. :(

[Overaged]

This must be how he does it...

[Gerr]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[Naomi]

Quote:

It doesn't make any sense at all to me for WO proponents to keep fighting and attacking the Church over this.

Just from my humble observation - the only ones who have attacked the church has been those who are opposed to God's Remnant Church and it's current leadership.

Kinda sad. I do wish they would just drop their opposition as it only serves to divide the church.

must be in the wrong observatory

[Naomi]

Quote:

"I cannot know why suddenly the storm

should rage so fiercely round me in it's wrath

But this I know: God watches all my path

And I can trust"

"God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - Overaged

[phkrause]

You find me "out of order;" eh? Well how quaint.

The facts remain though, there are multiple topics here now, all dealing with some aspect of WO; and I am sorry, but it's starting to smell like spam.

This whole subject area of WO is being made something it never should have been, and it's wrong what's going on and being said.

IF someone were to ask me; I would say that much of this controversy is resulting because us men have for so long been such boors to women, it's no wonder there is this kind of war between us and about us. All I know is that anything that divides this much needs to be dropped. WO fights are rife, and there is more than one agenda at stake here. None of this is serving the Lord's purposes; it is all just false revival. It doesn't make any sense at all to me for WO proponents to keep fighting and attacking the Church over this. The Lord's work has been going forward for years now without WO; and women are more involved than ever before in Church and personal ministry. I actually don't see a problem here; and I don't get it how WO would improve women's or men's ministry.

[phkrause]

I believe I am correct in saying that I am the only female on this forum who has even bothered to respond to this subject. And, by now you probably know that I think it is unnecessary and creating a division which should not happen.

I can not speak for other females on C/A but I have many female friends all over the world who are involved with the work of our Lord through various forms of minisry. With one exception, my personal poll of females consider this a non-issue.

I believe this is not so much a rights issue but stems from a few personal agendas.

I simply cannot understand why so much energy is being put into this issue when there are so many more serious things facing our people? Why would anyone want to divide the church? The work IS MOVING forward more rapidly than ever, due to the efforts of male and females!

Folks I believe the time of our Lords return is near, are we going to spend our last days using our resources fighting with each other? Male, female, black, white, brown or purple we all have different talents and contributions to make. I can't carry a tune to sing, but I can play the piano. I can't build a church building, but I can decorate one. I am not ordained, nor pastor a church but I can effectively preach the gospel. I can't heal the sick, but I can be a good neighbor and visit my neighbors no matter what their beliefs may be. Why can't we use our energies doing that which we can to hasten the return of our Lord?

Excellent post Naomi. I've mentioned that a number of times and also that in all my years as an Adventist I can't recall any woman that cared a hoot about women's ordination. I'm not saying that they wouldn't be happy if it did happen, but they cared more about just doing something for the Lord. And what has ordination done for the men? Has it made them a better Christian? Has it brought more soles into the church? Has it made better sermons? Has it made a difference? I'd say no to all! It has more to do with our relationship with the Lord than does being ordained.

[phkrause]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

And Amen! Amen! Amen!

[Woody]

Quote:

I'm not saying that they wouldn't be happy if it did happen, but they cared more about just doing something for the Lord. And what has ordination done for the men? Has it made them a better Christian? Has it brought more soles into the church? Has it made better sermons? Has it made a difference? I'd say no to all! It has more to do with our relationship with the Lord than does being ordained.

Good Comments pk

[Woody]

Quote:

The committee voted separately on the main motion, including the preamble. The preamble and main motion were approved by a vote of 42-2. The process, which includes calling a special constituency session, was approved unanimously.

This is what I like seeing about this movement - the voting is very much approved by the majority of the members. This is a good sign.

[Overaged]

Not always. Specially if they all agree to put poison in the soup.

[Woody]

Not always. Specially if they all agree to put poison in the soup.

IF you don't like the soup - find a different restaurant.

[Overaged]

I'll just order something else.

As far as I know, Adventists do not usually say "How many people are voting yes on this;" but rather, "What does the Bible ACTUALLY SAY on this?"

The enclosed picture kinda illustrates what is being done to people who disagree with WO by supporters of WO...in my most humble and professional opinion that I can muster. lol

[Woody]

I haven't seen that at all. I've seen just the opposite.