Just what are we to overcome?

[phkrause]

Here again, because I do not measure up to God's perfection, you are assuming I don't have true love! Do I lack true love for my wife because at times I get frustrated and get cross with her? Does a child lack true love for his/her parents because he/she accidentally spills milk on the floor? Is a toddler learning to walk disobedient because he/she stumbles while responding to the call of the parent?

Great points Gerry.

[Gerr]

JoeMo, do I understand you to say that the sentence "He overcame the power of the evil one in our behalf," to mean that since He did it for us we don't have to do it?

sky

WHEN does God pronounce you righteous?

[Gerr]

Gibs, at what point does God pronounce someone as holy, righteous, blameless and above reproach?

[Gibs]

Gibs, at what point does God pronounce someone as holy, righteous, blameless and above reproach?

Gerry when we walk with Jesus and have His Divine Nature in us. However we can't walk but a step or two with Him without His Divine Nature.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

troy, you wrote, "Even though I sin, I have already overcome."

Saying this is just as offensive to God than claiming to be without sin in the sense that one cannot sin.

How can anyone say he has already overcome if he is still sinning!!!

And, by the way, Ellen White, Jones & Waggoner clearly taught that Romans 7 is describing the experience of the would-be Christian. In that chapter Paul is describing his own experience before His true conversion.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

Even though I sin, I have already overcome. It seems that you believe you have not overcome, unless you are free from sin.

Excellent and this gets to the heart of the issue that many here just can't grasp.This constant focus on sin will be the demise of many. ANd it was foretold that in the last days - this would occur.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

If we truly have love it will fulfil the commandments. With true love in us those commandments also become the transcript of our character as they are of His. Obedience then is not any chore at all for him who truly has love and love for Him who is not only LOVE but is also the TRUTH and the WAY!

Here again, because I do not measure up to God's perfection, you are assuming I don't have true love! Do I lack true love for my wife because at times I get frustrated and get cross with her? Does a child lack true love for his/her parents because he/she accidentally spills milk on the floor? Is a toddler learning to walk disobedient because he/she stumbles while responding to the call of the parent?

Gerry, nobody is judging you here.

There is a time for everything in the life of the newly born Christian between being a baby in Christ and the time one reaches full maturity of Christian character. And let us not forget that unless we receive the latter rain we cannot grow up into Christ and attain to perfection of character.

For decades, as a people, we have lost touch with the reality of the third angel's message, what it really is as far as God's objective is. But there will be a revival and a reformation, as promised, at least in the lives of those who shall receive, believe, and act upon the precious light of truth and the Lord will finish the work in and through them. These will attain to the perfection of character by faith and they will be prepared for the great final test and for the time of Jacob's trouble.

sky

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Gibs, at what point does God pronounce someone as holy, righteous, blameless and above reproach?

Gerry when we walk with Jesus and have His Divine Nature in us. However we can't walk but a step or two with Him without His Divine Nature.

When I accept Jesus as my personal Savior and begin the journey of the Christian pilgrimage, at that moment does God consider me righteous, blameless, and above reproach? Have I shared in His divine nature?

[Gibs]

Not neccesarily Gerry. Before He can come in the house must be emptied. We may follow along like some in the Bible but the full surrender and broken spirit of self must die and come alive Him as the Master of us. Our will, His will, our love same as His, the 10 commandments are then our love and we brake none. They have become what we love to do. Our old way has become the detestable way to us now.

When we clean the house and He comes and dwells within we are no longer the same old sin bent creature, no instead we have become to detest entering into any sin. A new man now, now baptized of His Spirit and a new life begins hating our old life.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Not neccesarily Gerry. Before He can come in the house must be emptied. We may follow along like some in the Bible but the full surrender and broken spirit of self must die and come alive Him as the Master of us. Our will, His will, our love same as His, the 10 commandments are then our love and we brake none. They have become what we love to do. Our old way has become the detestable way to us now.

When we clean the house and He comes and dwells within we are no longer the same old sin bent creature, no instead we have become to detest entering into any sin. A new man now, now baptized of His Spirit and a new life begins hating our old life.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So, you're saying that the blood of Jesus did not wash away my sins when I surrendered to Him???

[Gibs]

Gerry, it sure did if your repentance and resolve were to change were from the heart. But only your past sin, not future sins, that is what we are to get the victory over and we have no excuse for not doing so.

He has power to forgive our past sins and power to enable us to overcome sinning in the future, that is exactly what His Way is all about that all could in Him be overcomers as He showed us could be done with the Divine Nature in us as it was in HIm. Take His offer by faith and it is yours.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Gerry, it sure did if your repentance and resolve were to change were from the heart. But only your past sin, not future sins, that is what we are to get the victory over and we have no excuse for not doing so.

He has power to forgive our past sins and power to enable us to overcome sinning in the future, that is exactly what His Way is all about that all could in Him be overcomers as He showed us could be done with the Divine Nature in us as it was in HIm. Take His offer by faith and it is yours.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Salvation by achievement, pure and simple. What you are offering is not good news at all. Your past is wiped out, forgiven. But as soon as you make a mistake, you're back to where you started from. You want me back to where I was 30 years ago. No, thanks, friend. Just write me off from your heaven, because I know I can't/won't make it there by your method. I KNOW. I held that view 30 years ago. It is the most discouraging and most hopeless piece of news for a sinner. The Good News is that as soon as a sinner repents and submits to God, like the prodigal son, he is immediately given the robe and pronounced clean, and given the ring and declared to be a son once again. That happens before he has done one piece of good work! Does He leave the sinner in his filth? NO! NO! NO! Never! That's when the cleansing/purification begins, i.e. sanctification, when a lifetime of filth is removed layer by layer. As long as you have breath, that process will continue. That's how far we have fallen.

[Woody]

Quote:

Salvation by achievement, pure and simple. What you are offering is not good news at all. Your past is wiped out, forgiven. But as soon as you make a mistake, you're back to where you started from. You want me back to where I was 30 years ago. No, thanks, friend. Just write me off from your heaven, because I know I can't/won't make it there by your method. I KNOW. I held that view 30 years ago. It is the most discouraging and most hopeless piece of news for a sinner. The Good News is that as soon as a sinner repents and submits to God, like the prodigal son, he is immediately given the robe and pronounced clean, and given the ring and declared to be a son once again. That happens before he has done one piece of good work! Does He leave the sinner in his filth? NO! NO! NO! Never! That's when the cleansing/purification begins, i.e. sanctification, when a lifetime of filth is removed layer by layer. As long as you have breath, that process will continue. That's how far we have fallen.

[cheddar]

Sky and Gibs,

In my prayers tonight, God has impressed me that I am in disobedience to Him by trying to defend Him and myself by debating this subject with you guys. He said He is big enough to defend Himself. He impressed me that I am rejecting His grace and His Spirit with my frustration and attitude. I confess my sin to you and to Him. So, I'm signing off of this thread. Though I anxiously await your responses, I will not be responding any longer to this specific thread. We'll probably talk on other threads in the future. Good night and God bless.

JoeMo

You did not say anything wrong! I am always blessed by posts like yours and don’t worry even the most convincing arguments combined with powerful testimony will never convince the nay-sayers.

Jesus said that they wouldn’t believe even if Ellen White rose from the dead! or something like that.

This is why the faith message in the last days is referred to as the sealing message or seal of God. People who have been thru legalism and finally figured out how wrong it is really have no where else to go. Faith is the only feasible option.

I feel sad for those with legal religions who struggle daily with the guilt and condemnation of never being good enough. They work harder and harder but never arrive at their impossible goal. In their delusion they look at the faith message as weak and unimportant compared to their true God – The Law. Maybe someday they’ll wise up, but I doubt it.

[Woody]

Quote:

I feel sad for those with legal religions who struggle daily with the guilt and condemnation of never being good enough. They work harder and harder but never arrive at their impossible goal. In their delusion they look at the faith message as weak and unimportant compared to their true God – The Law. Maybe someday they’ll wise up, but I doubt it.

[Gibs]

Well, Cheddar, Woody, we quit working harder and harder the very moment Jesus came in and dwells within, His Divine Nature in us, our Love is now same as His Love and our will the same as His will and all overcoming is now what we love to do. Walking as He walked when here is the only way now that is not detestable to us.

You all need to pick up on it too, freedom in Him is wonderful. No problem being as He desires us to be and as He expects. Yes all must be overcomers in the here and now or it is never.

The Word holds that up and so does the testimonies from the spirit to our Messenger.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

His Divine Nature in us, our Love is now same as His Love and our will the same as His will and all overcoming is now what we love to do.

Wow! I've never met anyone like this Gibs.

I wish you would come by and visit my neighborhood.

[JoeMo]

Cheddar, Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

Woody, LOL!!!

[Gibs]

Yes, Woody, "Christ in you the hope of Glory" and that is how it is. It is the blessed and Only Way. That is His Way and there is no other. Here is a great read from the pen of inspiration, please take time to read it,

" Man through sin has been severed from the life of God. His soul is palsied through the machinations of Satan, the author of sin. Of himself he is incapable of sensing sin, incapable of appreciating and appropriating the divine nature. Were it brought within his reach there is nothing in it that his natural heart would desire it. The bewitching power of Satan is upon him. All the ingenious subterfuges the devil can suggest are presented to his mind to prevent every good impulse. Every faculty and power given him of God has been used as a weapon against the divine Benefactor. So, although He loves him, God cannot safely impart to him the gifts and blessings He desires to bestow. {1SM 340.2}

But God will not be defeated by Satan. He sent His Son into the world, that through His taking the human form and nature, humanity and divinity combined in Him would elevate man in the scale of moral value with God. {1SM 340.3}

There is no other way for man's salvation. "Without me," says Christ, "ye can do nothing" (John 15:5). Through Christ, and Christ alone, the springs of life can vitalize man's nature, transform his tastes, and set his affections flowing toward heaven. Through the union of the divine with the human nature Christ could enlighten the understanding and infuse His life-giving properties through the soul dead in trespasses and sins. {1SM 341.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Samie,

Remember that it is in reference to all those born of God:

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world;

There is noone who is not born of God, who does not overcome the world. What is it that has overcome the world? The answer is following:

and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.

This victory has overcome the world.

You proceed to talk of what overcoming means, and that is important. What does that have to do though, with the explicit statement of God in His word, that those born of God have overcome, by faith?

Remember, Paul in Romans 7 teaches us that he struggles with sin, yet in the very next chapter, says that we are more than conquerors through Him. Christ conquerored for us.

...

When Christ died on the cross, we were sanctified, that is, made holy (Heb 10:10), being fashioned into His body (Eph 2:11-19). We cannot make ourselves holy; it was God Who made us holy, and the Sabbath is the constant sign that reminds us it is God Who sanctified us, and not we ourselves (Ezek 20:12, 20). When Christ resurrected, God raised us up together with Him (Eph 2:4,5; Col 2:13), and caused us all to be born again into a new hope (1 Pet 1:3). These all occurred in the first dimension of the gospel. All grace, not an iota of human participation.

Being attached to the Head Who is our Strength (Phil 4:13), we are all capable of overcoming in the 2nd dimension. We are to overcome all evil (Rom 12:21) including the evil of refusal to believe that God had empowered all to be able to overcome, because our sufficiency is of Him (2 Cor 3:5). It is our being attached to the Head that we can overcome. It is no longer a question of INABILITY but rather REFUSAL to overcome. God has written in a person's heart and mind His Laws that will serve as the guiding beacon for man to know whether he is already an overcomer in a specific area of his spiritual life. A person could already have overcome the evil of being ill-tempered, but not the evil of being judgmental of others who does not share his views. All evils need to be overcome. With the Holy Spirit as our Guide, we know we are on the right path if we just positively respond to His leading.

Only overcomers will not be blotted out of the book of life (Rev 3:5) and in the 3rd dimension will be rewarded with life eternal (Matt 16: 27; Rom 2:5-8) and live with God and Christ throughout all eternity (Rev 21:7, 27).

[Woody]

We can add NOTHING towards the gift of salvation.

[Woody]

Satan has tried to instill in some the idea that they can bring something to the table. But that is a deception.

[Gerr]

Not neccesarily Gerry. Before He can come in the house must be emptied. We may follow along like some in the Bible but the full surrender and broken spirit of self must die and come alive Him as the Master of us. Our will, His will, our love same as His, the 10 commandments are then our love and we brake none. They have become what we love to do. Our old way has become the detestable way to us now.

When we clean the house and He comes and dwells within we are no longer the same old sin bent creature, no instead we have become to detest entering into any sin. A new man now, now baptized of His Spirit and a new life begins hating our old life.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I'm afraid you've got the cart before the horse, i.e. one has to be sanctified BEFORE justified!

[Gibs]

Yes siree, that is exactly what he does in us. However He does forgive each time we would come before that when sincere sorrow is had for our sin and we ask and then He works to have you fall and be broken on Him. This is the step most refuse to take that He can be the Master in you. Our spirit and will must be broken and we are then totally willing to do His will. He wants to dwell in us but we must ready the heart.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[troyjs]

Sky,

I had said that even though I sin, I have already overcome.

You thought that this was offensive to GOd.

Remember, that the reason I said this was because God Himself says this of us, in His word:

1 John 1:8

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 5:4

For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Our faith has already overcome the world -- yet if I say that I have no sin, I would be lying.

Therefore:

I am telling the truth and not lying when I say that I still sin,

and

My faith has overcome the world.

Has your faith overcome the world?

kind regards

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