When gays are gifted...

[Stan]

What happens if God gives gifts to gays..

(This is a take off from another topic)

[olger]

The question is too broad.

And, too vague.

[Guest]

Then it's up to the gays to decide how to use those gifts. I know Lucifer made some bad choices with his gifts.

(Not saying that gays are the devil)

Why wouldn't God gives gifts to gay people? Are they not worthy of His consideration? I have misused most of my gifts, for most of my life. But God still gave them to me, knowing that I would.

[doug yowell]

What happens if God gives gifts to gays..

(This is a take off from another topic)

The Scripture reveals that God gives gifts to everyone. He sends His rain on the just and the unjust." The answer is found in the parable of the servants who were given talents by their boss. And further is explained by Paul in Rom.1 when describing those who "knew God" but "did not glorify Him as God." Satan was given gifts and he wasn't gay so what happens in that situation?

[M. T. Cross]

What kind of gifts are you refering to Stan?

Because most of the gay people I have ever known were extremely talented and gifted people within their fields.

[Stan]

it is pretty much an open ended question.

[Gordon1]

What happens if God gives gifts to gays..

Stan, your question is very vague.

One might ask what happens if God gives gifts to heterosexuals or squirrels or Canadians.

What happens? Well, they have these gifts.

Probably given them to show the goodness of God and lead them to repentance. (Romans 2:4)

Only those who are born again will use these gifts to glorify God.

The rest might be praised by the world, but their end will be the second death, the lake of fire.

[Gordon1]

But now that women are accepted leaders in the church,

one can expect the inclusion of homosexuals in church government because of their gifts.

Is that where your question is leading?

The answer is still "Ye must be born again." (John 3:7)

[M. T. Cross]

I have a question for you then Gordon. Lets say that you have a gay person, that lives and actively gay life style, that has a great love for your God. He/she shares their love with others, brings people to worship Christ. Are they then not using their gift to glorify God? Does the fact that they have sex with someone of the same gender make the way they use that gift any less glorifying to God?

[Gordon1]

It's a valid question, but also self-contradictory.

Those with a great love for the God of the Bible will seek to glorify Him, His Son and His holy Law. The Law must be upheld, because it reflects God's character of justice and mercy, and forms the foundation of Heaven.

Satan challenged this law, and violated it.

An active homosexual cannot love this Law, and therefore can't bring others to honour the Father and the Son, though he might fill a church. Sodomy or buggery are outside the law, not above it or in accordance with it, termed an abomination. The same goes for taking bribes, wife abuse, telling lies. These will not be admitted to heaven because they contravene God's order and will.

Christ was not a sodomite. He came to do His Father's will and fulfilled this completely. He said "Ye must be born again" and this applies to all who wish to fulfill God's will. It's a recognition that we are born with a corrupt and evil nature and are helpless on our own, trapped in selfish lust, fully at the mercy of a redemptive Creator.

Christian conversion is a complete change of character. The Bible makes this plain.

It's not a name change, as some believe.

It's a renunciation of a self-destructive life for an eternity of grateful service to a loving Father.

The world may feel self-reliant, but all are dependent upon the Father of lights.

[CoAspen]

Hmmmm......

> The Law must be upheld,....<

Since christianity teaches that all have come short of the law and can not uphold it....

Since we are all sinners and need Christ to stand for us in the presence of our God....

>These will not be admitted to heaven because they contravene God's order and will.<

Your words!

My reply is off topic but so is the above post not answering stans or EC's question.

[JoeMo]

Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are actively participating in a gay lifestyle. We have a few gay/lesbians (even at least one trannie) in our congregation; and none of them are "practicing". I do not reject the theory that people can't help the way they are wired. Some will say that people "decide" to be gay. I disagree. Who would decide to be ostracized, hated, rejected, and marginalized their whole life while exposing themselves to an enhanced risk to the nastiest of STDs? Only someone who is "wired" that way. I have several gay friends; and believe me, my frequent contact with them has never tempted me in the slightest to participate in gay activity; because I'm not wired that way. Give me a woman (my wife) any day.

When I was in my late/teens/early twenties (40 years ago), I was a promiscuous heterosexual. What is the difference between my sin and theirs? Doesn't all sexual sin (all sin for that matter) lead to the same spiritual consequence? Why shouldn't God give spiritual gifts to gays? He gives them to fornicators, liars, blasphemers, thieves, etc. They are "gifts" not "wages". Gifts by their very definition are undeserved. God's gifts are also irrevocable. (See Romans 11:29) Who knows that a supernatural gift wouldn't turn someone around? God showing lavish love to someone who religion has rejected may be just what it takes to turn that person's hearts around.

JoeMo

[M. T. Cross]

Fair enough Gordon.

But how many of the laws stated in Leviticus do Christians follow? Or are these cultural laws for the ancient Hebrew people?

I would venture to say that most Christ loving gay people would put the things said in the Bible about homosexuality in that catagory as well - cultural. If they have turned their life and heart over to Christ, but have not still been convicted that their sexual inclination is sinful, then how can someone judge them for that? How can someone say that they are not living their life to honour god.

BTW there are a great many hetrosexual couples that practice sodomy. There are also other ways for homosexual couples to have sex.

[Gordon1]

Fair enough Gordon.

But how many of the laws stated in Leviticus do Christians follow?

The duty for us who know the truth, is to follow it.

Not to base our actions on popular secular or religious culture, changing every month.

The largest "Christian" denomination finds itself in a web of pedophilia cover-up, going back decades, even centuries.

So, many take the name of Christian, but take it in vain, denying the person of Christ.

Christ is the Word:

"His name is called the Word of God." (Rev. 19:13)

"The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)

He does not teach contrary to His Word by dismissing abominations (His word) as cultural.

Romans 1 offers the New Testament witness.

Yes of course heterosexuals can sin. Don't follow them either.

[Gordon1]

The world wants to bring God down to their low level.

God wants to bring them up to His level - eternal life.

We should not be surprised that these two worlds are incompatible.

[Gerr]

Ted Kaczynski was also very gifted.

[M. T. Cross]

Fair enough Gordon.

But how many of the laws stated in Leviticus do Christians follow?

[JoeMo]

MT,

As usual, you bring a measure of practicality and reason to the conversation. I commend you for your insight.

[doug yowell]

Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are actively participating in a gay lifestyle. We have a few gay/lesbians (even at least one trannie) in our congregation; and none of them are "practicing".

[Guest]

Excellent Doug! And you are exactly right.

So we are talking about spiritual gifts. I see where he used the word "Spiritual".

When I made the comment about my gifts, and how I have wasted them for a large part of my life, I was thinking more along the lines of talent. Such as music ability and whatnot, etc. etc.

[doug yowell]

Excellent Doug! And you are exactly right.

So we are talking about spiritual gifts. I see where he used the word "Spiritual".

When I made the comment about my gifts, and how I have wasted them for a large part of my life, I was thinking more along the lines of talent. Such as music ability and whatnot, etc. etc.

Yes, your right. God has given everyone on earth gifts that can be used for either good or evil. Spiritual gifts are alot different.As my best friend once reminded me,"Surfing is not one of the spiritual gifts listed in the Bible."

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

Quote:

He gives them to fornicators, liars, blasphemers, thieves, etc.

No He doesn't, you just made that up. God clearly says that He gives the Holy Spirit and His gifts to "those that obey Him." And Paul adds that "such WERE some of you." But gifts (other than the ultimate gift of Christ's substitutionary death for homosexuals)cannot change human behavior.

He did not give them to King David then?

[JoeMo]

Doug, You say that "the HOly Spirit makes it clear that He gives no spiritual gifts to practicing homosexuals". Please give me a bible reference.

My Quote:

He gives them to fornicators, liars, blasphemers, thieves, etc.

Your Quote:

No He doesn't, you just made that up.

Really? What about David ( as asked by EmptyCross)? Abraham and Jacob were liars - What about them? Saul had defied God, yet He still prophesied. What about Him? Martin Luther was a beer-swilling Jew hater - What about Him?

No - I didn't make this up.

Let's try to keep the personal attacks and insults to a minimum, OK?

[M. T. Cross]

Honestly, truly honestly, I do not understand why sexual persuasion is such a truly sore spot for SDA's. By your biblical standards there are a whole lot of sins. Each of you commit some of them every single day of your lives. If sinning is the deal breaker for spiritual gifts from your God, then not one single person other than Jesus has ever been eligible for them. So why is sexual persuasion the big focal point?

Lets look at some things here....

Acts of ego and hate

Stealing someones car

Rape

Molestation

Assault

Spousal abuse - verbal or physical

Child abuse - verbal or physical

Murder

Lying

Cheating on ones spouse

Greed

Acts of Love

Falling in love with someone (even if they are of the same gender)

Look that over, think about it, be really honest and tell me that your God thinks that homosexuality is so very much worse than those other things. Then take a good look at why you may think that it is worse than all those other things.

Now lets look for a moment that homosexuality may be a biological thing. You could even still call it a product of sin. Lets look at some other products of sin then, tell me if you think these people should be denied spiritual gifts, or if you think your god denies people afflicted with these biological problems.

Multiple sclerosis

Autism

Downs syndrom

Spina bifida

Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis

ADD

Dyslexia

Bi polar disorder

Are these worse products of sin than homosexuality? Again - Look that over, think about it, be really honest and tell me that your God thinks that homosexuality is so very much worse than those other things. Then take a good look at why you may think that it is worse than all those other things.

[CoAspen]

Sex and Christianity.......a weird subject! Me thinks many are afraid to say they like it! As to the gay issue, well, I think it used to get people to look away from our, none gay, higher pile of sins!!