The Obedience of Christ!

[CoAspen]

Thanks for your effort to keep things clear but I think it will fail. This, as you know, is an old subject and even those who live and die by EGW will often ignore her words about the nature of Christ. A sinless, 2nd Adam with out the legacies of Adam is the basis of SDA belief in Christ being able to rescue the world from sin.

Keep up the good work!!

[Gerr]

Thanks. I have experienced firsthand the hopelessness of the idea that one can achieve the same sinlessness as Christ did. That is why it's hard for me to resist responding to statements that espouses it.

[Gibs]

Here is one for ya all to think on from Sister White,

"We are compassed with the infirmities of humanity. So also was Christ. That He might by His own example condemn sin in the flesh, He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh.--Ms 125, 1901, p. 14. {17MR 28.2}

He took the nature of man, with all its possibilities. We have nothing to endure that He has not endured. . . . Adam had the advantage over Christ, in that when he was assailed by the tempter, none of the effects of sin were upon him. He stood in the strength of perfect manhood, possessing the full vigor of mind and body. He was surrounded with the glories of Eden, and was in daily communion with heavenly beings. It was not thus with Jesus when He entered the wilderness to cope with Satan. For four thousand years the race had been decreasing in physical strength, in mental power, in moral worth; and Christ took upon Him the infirmities of degenerate humanity. Only thus could He rescue man from the lowest depths of degradation.--Ms. 113, 1902, pp. 1, 2 (See DA 117).{17MR 28.4}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gerr]

Were you born holy?

Were you conceived by the Holy Spirit?

[Gibs]

Nope!

[Gerr]

Nope!

Sooooo, Jesus was NOT EXACTLY like you and I!!!

[CoAspen]

More like an Avis, than Hertz!!

[8thdaypriest]

A doctor named Kholberg detailed 7 stages of moral development.

People invariably go through these stages.

If people die at different stages of moral development, then you must define perfection at each stage.

There is a teaching at my website on these 7 stages.

www.prophecyviewpoint.com

I think that today - in our culture - intelligence determines destiny - not race (And yes - early training, and a relationship with Christ).

So how can persons of less natural intelligence, or younger age, be held to the same standard of perfection.

And what about people coming back from Irac with PTSD. They have temper blowups, depression, etc. etc.

They may believe in Christ, but they can't just immediately overcome an organic mental disorder.

What about bipolar people, etc. etc. etc.

I think it's about which direction you are going, NOT about how far you have journeyed on the road.

Do you have a relationship with Christ as your LORD, or do you not.

[Gibs]

It doesn't take a lot of worldly intelligence to be fully Christ's at any age, some make that surrender early in life and others play in the devils playground a long, long time and finally the light comes to them, other prefer the darkness and with great intelligence and Worldly wisdom and love the world above all.

True wisdom and understanding comes from God, His Word and Spirit.

A love for the truth will bring you to Him who alone is the Truth,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Do not hear these,

Isa 30:10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Planey]

That thing whistling by over your head was the point, Gibs.

Read 8dp's post again.

Graeme

[Gibs]

Well Planey, if it is not smooth things nowadays to please the itching ears them old after the goodies of a soft life being a preacher he must have that income to live a nice easy life which most do.

That's the point old Gibs lets fly right on over and out the door I go as He Christ is not among the group if error is being flung out and I won't be either.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Planey]

Wow.

The longest non sequitur I've heard.

Graeme

[phkrause]

Paul who wrote Hebrews was very careful and clear when he said this to the Romans:

ESV | ýRo 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh...

Notice that he didn't say, "sending his own Son in sinful flesh." If, as you claim, it was the Father that came IN Jesus, can you imagine the Father coming in the flesh with the propensity to lust?

Exactly Gerry

[Gibs]

But why don't you trumpet this one Paul stated so strong?

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

In "ALL" things it behoved him to be made like unto His brethren.

That spells out "exactly" to me and to you too I would think!

If He hadn't come down to our level He could not have been tempted in "ALL" points as we are!

"We have not an High Priest which can not be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." "In all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succor them that are tempted."

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gibs]

Yes EGW states He took no power but what is freely ours, please read,

"If we had to bear anything which Jesus did not endure, then upon this point Satan would represent the power of God as insufficient for us. Therefore Jesus was "in all points tempted like as we are" (Hebrews 4:15). He endured every trial to which we are subject. And He exercised in His own behalf no power that is not freely offered to us. As man, He met temptation, and overcame in the strength given Him from God. He says, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart" (Psalm 40:8). As He went about doing good, and healing all who were afflicted by Satan, He made plain to men the character of God's law and the nature of His service. His life testifies that it is possible for us also to obey the law of God." {LHU 83.4}

A false gospel is being preached from many, many pulpits radio and TV today that will be the loss of many souls!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Planey]

When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory: and before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another." Thus Christ on the Mount of Olives pictured to His disciples the scene of the great judgment day. And He represented its decision as turning upon one point. When the nations are gathered before Him, there will be but two classes, and their eternal destiny will be determined by what they have done or have neglected to do for Him in the person of the poor and the suffering.

[joeb]

But why don't you trumpet this one Paul stated so strong?

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

[Gibs]

Here it is Gerry,

"Like",

homoioo hom-oy-o'-o

from 3664; to assimilate, i.e. compare; passively, to become similar:--be (make) like, (in the) liken(-ess), resemble.

See Greek 3664

Assimilate is to incorporate, so He did come down to our level, EGW sees this too,

Clad in the vestments of humanity, the Son of God came down to the level of those He wished to save. In Him was no guile or sinfulness; He was ever pure and undefiled; yet He took upon Him our sinful nature. Clothing His divinity with humanity, that He might associate with fallen humanity, He sought to regain for man that which by disobedience Adam had lost, for himself and for the world. In His own character Jesus manifested to the world the character of God; He pleased not Himself, but went about doing good. His whole history, for more than thirty years, was one of pure, disinterested benevolence. {ST, July 30, 1902 par. 1}

I think the case is made and I will retire from further discussion on this matter.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gerr]

Gibs, why are you still insisting that Jesus was exactly like us when you have already acknowledged that none of us were conceived by the Holy Spirit and none of us were holy at conception or at birth? Why? And here's another difference for your consideration. From a biological point of view, we are the product of a male and female gametes, Jesus was not.

[Gibs]

Read Gerry,

He took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature, that He might know how to succor those that are tempted. {MM 181.3}

Like the scripture states,

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

No Particular Adaptation for Obedience.--We need not place the obedience of Christ by itself, as something for which He was particularly adapted, by His particular divine nature, for He stood before God as man's representative and was tempted as man's substitute and surety. If Christ had a special power which it is not the privilege of man to have, Satan would have made capital of this matter. The work of Christ was to take from the claims of Satan his control of man, and He could do this only in the way that He came--a man, tempted as a man, rendering the obedience of a man." (MS 1, 1892). {7BC 930.3}

I am done with you Gerry on this as you deny the straight out word of God and EGW.

To go on is not profitable, RLH says you don't want him to quit, but well I have.

I answer you here this last time, because this is my thread.

[olger]

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" (Romans 8:3).

[joeb]

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" (Romans 8:3).

[Gerr]

Read Gerry,

He took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature, that He might know how to succor those that are tempted. {MM 181.3}

Like the scripture states,

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

I answer you here this last time, because this is my thread.

ESV Mt 1:20 "....that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."

ESV LK 1:35 "... the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God."

ESV | ý1 Co 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Exactly like us having a propensities to selfishness and lust? And called "holy" from the moment of conception and birth? Impossible!