Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming...

[Guest]

Bonnie, I loved that analysis, made me grinn from ear to ear!

I liked it also.

[Robert]

But tax them too much .... and they just might stop bringing their money to the table.

Congressional Research Service study looked at tax rates and economic growth since 1945. The top tax rate in 1945 was above 90 percent, and fell to 70 percent in the 1960s and to a low of 28 percent in 1986. Currently it is at 33%. So your message, Bonnie, is way off.

[bonnie]

Bonnie, I loved that analysis, made me grinn from ear to ear!

Blessings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

Unfortunately that analysis is lost on those that thrive and take delight in imaging this picture...

Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming...

The whole point is lost while reassuring themselves this same concept could not apply to themselves.

After all if the rich were as "christian" as they see themselves everyone would be taken care of.

Railing on the evil rich certainly will take God's eye off of

their behavior,OR WILL IT??

[Robert]

Federal tax revenue, between 1950 to 2007, was about 40%.

In 1950 the Corporations paid about 30% and your average Joe about 10%.

In 2007 your average Joe paid about 30% and Corporations 10%.

Again, Bonnie, your message is all wrong.

Giving Corporations tax breaks doesn't produce more jobs. If it does then what's the problem?

[bonnie]

Federal tax revenue, between 1950 to 2007, was about 40%.

In 1950 the Corporations paid about 30% and your average Joe about 10%.

In 2007 your average Joe paid about 30% and Corporations 10%.

Again, Bonnie, your message is all wrong.

Giving Corporations tax breaks doesn't produce more jobs. If it does then what's the problem?

This is probably the only time you and I had reached agreement.

584830 - 11/23/12 02:31 AM Re: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming...

Bonnie, have a wonderful thanksgiving. I don't want to waste your time any longer. We don't agree and probably never will. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. Let's just agree to disagree.

Robert surrender

Obviously it was meant only as empty words

[Guest]

I think some name calling would be in order here bonnie. But you have risen above it.

[bonnie]

I think some name calling would be in order here bonnie. But you have risen above it.

The hatred/bitterness/jealousy for those that have more speaks for itself.

Aiding the poor should be freely given,but that act then places a burden on the recipient.

We want "those others" to aid the poor and forget about the burden the recipient should be willing to assume. Or the burden those of average means also have.

Once the poor gladly accepts the charity of someone else,he has a responsibility and burden to do the best possible with that hand up. Not say,"Give Me More"

There are those that simply cannot exceed beyond the point they are at.They should not be tossed aside to shift for themselves.

Those physically and mentally capable are responsible for what they do with the hand up. Some may only be capable of small positive steps,but those are their responsibility

Besides the "delightful anticipated destiny" given about the ultimate fate of the rich,God also had some words for the slave and how he was to conduct himself. Not only that if you are to lazy to work,you shouldn't expect to eat

.To continue caring for those that will not do that is not even a kindness to the individual.

There are many that "demand" that kindness from others,while they do much less if anything

[Robert]

Quote:

Bonnie, have a wonderful thanksgiving. I don't want to waste your time any longer. We don't agree and probably never will.

Obviously it was meant only as empty words

No, you had your turkey...times up.

[Robert]

The hatred/bitterness/jealousy for those that have more speaks for itself.

[bonnie]

No, not hatred, just making it visible how many are exploiting others for gain. That's wrong, right?

[bonnie]

During my early teen years we had a division in our small church.

The ultra- conservatives that were a stickler for the law and those that suddenly became aware of the fact there was a "new gospel" You just had to love the Lord and forget the ten commandments,after all we had a new commandment of "Love thy neighbor" They were there before you started hammering people.

It led to many leaving the church,some for other churches,others dropping out entirely.

My dad had a rather effective way of defining it for us.

Be wary of embracing any ideology that as a conservative you can slide into heaven on your vege-burger.

Be just as wary of the ideology that says "You can't lose your salvation no matter how hard you try"

The problem for both sides came when their fanatical beliefs

were meant for the other guy.

The ultra conservative was self appointed as kitchen police at potluck.Actually inspecting dishes for ingredients that were brought in

The "Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself" crowd was very scarce when it came to putting that belief into practice.

Like so many,they liked the fall back of "I don't have to,I am not trying to work my way to heaven.

Neither group is very appealing to me.

[Robert]

More corruption:

View me!

[bonnie]

More corruption:

View me!

I don't have any desire to view your links.

Corruption is not something newly discovered by you, nor are the authors of views you wish to promote.

Nothing changes the fact that you are fanatical in your demands what others are to do and for yourself,"I don't have to"

When you get control of your own corruption start taking control of the corruption you imagine in others.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

More corruption:

View me!

I don't have any desire to view your links.

Of course not, you are part of the problem.

[bonnie]

Of course not, you are part of the problem.

Obviously,the "gospel" according to Robert.I can live with that and all of your other judgements,as your judgement is not what will determine my eternal life.

Have you taken care of the selfishness in your own life before you correct mine or others?

Have you led by example those you try to hammer to death with "Love Thy Neighbor as Yourself"?

Unless someone agrees with what some of us view as a very twisted view of scripture,everything is sin according to you.With the exception of yourself,You are exempt of course.Convenient

You have the absurd view that all that go into business for themselves do so to become rich.Over half of new businesses fail,doesn't look like a very sure game plan.

Over half of my immediate and extended family are business owners or self employed.Not one started out believing they would become rich.Some did,others only a comfortable living,others failed more than once.None of them had money or the power to have their own lobbyists,especially to start.

What they did have was a strong work ethic and a belief they should not be a burden to others

You have also claimed my husband went into business for himself out of greed and ultimate dollars for our sons.

He did that in order to have our sons educated in our school system thru high school.Didn't make us anything but it did cost. Had dollars been the issue they could have received the same education at taxpayers expense.

Their college came of their own labor.Not leeching off the guy next door that had more.

Yes,they earned their degrees with an eye on supporting their families.Of course to you,that must be a sin.That is okay,my sons and my husband and I will deal with Someone not as hypocritical.

As a mother I could not be more pleased with the men my sons have grown into. All are generous to a fault,while having nice homes and educating their own children.

I was very proud(yes I know SIN ALERT)of the man my son is when he was notified of a tax audit. The reason?This materialistic exploiting business man was audited because he gave to much to charity according to his income. Many times I still am in awe of the men my sons have become,in spite of the mistakes we made.

I think what pleases me the most is they Do!!!,they don't spend their time complaining and judging others for what they don't do. Corporations or lobbyists don't have the slightest impact on what I should be willing to do for others.

Certainly takes the pressure off certain people tho when they can point the finger at the "real cause of their own selfishness"

There isn't any link you can provide that exempts you or I doing the best we can. Nothing prevents you from using your time and money to alleviate the very poverty you love to preach on.

[M. T. Cross]

Bonnie, sounds to me like your sons speak volumes about the type of person you are. I may disagree with some of your views - but if your sons are even half the men you say they are, it tells me you and your husband are wonderful people that make the world a better place.

Robert, I think you mean well........ but I think you should spend some time focusing on the "judge not" portion of your scripture. Maybe just take it to a "judge a little bit less"

[bonnie]

Bonnie, sounds to me like your sons speak volumes about the type of person you are. I may disagree with some of your views - but if your sons are even half the men you say they are, it tells me you and your husband are wonderful people that make the world a better place.

Thank you.But looking back many times it is a puzzlement to me,with the mistakes we made and seeing that now.Maybe it is in spite of instead of because.

But yes,I am proud of the men,the husbands and fathers they have become.

[Guest]

Robert, I think you mean well........ but I think you should spend some time focusing on the "judge not" portion of your scripture. Maybe just take it to a "judge a little bit less"

Amen!

[Guest]

When you get control of your own corruption start taking control of the corruption you imagine in others.

Exactly!

[bonnie]

The following is my favorite charity.This woman did not spend her time condemning the wealthy and claiming they had all the money so "what could she do"

She also didn't have the advantage of a happy healthy family environment.She didn't have lobbyists or personal wealth.

Busy lady raising 12 children.

When I first met her she was in a run down building sorting donated clothing for people on the street.Amazing what she has done and inspired others to be part of,without one word of condemnation for the wealthy.In fact it was her contact and sharing her vision with the "cursed wealthy" that has helped her be where she is at today

Meet Mary Jo Copeland

The people on the streets of Minneapolis call her their "street mother." City officials call her "an extraordinary leader" and an "urban saint." But Mary Jo Copeland, the founder and director of Sharing and Caring Hands, is not looking for praise. She knows from experience what it is to live in poverty and brokenness and she is striving to make the world a better place for the poor today.

Copeland's startup of Sharing and Caring is all the more remarkable given her painful past. She grew up in a family where her parents fought constantly and her emotionally disturbed father often beat her mother. Mary Jo was an emotionally deprived and socially dysfunctional child whom other children made fun of because they didn't understand.

Her self-esteem was almost nonexistent, like that of many other people she helps today. But someone made a difference in her life and her goal is to do the same for others - to bring relief and love and dignity to poverty stricken people.

Mary Jo Copeland - Biography

October 23, 1942 - Born in Rochester, Minnesota

June 1960 - Graduated from Holy Angels Academy.

April 1961 - Married Dick Copeland, a DeLaSalle graduate and St.Thomas College student.

1961-1981 - Had 12 children (6 boys and 6 girls) and was a full time mother until the youngest child began school

Volunteer & Work History:

1981 - 1985 -- Volunteer at Catholic Charities; recognized for her efforts with the 11 Who Kare Award.

1985 -- Started Sharing & Caring Hands, a volunteer organization with few salaries and no bureaucracy. Mary Jo has never taken a salary for this work, money and donations go directly to the needs of the poor. Sharing & Caring Hands is a vehicle for concerned people to get directly involved in helping meet the needs of the less fortunate of our society.

1995 -- Built Mary's Place, a beautiful $7.5 million transitional housing apartment complex, born out of love, compassion, and concern for women and children in poverty. This building was made possible through private donations alone. It was expanded to 92 units in 2000 at a cost of $6 million and now houses over 500 people, most of them children.

1997 -- Built new $5 million, 27,000 square-foot Sharing & Caring Hands drop-in center that serves the needs of over 1,000 each day.

1998 -- Converted old Sharing & Caring Hands building into a Children's Activity Center and Teen Center for the children living at Mary's Place.

1998 - Present -- Sharing & Caring Hands grew from a small volunteer organization with a $5,000/mth budget working out of a 2,000 sq. ft. storefront, to a large volunteer organization that spends over $350,000/mth on the needs of over 20,000 people who come through our doors monthly. This work is now being done out of three buildings, worth $19 million, totaling 130 sq. ft. located at the edge of downtown Minneapolis.

Mary Jo is currently the Director of Sharing & Caring Hands and Mary's Place, working daily with the needs of the poor. She is also working to build Gift of Mary Children's Home and Charter School as a supportive addition to foster care.

[bonnie]

From that run down building.

Notice the lack of large salaries for non-profit employees.Absolutely no whining about the corruption of others or using that as an excuse that it couldn't be done.

Nothing about this woman indicates she felt "she had to" to earn her salvation.

A Compassionate Response to the Needs of the Poor

Sharing and Caring Hands was established to be a bridge from the caring concerned community to the people in need of their help. We receive no government or United Way funding and rely solely on donations to do our work. Every year, the donations of goods, services, time, and money by thousands of people allow Sharing and Caring Hands to make a difference in the lives of individuals, families, and children in need.

Sharing and Caring Hands is a certified 501©(3) charitable organization – All donations are tax deductible.

Donate money to provide food donation, clothes donation, and more to homeless people

Our Guiding Principle

We are dedicated to the proposition that the community can make a difference in the lives of others through volunteerism, donation and commitment, and that this can be accomplished without creating an expensive bureaucracy that saps the resources necessary to carry out it's vision and achieve it's goals.

DID YOU KNOW...

92% of all money donated to Sharing and Caring Hands goes to the needs of the poor, only 8% goes to management and fund raising.

Sharing and Caring Hands serves over 240,000 meals each year (4,615 per week) to people in need.

Mary's Place Transitional Shelter houses over 500 people each night (recent count 436 children, 140 adults in it's 92 family apartments) and provided 212,500 people days of shelter last year.

We paid for 19,033 people nights of shelter last year for singles men Did you know Sharing and Caring Hands, Minneapolis charities and charitable organization, provided homeless shelters for 19,033 people nights last year. We provided food donation over 375,000 lbs each year.and women that stay at homeless shelters and families that stay at area hotels.

We gave 10,000 showers last year (about 210 each week) to people with no other access to bathing facilities.

We provided eye exams and glasses for over 600 people last year, over 1/2 of them were children referred to us by schools.

We provided over 2,800 beds to adults and children that would otherwise be sleeping on the floor.

We give out over 375,000 lbs. of food donation each year to people in need.

Your generosity allows us to help thousands of individuals and families with emergency needs for rent, utilities, health expenses, food, clothing, shoes, funeral, travel expenses, job costs, and much more.

[Stan]

>>> Sharing & Caring Hands and Mary's Place

We need more organizations like this.

Glad you support this, Bonnie..... Ya DONE WELL!

[phkrause]

Excellent post EC

[Robert]

Corporations or lobbyists don't have the slightest impact on what I should be willing to do for others.

"The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager"

[bonnie]

"The soul who sees Jesus by faith, repudiates his own righteousness. He sees himself as incomplete, his repentance insufficient, his strongest faith but feebleness, his most costly sacrifice as meager"

And is there someone here who disagrees with this?