Adventism

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: cardw

Well for god to be my friend don't you think the threat of death if I don't should be off the table. Unless you're saying that everyone is going to be saved, then you may have a point.

There you go again....Wanting something for nothing...You sound like an Adventist!!!!!!

That mentality is killing you, you know that????

Well that is going better than I thought it would.

But in that discusion CARDW has got an undeniable point about heaven or hell and the fact that the lake of fire in Rev 20 is not "An Adventist chapter" inserted in the Bible. It is what Christians find in the Bible -- and it provides some "pause for reflection" to anyone thinking of risking it (as Paschal also observed.)

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Those who are stuck at the point of the POV of the Lost -- looking into the subject of salvation -- may well be able to see the invitation to the lost

"come unto me all who are weary and heavy ladened - and I will give you rest" Matt 11

"I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door - I WILL come in" Rev 3.

But others will also note that the Matt 10 (and Matt 16) statement of Christ saying that those saved saints who do not choose to "Take up their cross and follow Me" are not worthy of Me and will not get eternal life. A much more challenging task than simply opening a door.

No wonder then that Paul says in Romans 2:13 "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law WILL be JustiFIED"

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

The Bible tells us to "count the cost" of discipleship - and commit to it.

[phkrause]

Excellent posts Bob

[Neil D]

Well, I'm not sure how I'm works oriented since I'm not trying to earn any salvation.

I thought I was asking some fairly simple questions in an attempt to understand where you're coming from.

If your answer is simply have faith, then that has no meaning to me. And I'm not accusing you of anything nor do I care if you write me off or not. You have far more invested in this than I do.

You aren't sure???? It was YOUR words that declared that you were of a mindset of working your way to salvation. It was YOUR posts that screamed out that you could not talk to God without wanting something from Him, ie the exchange of death for life..you said that you could not, when a christian, talk about Christianity without referring to the concept of fear...

I pointed out that you lack trust.......in all your relationships...even earthly ones...for your mindset is one of trading one thing for another, of fear [not trust/faith], of working for one's salvation....I pointed out your problems, and you ran from them...

So, from here on out, Cardw....everytime we exchange ideas, you will remember me from this post...you will continue to understand that you have a lack of faith, of trust, and you will not understand....for me, it is a way of life....for you, an enigma..

And the worst of this is, it's not my problem...it's yours....

[Neil D]

Well that is going better than I thought it would.

But in that discusion CARDW has got an undeniable point about heaven or hell and the fact that the lake of fire in Rev 20 is not "An Adventist chapter" inserted in the Bible. It is what Christians find in the Bible -- and it provides some "pause for reflection" to anyone thinking of risking it (as Paschal also observed

Bob

The problem, Bob, is that humanity knows it's going to die...either individually or collectively, we are doomed...unless we have an outside intervention....For collective Christians, it is the second coming....For the individual, it is the resurrection....

The real question for all of Heaven, and for God to ask of us is- are we safe to save? An Adventist mindset convolutes the thinking of "how can I be saved without appearing like that is my motivation?"

It avoids the real prize of Heaven, that of friendship with the God of the universe...God created all the inhabitants of the universe for one purpose, friendship with Him....

In our case, friendship automatically saves us when the universe is remade...the sin problem and all other problems are, in reality, God's problem....Sure, humanity [adam and eve] may have added to the origional problem, but[since that time] individually, we didn't..

therefore, it is NOT our problem....we were born this way and it's God's problem, if He wants friendship with us, to solve it....We merely trust Him to do His job.....

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

Well, I'm not sure how I'm works oriented since I'm not trying to earn any salvation.

You aren't sure???? It was YOUR words that declared that you were of a mindset of working your way to salvation.

[Neil D]

Neil, I don't believe there is any god or any salvation. That's your projection on me. I'm talking with you about YOUR beliefs. Since I don't believe its there in the first place, I can't be working toward it.

[JoeMo]

Neil D -

Quote:

In our case, friendship automatically saves us when the universe is remade...the sin problem and all other problems are, in reality, God's problem....Sure, humanity [adam and eve] may have added to the origional problem, but[since that time] individually, we didn't ... therefore, it is NOT our problem....we were born this way and it's God's problem, if He wants friendship with us, to solve it....We merely trust Him to do His job.....

alot

[cardw]

OOOoh, no...those were NOT my words..You projected and my response was to YOUR words...Go back and look again..." they die unless they have a friendship with God" was YOUR words, not mine...Mine were that you needed to get to know God, to foster a friendship....I did say that salvation is not a primary issue.It is an important issue , but not primary...And I stand by that....

[Neil D]

Do you understand the concept of deduction?

Of course you didn't say these words. The idea I was presenting was that your version of salvation is still conditional, because you stated that I am in a lost state and your solution to that lost state is for me to form a friendship with god on god's terms. This is a deduction, not a quote and if you can't tell the difference then there is no point in having this conversation.

[cardw]

Ok, now I will say it...you ARE lost...Lost to friendship....Lost to understanding just how dysfunctional you are...lost to a whole host of good relationships. lost in the concept that friendship is based upon business, and not love....That is MY deduction to a person who refuses to look for a good solid friendship...

...since I am being accused of judging, you are mistaken....You don't understand because you have never experienced it...I tried to let you experience it, and you refuse it....Not my problem.....It's your experience, not mine...