Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming...

[bonnie]

Amen !!!

Funny isn't it? Many that accuse others of self seeking use scripture like silly putty,twisting and pulling till it takes the shape you want.

This doesn't mean that and it doesn't mean this,I will tell you what it means

[olger]

Individuals like you describe are often driven by guilt, regret and loneliness. No peace.

Peace,

G

[bonnie]

Individuals like you describe are often driven by guilt, regret and loneliness. No peace.

Peace,

G

many times it is to cover their own behavior while sounding righteous

[olger]

Agreed, Sister.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: jasd

QR frame:

Then again, never saw a poor man provide a paying job for anybody... Just sayin'.

ole'

Buy I've seen a lot of rich folks exploiting the poor man.

Yes, the rich provide jobs, but not out of the goodness of their hearts. They need someone to work/labor and they want the labor dirt cheap. Only if they are forced to compete will they pay more.

[Robert]

Individuals like you describe are often driven by guilt, regret and loneliness. No peace.

Maybe....

[bonnie]

Buy I've seen a lot of rich folks exploiting the poor man.

Yes, the rich provide jobs, but not out of the goodness of their hearts. They need someone to work/labor and they want the labor dirt cheap. Only if they are forced to compete will they pay more.

I have seen a lot of laborer's ,none work for someone else out of the goodness of their heart.No one seeks an employer so they can help him become rich. Their work ethic is to to only enough to get by.

Employers generally pay the market rate.

[bonnie]

Keep in mind when I say "The rich" I mean those "without God". Not everyone who is rich has exploited the poor to get their wealth, but outside God it's 100%.

This is in direct opposition to what you have previously said,Repeatedly.

Often bringing up the early church where they held all in common.

[Robert]

Employers generally pay the market rate.

How do the rich influence the market rate? Their salaries rocket into the atmosphere because of exploitation throughout the global economy while here at home the middle class sinks and their wages head towards minimum wage.

How do the rich influence the market. Buy a Politician through lobbying activity, which is nothing more bribery and corruption.

Did you view the video? It's not slanted - no spin, unlike opinion TV like Fox or MSNBC, CNN. It came from PBS.

[Robert]

This is in direct opposition to what you have previously said,Repeatedly.

see post # 583864

[Robert]

Often bringing up the early church where they held all in common.

That's the cure for poverty

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Often bringing up the early church where they held all in common.

That's the cure for poverty

All things held in common was not a command by God.It was for a time and place.There is no cure for poverty in this imperfect world.You frame your statements around a perfect world.

This has never been successful.A time when it should have been is with the early pilgrims.They almost starved to death,some did under "all things in common"

You are very eloquent and free with labeling and name calling

of others,

How many hungry have you fed recently,how many naked have you clothed.how many have you supplied with the necessities of life and how much have you retained over and above your own needs for yourself?

Or are you waiting until you can find where "they hold all things in common?

For ye have the poor with you always,....Matthew 26:11;

and whensoever ye will ye may do them good; by feeding them when hungry, clothing them when naked, and supplying them with the necessaries of life:

[bonnie]

How do the rich influence the market rate? Their salaries rocket into the atmosphere because of exploitation throughout the global economy while here at home the middle class sinks and their wages head towards minimum wage.

The market is set by demand.If I have a product no one wants,it matters little how rich I am.Being rich will not produce a market alone

Did you view the video? It's not slanted - no spin, unlike opinion TV like Fox or MSNBC, CNN. It came from PBS.

[JoeMo]

I'm sure we are all aware that it is the Love of money that is the root of all evil; not the money itself. I know plenty of wealthy people who use their wealth to unconditionally support charities, ministries, and churches that would fold without their support. Unfortunately, I know some people that are completely willing to withdraw their financial support if the organization being supported doesn't do things exactly their way 100% of the time. IMO, that is extortion or blackmail. I also know godless self-seeking narcissists who are only interested in satisfying their perversion du jour and manipulating other people.

Some people have a gift for making money; and creating a legacy with their riches. Others - not so much. I would bet both dollars that I have that if all the world's money were collected and then redistributed evenly, that the people that have the money now would be the same ones who will have it again within 10 years. People who have a talent to attract money should not be vilified for it. People who use that money exclusively for self-gratification and subjugation of the poor rather than (at least partially) for the glory of God and welfare for the poor should be vilified.

[bonnie]

People who use that money exclusively for self-gratification and subjugation of the poor rather than (at least partially) for the glory of God and welfare for the poor should be vilified.

By who?Us? Should we also vilify those with average means that are into self-gratification or refuse to use their excess and talents for the glory of God and welfare of the poor

vilify

1. To revile with abusive or defamatory language; malign he has been vilified in the tabloid press

2.To make vile; debase; degrade

[JoeMo]

First of all, "vilify" was a poor choice of words . It seems that I'm good at making poor word choices - especially in threads where you participate.

Second of all, what's "average" means? IMO, we should all be doing what we can to ease the plight of those less fortunate than ourselves; regardless of our personal social status. Some people have more means to do this than others.

[bonnie]

First of all, "vilify" was a poor choice of words . It seems that I'm good at making poor word choices - especially in threads where you participate.

Second of all, what's "average" means? IMO, we should all be doing what we can to ease the plight of those less fortunate than ourselves; regardless of our personal social status. Some people have more means to do this than others.

Given that vilifying is what is typical towards the rich,you choice of that word did not seem out of line.Nor would I have any way of knowing you meant something other than to vilify.

If I make 500.00 a week,use it poorly and for self gratification,you make a 1000.00 and do same or the next guy makes a 100,000.00 and does same,who should be vilified and condemned? One more than the other?

The only monetary means I am accountable for is my 500.00.

I may think you are spending yours unwisely,I may even think you are selfish and should do more,Not my business if you are legally earning that 1000.00.I will never be called to account

for the way you use it or misuse it

[JoeMo]

It's really hard to say what's right or wrong for someone else. For me, I usually pray and give whatever amount God (or my imagination) tells me. But it's not for any of us to judge what is the right amount for someone else. I have to actively resist judging someone who "budgets" 20% of their budget for the casino, or for drugs and alcohol. On the other hand, I'm sure I've given money to street people who have probably spent it on drugs and alcohol.

When in 3rd world counties, one has to be careful about openly giving money to street beggars. It can actually cause problems if you give to some and not to others.

[bonnie]

It's really hard to say what's right or wrong for someone else. For me, I usually pray and give whatever amount God (or my imagination) tells me. But it's not for any of us to judge what is the right amount for someone else. I have to actively resist judging someone who "budgets" 20% of their budget for the casino, or for drugs and alcohol. On the other hand, I'm sure I've given money to street people who have probably spent it on drugs and alcohol.

When in 3rd world counties, one has to be careful about openly giving money to street beggars. It can actually cause problems if you give to some and not to others.

Exactly the point. "But it's not for any of us to judge what is the right amount for someone else".

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

This is parable...please don't pervert it with our Laissez Faire Capitalism ways. Laissez Faire Capitalism is based on self-seeking and is completely out of harmony with God's methods & agape love.

It would be interesting to know, since the parable seen by you doesn't mean what it says, and I'm assuming all of the parables taught by Jesus had something to teach to every person, that you have something it taught you. Please share what you may have been taught.

"And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Luke 19:12"

And perhaps you might add some light as to how a person can fulfill Jesus' command to "occupy till He comes", especially since He was speaking about talents referenced as worthy of receiving reward for investing.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

.I will never be called to account

for the way you use it or misuse it

How would one then apply this counsel to the life, if it is felt we are amenable to God's counsel and we are interested in the safety of a brother/sister in the body of Christ?

"

“Son of man, I have appointed you as a watchman for Israel. Whenever you receive a message from me, warn people immediately. If I warn the wicked, saying, ‘You are under the penalty of death,’ but you fail to deliver the warning, they will die in their sins. And I will hold you responsible for their deaths. If you warn them and they refuse to repent and keep on sinning, they will die in their sins. But you will have saved yourself because you obeyed me.

“If righteous people turn away from their righteous behavior and ignore the obstacles I put in their way, they will die. And if you do not warn them, they will die in their sins. None of their righteous acts will be remembered, and I will hold you responsible for their deaths. But if you warn righteous people not to sin and they listen to you and do not sin, they will live, and you will have saved yourself, too.”

"Ezekiel 3:17-23 NLT

God blesses!

[Robert]

All things held in common was not a command by God. It was for a time and place.

Sure it is, "you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself". Ellen White clarified:

You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth. [DA 439]

So the church in Acts is the church fully grown up.

In fact, many SDA claim to be the remnant and they do this by quoting Rev 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Keeping the commandments of God is not mechanically keeping rules on the outside, rather it living Christ's agape filled life!

Did He live for Himself? No, "Jesus...thought not, planned not, lived not, for himself."

Selfless, agape love is the fulfillment of the law.

[Robert]

"occupy till He comes"

It means become as rich as you can be! Make millions....

One problem:

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,

what type of false doctrines? Context:

4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

In other words a rich man is a good man.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

You see this get rich thing is based on what? Sin - self-seeking. It's nothing but pure self-love. Therefore our Capitalistic system is opposed to God's agape love, a love that is not self-seeking.

[olger]

"And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Luke 19:12"

"occupy" (Luke 19:13)

4231. pragmateuomai, prag-mat-yoo'-om-ahee; from G4229; to busy oneself with, i.e. to trade:--occupy.

4229. pragma, prag'-mah; from G4238; a deed; by impl. an affair; by extens. an object (material):--business, matter, thing, work.

Blessins,

G

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Selfless, agape love is the fulfillment of the law.

"Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ."Galatians 6:2 KJV

God blesses!