Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming...

[bonnie]

Windsor, you are better off than a lot of of Americans here then. America is being brought down to the lowest of the low of third world countries and millions are hurting here and badly. Many of even small towns are homeless now and that used to be unheard of. Look at what Libya used to be and what has happened to her. They weren't controlled by the world banking system and had to be destroyed.

[Robert]

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?"...No singling out of the evil rich it seems.

Here's a fact:

Proverbs 22:7 The rich rule over the poor....

Now, to the rich:

verse 16 He who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth ... both come to poverty.

Why? Because as rich continue to exploit the poor, the poor makes less money and soon can't afford anything. Then the rich man can't sell his goods and all become poor.

We are headed in this direction even now.

Again, to the rich:

verse 22 Do not exploit the poor because they are poor...

Why does Solomon have to tell the rich not to exploit the poor? Because it is within mankind's nature to exploit.

What is exploitation?

Wikipedia:

Most often, the word exploitation is used to refer to economic exploitation; that is, the act of using another person's labor without offering them an adequate compensation.

[Gibs]

No Bonnie, there is nothing anymore for a lot of Americans. There is now more hope for illegals and other foreign migrants than for many Americans with little talents and abilities. You can't be a go getter unless you have some means left to go after it and if that is used up that you had and you've found nothing then what? There is just not enough opportunities to go around anymore.

Sure there is many that are shiftless and won't work but will work hard at trying to get out of work. They don't mind stealing or cheating, very good at that. Break ins of peoples houses and stealing money guns and any valuables is common here. 4 have happened with in a half mile radius of me and this is supposed to be a SDA Christian community. There was a hold up of a woman here at gunpoint, close here, less than half a mile, took her purse and ran, never found the culprit. I think maybe her purse was recovered but her money was gone.

A county commissioner, a very good friend of mine used to whistle all the time about there being plenty of opportunities out there, he don't whistle that no more.

America has been taken away from it's people. We have lost our Christian nation. We are not any longer a Christian Republic.

The real hard come down is coming and fast?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Most often, the word exploitation is used to refer to economic exploitation; that is, the act of using another person's labor without offering them an adequate compensation.

Living wage:

In public policy, a living wage or subsistence wage is the minimum income necessary for a worker to meet basic needs (for an extended period of time or for a lifetime). These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition. In some nations such as the United Kingdom and Switzerland, this standard generally means that a person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford a specified quality or quantity of housing, food, utilities, transport, health care, and recreation, although in many cases child care, education, saving for retirement, and less commonly legal fees and insurance may cost a family more than food, utilities, transport, or health care. In addition to this definition, living wage activists further define "living wage" as the wage equivalent to the poverty line for a family of four.

The living wage differs from the minimum wage in that the latter is set by law and can fail to meet the requirements of a living wage - or is so low that borrowing or application for top-up benefits is necessary. It differs somewhat from basic needs in that the basic needs model usually measures a minimum level of consumption, without regard for the source of the income.

Living wage is defined by the wage that can meet the basic needs to maintain a safe, decent standard of living within the community and have the ability to save for future needs and goals.[1] The particular amount that must be earned per hour to meet these needs varies depending on location and family circumstances. Currently the minimum wage across the US is $7.25, which in most areas is well below living wage due to high rent or house prices in cities and automobile dependent arrangements of grocery stores, jobs, housing, and services in suburbs and outlying areas, causing combined housing and transportation cost to be high both in the city and in the outlying areas. In 1990 the first living wage campaigns were launched by community initiatives in the US addressing increasing poverty faced by workers and their families. They argued that employee, employer, and the community win with a living wage. Employees would be more willing to work, helping the employer reduce worker turnover ratio and it would help the community when the citizens have enough to have a decent life.[2]

Poverty threshold is the income necessary for a household to be able to consume a low cost, nutritious diet and purchase non-food necessities in a given country. Poverty lines and living wages are measured differently. Poverty lines are measured by household units and living wage is based on individual workers. [Wikipedia]

[Gerr]

Quote:

Aren't they striking because they have to work over Thankgiving?

That's true for some. The one's I heard interviewed were striking because of the low pay, part-time employees without benefits. And those were the issues addressed by the Walmart spokesman.

[bonnie]

No Bonnie, there is nothing anymore for a lot of Americans. There is now more hope for illegals and other foreign migrants than for many Americans with little talents and abilities. You can't be a go getter unless you have some means left to go after it and if that is used up that you had and you've found nothing then what? There is just not enough opportunities to go around anymore.

[bonnie]

Tell me how we have gotten to the point that low skilled labor

is to carry the salary and benefits of those requiring skills.Skills that have required a trade school or college?

Wal_mart and jobs like that are not meant to be the sole income of a family.It is supplemental.

Giving unskilled,part time employees full benefits and 20.00 per hour to afford housing and all the rest would do what to those next on the ladder.Those that have done their best,put in full time and have been promoted.Then theirs should be raised accordingly as well,what? 30.00 an hour?

Then the ones that have gone to college and are upper management? In fairness,They certainly deserve a big boost.

I worked at a home improvement center,much like Home Depot.

Part time and a bit above minimum. Because of the flexibility of the hours we had many that were students,single mothers using food stamps and those that wanted to supplement their Social Security. There were bonuses as Wal-Mart has and extra hours frequently. Can you guess which made a beeline for the time clock even when extra hours were offered? They were also the ones whining about the unfairness of the pay and unfairness of life in general. A friend of mine works at the local Wal-mart and filled in for a couple that thinks the pay is lousy,they deserve more,but she wasn't working over the holiday

[Gibs]

Selling to make a living is not many peoples cup of tea Bonnie, you must be gifted at that and so is Robert and many are and many do a lot of fleecing of the people on the internet too.

I might buy from ones Amazon reccommends as they stand by for you. The only one I remember buying from was "Honest Abe", got a hard to find album I wanted and it was a OK.

Yes I did lawns for many yrs after retiring as my retirement was small. But I am no longer able so must live very close.

Hospital and doctor bills are killing us now, my wife is and invalid and I have serious problems now at 81+.

We have several who buy someones car up real cheap and put a few bucks in it and sell at over a 100% profit. Well I couldn't do that.

The fortunate don't see how it is to be of the unfortunate. Not many are poor because they want to be, but because they don't know how to work in the system for themselves and don't have that ability. Sometimes it is because they see it is not right.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[bonnie]

Selling to make a living is not many peoples cup of tea Bonnie, you must be gifted at that and so is Robert and many are and many do a lot of fleecing of the people on the internet too.

[Windsor]

Gibs be thankful you have Medicare and Social Security. Most young people will only remember social security from the history books when they reach your age.

[Gibs]

Bonnie, you don't know it yet but medicare falls way short of taking care of you but it takes a terrible chunk out of your SS check each month. We get a .7 tenths % of a raise! But what they take out more each yr is more than the raise.

Next yr our Anthem supplemental goes up 36,00 more if I remember right. I was asked to pay 562.00$ over the cost of a prescription the doctor had ordered. No way Hosea, I did not, I bought an equivalant over the counter drug.

The stuff of the new world order, TNWO, is hitting the fan for many of us. I like beans but they do get old. I raise a lot of them limas and green beans. I make up a vegie chili.

At one time a few yrs back with a fishing pole and a straight shooting 22 rifle one could win a living here in Ohio, and we did a good bit in my old home place I was born and raised at. Trapping for fur was a good income too and at one time the bounty we got for ground hogs and crows and foxes plus their pelts was a good living, but no more.

It has gotten to where this world is far from being my home any more, there is a far, far better land Jesus has for an old traveler such as I.

But know this, He has blessed me well, as I have come a lot further than I ever had dreamed I would and He gave me a vision of how He would take care of me. He let me know I am under His Wings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[bonnie]

Bonnie, you don't know it yet but medicare falls way short of taking care of you but it takes a terrible chunk out of your SS check each month. We get a .7 tenths % of a raise! But what they take out more each yr is more than the raise.

[Guest]

We should get ready to meet God. We don't have long. Even if we die of old age, it's not that long in the grand scheme of things.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

In the eyes of the average African, we all live as kings here.

I happen to have a personal friend who lives in Africa. It was providential that I met him as he was in America for just a short period of time, obtaining information about farming practices to take back to his country. He happens to be a Seventh Day Adventist and was very gracious when I invited him to my home, of which I don't normally invite people home since I'm next to ashamed to let anyone pass judgement on my poor housekeeping practices.

When I later questioned him on the phone, after he was back in Africa, whether he remembered my home, his response was how beautiful it was, something I never would have expected. With further questioning I found those who could find work made something like ten dollars a week as a laborer while those with a higher education made about 35 bucks a week U.S.

We are told in the Spirit of Prophecy that there is enough wealth in the world that there is no necessity for even one person to go to bed hungry. Using the amount I have available, in concert with a number of others in the medium size church I attend, he, along with others he shares with from his village, are now drinking clean water and eating more regularly.

I don't feel the need to justify why I have more stuff in my house than I'll ever use. What I do need is to thank God that He didn't let go of me when no one else felt I was worth hanging on to and then work at making sure that I don't waste anymore of my substance while others go to bed hungry because today isn't their turn to eat what little food might be available.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Indeed Bonnie, there are those that will never be able to be independent completely.

The biggest problem is that very often those that are the most "successful" in this world lose any humility they might once have had, not recognizing that, especially in the complex world we live in today there are myriads of people we neither know or are aware of or care about, who add to the happiness of our lives, whether we consider ourselves rich or poor and but for the grace of God were they to disappear, we would be of all people on this earth, most miserable.

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, and it is not proud. Love is not rude, it is not selfish, and it cannot be made angry easily. Love does not remember wrongs done against it. Love is never happy when others do wrong, but it is always happy with the truth. Love never gives up on people. It never stops trusting, never loses hope, and never quits.

Love will never end. But all those gifts will come to an end—even the gift of prophecy, the gift of speaking in different kinds of languages, and the gift of knowledge. These will all end because this knowledge and these prophecies we have are not complete. But when perfection comes, the things that are not complete will end."

1 Corinthians 13:4-10 ERV

God blesses!

[Gerr]

[bonnie]

The biggest problem is that very often those that are the most "successful" in this world lose any humility they might once have had, not recognizing that, especially in the complex world we live in today there are myriads of people we neither know or are aware of or care about, who add to the happiness of our lives, whether we consider ourselves rich or poor and but for the grace of God were they to disappear, we would be of all people on this earth, most miserable.

That is very true.It is also true for many classes of people.

Have you ever met a selfish middle class? Especially those that respond,"I pay my taxes, that is what it is for".

The rich are no different than most of us.Some as miserable and selfish as my average middle class neighbor.But we exempt those and concentrate on the rich,it makes us feel better about what we don't do.After all,If we had more like them we would do more

[bonnie]

We have a single female friend who is in her early 60's now. She used to work full-time in Walmart. Then they started cutting her hours to the point she couldn't make ends meet anymore and lost her house. She told us that Walmart intentionally employ part-time workers precisely to cut down the cost of benefits. It's one thing if Walmart is struggling, but when I read about the billions they rake in and then read about their employees on state supplemental aid, then I have some issues with them.

How have we gotten to the point where we think if a company employs us,we are guaranteed a job for life.

Wal-Mart is like any other business. Most jobs are not intended to make up for the lack of individuals going to college/trade school and learning a skill.How many wake up some morning and decide that Wal-mart/Target/K-Mart/Best Buy/ check-out or sales clerk is their career of choice. They do that because that is the only marketable skill they have or to supplement a existing income.It is not up to the employing company to provide them with a middle class or above career.

What people demand is a company that is going to pay them what they say they need to live on when the job is not designed for that.Any more than a job at McDonald's or Wendy's.

We have three Wal-Mart supercenters within a 25 mile radius.Without them the small towns in this area would be in a world of hurt far more than they are.

Not only from an employment stand point but from a buyer's standpoint.We have two Target super centers,the first company of choice is Wal_mart for employment.Any company is going to do what it takes to watch their bottom line to attract shareholders as well as buyer's.

It is hardly a choice of only Wal-Mart to cut back hours and use as many part time as possible.That is going to get worse.

I have a neighbor that works there part time. He is very thankful that he can supplement his regular income with Wal-Mart,the bonuses and 401 K. Because a company hires you,it doesn't mean you are bonded for life and they will take care of your needs as you see them.

Out of over 400 billion in revenue Wal-Mart takes in,15 billion is net income.Hardly food stamp level for upper management but less I think in what people think. Especially now, most of us don't have the luxury of deciding to pay more for what we buy. Demand higher pay for non-skilled labor and you wouldn't have a choice.

I make most of my own clothing but once in awhile will take advantage of close-outs in higher end stores.

The same dress with a different label was 89.00 regular price,marked down to 49.00

I bought it at Wal_Mart regular price for 29.00. I picked up a flier for help wanted,no full time,32 hours a week,starting salary was 25 cents higher than Wal-mart.

So who is taking advantage? I refuse to pay 89.00 for a dress when the same amount of fabric and the same hours goes into the product. BTW,both dresses were made overseas.

If I don't prepare for life and learn a marketable trade,what right do I have to demand any company make up for my lack

[Robert]

Wal-Mart is like any other business.

Yes, they exploit for gain. In fact they were one of first ones, when the trade agreements started, to start outsourcing jobs to cheap labor sources such as China & Mexico. Why? The love of money!

This is why we have a huge employment problem here in the USA. Our Politicians will not do anything about it because the business lobbyist own the politicians. Where's the morality in that? Hence we do not have Republic (we never had a democracy), rather we have a Plutocracy.

[Guest]

So where do you go for good prices on things, Robert? Or is it a sin to get a good price? Do you shop only at the Mall, where prices are higher?

[bonnie]

So where do you go for good prices on things, Robert? Or is it a sin to get a good price? Do you shop only at the Mall, where prices are higher?

Some are exempt from that which they hammer others with.

We live in a secular world,a business is going to do what they can to maximize profit and minimize expense.

Hopefully people like Robert can afford to shop at higher end stores.I hope those that have the finances to do so remember those that are going without and able to contribute more generously both of their time and money than the rest of the sinners do.

An employer owes you a fair wage for the job done.He is not your caretaker for your working life.Anymore than an employee is tied indefinitely to an employer if they can do better elsewhere.

To single out Wal-Mart as the picture of evil is ridiculous.All businesses if they intend to remain competitive are going to watch their bottom line.

Only in this utopia that some people seem to reside in is it any different.Not reality.

When I shop I am going to get as much as I can for what I am spending.

[Gibs]

It has gotten with me that for the sake of making ends meet I must buy the best quality for the best price. You are lucky to find anything made in America, you almost may as well forget it.

I bought an all American made lawn mower in 1995, A Walker Koler V-Twin Engine, and did a lot of lawns and the machine is still A # 1 but it should be, the price I had to pay. Blades and a 2.68 cent belt is all it has ever needed plus oil and filters. But then I had more money and bought American to hold up American.

I can't do it no more!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[bonnie]

It has gotten with me that for the sake of making ends meet I must buy the best quality for the best price. You are lucky to find anything made in America, you almost may as well forget it.

[Robert]

So where do you go for good prices on things, Robert? Or is it a sin to get a good price? Do you shop only at the Mall, where prices are higher?

It's sin to benefit off others misery and exploitation.

Here's the thing, where can you shop that the stuff is not made in China? Not many places. What I put on my cars is not made in China because of the quality and how they treat people.

Even if I shopped at Bi-lo (which is 20% higher than Wally World) they too have frozen fish from China. So where to shop?

And yes I'm technically sinning because I still buy clothes and even the high end clothing is made in China. I guess I'll go naked...not!

[M. T. Cross]

If you are that convinced Robert, why not get clothes made at a seamstress? Or learn to sew your self?