Sexual immorality abounds

November 16, 2005

Quote:

Gregory Matthews said:

..."God invented sex" is the title of a book ...

But did you catch the sequel "...and The Devil Developed and Marketed It" ?

Graeme

November 16, 2005

Quote:

Bravus said:

That, frankly, seems pathological to me: the idea that sex is merely 'allowed' but is not God's ideal. (And, to be frank again, it seems to me that Paul, who stated that that idea was only his own opinion, not something from God, was displaying his own pathology when he said that.)

1 Cor 7:25 Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 I think that in view of the present distress it is well for a person to remain as he is. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. 28 But if you marry, you do not sin, and if a girl marries she does not sin. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that.

But again...back to my point: Sex is a weakness because of "the fall". Hence the solution: Marriage! But we know that over 50% of marriages fail...and many of them because of adultery (sex outside marriage). Hmmm?

See Paul:

1 Cor 7:5 Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

November 16, 2005

Quote:

Really sex, besides for procreation, is a weakness

ROFLOL

The mistake that sex is just properly for procreation is the HUGE mistake of the Catholic church.

When you look at human physiology, it is blatantly obvious that we are sexual creatures - far more than most other animals. Let me give you just a few.

1) The male: the penis is much larger and more sensitive than it needs to be - and is proportionately much larger than on other primates.

2) The female: the breasts are MUCH larger than they need to be for nutrional purposes. The menstrual cycle is far too fast to be 'just for procreation' - it is designed to make the female both desirous and desireable most of the time.

In short, if God created Adam and Eve looking much the same way we do now, it is clear that sexuality was a fundamental part of the bonding process and not just for procreation.

Sex for recreation is not a weakness - it is a blessing.

Someone earlier asked about sex and the single person. The answer is blindingly obvious - masturbation - and everybody knows it. Unfortunately a whole raft of stupid christians, largely propelled by the stupid aforementioned Catholic theology, have attached a huge stigma to it.

This theological stupidity about the evils of sex really came into existence during the persecution of the early church.

Then, like today, wacko's with various self-flagellating methods got far too much respect as being "spiritual" when instead they should have got treatment for being crazy. One of these methods was abstainence. "I am holier than you because you gave in to temptation and married" should have been greeted with a loud raspberry.

Paul, with his special commission and lifestyle, was justified in his personal choice. He feared the persecution immediately ahead, and gave person advice that has been inappropriately applied and has directly led to the pedophilia problems in the RC church today.

Quote:

Really sex, besides for procreation, is a weakness

Rubbish - it is a God-given gift perverted by theologians into a weapon for making the innocent feel guilty so the church has an emotional hold over them.

/Bevin

November 16, 2005

RE: "I cannot for one moment let some one like that think that being gay. . .is ok . . ."

Being homosexual is no more a choice than is my heterosexuality a choice of mine.

Our gender orientation often came to us at birth. As such, I have to say that it is NOT a sin to be a homosexual. It is a condition that will last a lifetime.

The practice of homosexuality is different from being a homosexual.

NOTES:

1) I took the beginning quotation from a paragraph that mentions practice. Therefore, I cannot clearly state what the author meant by his statement.

2) Some of my statements above are dependent upon a defination of the word homosexuality. Some people here in CA define it differently than I define it. If I were to accept such definations, I might change some of my comments.

November 16, 2005

Quote:

When you look at human physiology, it is blatantly obvious that we are sexual creatures - far more than most other animals. Let me give you just a few.

To add to Bevin's comment, regarding the female, the clitoris, serves no function except to provide pleasure. There is no hormone, nor gestational function that it provide...nothing except to create pleasure for the female.

In the scheme of God's creation, why?

The only answer is that sex is a good thing created by God...

and possibly marketed by the devil as an evil thing...

November 16, 2005

bevin - you forgot the clitoris, my friend!

November 16, 2005

D'oh! Neil beat me to it... erm, you know what I mean! <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

November 16, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Robert said:

1 Cor 7:25 Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy.

But again...back to my point: Sex is a weakness because of "the fall". Hence the solution: Marriage! But we know that over 50% of marriages fail...and many of them because of adultery (sex outside marriage). Hmmm?

Paul was speaking for PAUL in those words. When he speaks without a command from the Lord, HE IS NOT SPEAKING FOR GOD. And that means that his statement "who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy" is ALSO his opinion with regard to his trustworthiness on that topic. He is presuming that he knows Abba's will on this subject.

Marriage is NOT the solution to sex after the fall. Marriage was a perfect, unblemished convenant between a man and his wife in Eden before the fall.

Marriages don't fail because of adultery. Adultery is the symptom of why marriages fail. Marriages fail because the participants in marriage have decided that they can improve upon, or don't want to follow, the Creator's plan for a covenant marriage.

Paul was a misogynist and a zealot. He brought both attitudes and tendancies with him when he was converted from Saul to Paul. He was human and NOT PERFECT.

When he spoke from the Lord and discussed salvation by faith, Paul was a giant in the work of the Lord. When he spoke for himself, Paul reveals to us where his weaknesses lie. They lie in his zealous nature and in his attitudes toward women.

The only women Paul appears to regard with approval are those who share his zealous nature and who sacrifice in some way to further the spreading of the Gospel of Jesus. There is a huge, huge difference in how Paul treats marriage when he is speaking from the Lord, and when he's speaking for himself.

Clio <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/icon_salut.gif" alt="" />

November 16, 2005

Stimulation of the clitoris does stimulate a hormonal response. That in turn, stimulates the secretions necessary to produce an environment that is conducive to procreation.

November 16, 2005

[:"green"]It doesn't help young kids today when stuff like this is happening. [/]

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Rock star's bum appeal

A Chilean rock star is asking female fans to send him pictures of their naked bums.

Julio Carrasco, frontman of Los Muebles, launched the campaign which he calls 'an "bleep" for Los Muebles'.

He made the appeal through the Chilean media for fans to post their pictures to his website.

Carrasco told Las Ultimas Noticias he hopes to get 1,000 pictures of the bottoms of female fans.

He will then pick out the top five to give them a surprise award.

November 17, 2005

Quote:

1) The male: the penis is much larger and more sensitive than it needs to be - and is proportionately much larger than on other primates.

2) The female: the breasts are MUCH larger than they need to be for nutrional purposes. The menstrual cycle is far too fast to be 'just for procreation' - it is designed to make the female both desirous and desireable most of the time.

Are you suggesting intelligent design?

November 17, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Are you suggesting intelligent design?

My first thought was that God must be a "He"...

November 17, 2005

Or.....the feminine side of God thought it looked good.

November 17, 2005

I'll take Paul's worst over your best....He was inspired and you are not.

"Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father...." Gal 1:1

Rob

November 17, 2005

Quote:

bevin said:

When you look at human physiology, it is blatantly obvious that we are sexual creatures - far more than most other animals. Let me give you just a few.

Don't waste yourself....It proves nothing! You are a product after the fall, so your knowledge of sexuality is based on a fallen pattern.

This same "creature" that you speak of is selfish, egocentric and wicked. Shall we give credit to God for those characteristics too?

Sex is over-rated...can be highly addictive, and much harm can come of it. Take two lovers and introduce a tinge of jealous and you go from love based sexuality to rage and hate - you know - love/hate! Why do you think there's so much domestic violence in this area.... Hence, Paul is right:

"Yet such [those who marry] will have trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you." The NASB translates trouble as "tribulation in the flesh."

Why? Sex is too easily used as a weapon….Since it can be highly addictive (again, because of the fall) Paul councils:

“Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent….Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”

How does Satan tempt? He works through other women and men to pull you from the marriage bed. How does he do it? He uses your sexual weakness…something God never placed into the human family. This occurred after the fall.

So again, yes…it’s better to marry then spread oneself around, but marriage and sex come with there own problems because of our human nature. So…Paul is right and he is inspired!

November 17, 2005

Quote:

Bravus said:

That, frankly, seems pathological to me: the idea that sex is merely 'allowed' but is not God's ideal.

The practice of slavery and polygamy, which most Christians now agree were not in God's original plan, were allowed....Does that mean God approved? No!

BTW, if marriage is so great, why won't there be neither male nor female (and hence no marriage) in heaven? Maybe too many problems down here, huh?

Look...I am not down on marriage...but too often marriage is nothing more than legal prostitution. Think about that one real, real hard! I say stay single...

Rob

November 17, 2005

Quote:

Christine Wall said:

Stimulation of the clitoris does stimulate a hormonal response. That in turn, stimulates the secretions necessary to produce an environment that is conducive to procreation.

I will yeild to the personal experiences of the female in the knowing of the anotomical production of an environment that is conducive to procreation.

Quote:

D'oh! Neil beat me to it... erm, you know what I mean!

November 17, 2005

Robert,

Just about everything you have been saying here about sex could be re-appled to eating and drinking.

God invented the intake of food and liquid to supply us with the necessary sustenance to live. But he also made much of this fuel delightfully tasty as well. Thus we can enjoy eating purely for the delightful flvours involved.

Of course this can become the sin of gluttony when we eat more than we need to survive just for the appetite to be gratified. Nevertheless God made eating both necessary and enjoyable.

So it is with sex - God made it to serve a number of purposes, one of which is enjoyment in the right circumstances. It is not wrong to enjoy sex for itself, with no intention of procreation, anymore than it is wrong to enjoy different foods, provided these activities are within the proper context.

Would God have made someting to be a delight to do and then turn around and say "But you musn't enjoy it - ever! If you have fun you are sinning!"

Graeme

November 17, 2005

Quote:

BTW, if marriage is so great, why won't there be neither male nor female (and hence no marriage) in heaven? Maybe too many problems down here, huh?

I suspect that you were thinking of the following passage, Robert.

[:"blue"] 29Jesus replied, ".... 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. [/]

To which, I would ask a question of you...What evidence do you have that Angels do not engage in sex? Can a person [read that as 'intelligent being'] engage in poligomous sex without the commitment that we religionists insist upon here on earth?

Oh, and BTW, there is no evidence for nor against the idea that Angels have sex. So the concept of angels having sex, while counter to prevailent views, is not unreasonable.

And since, by your admission, God ALLOWED poligamy, why would God deny sex with muliple partners in heaven?

Quote:

Look...I am not down on marriage...but too often marriage is nothing more than legal prostitution. Think about that one real, real hard! I say stay single...

I have....and I am happily married to the same woman for many a year...

November 17, 2005

Ok... I wasn't going to open myself up to the flaming that is sure to follow this post... but I'm going to anyway.

First of all, marriage is not "too often nothing more than legal prostitution".

I have been married once only, to the same man for over 20 years. For 15 of those years, we were unable to engage in sexual intercourse due to health reasons. Neither I, nor my husband, has ever strayed from our marriage bed no matter how strong the yearning for "sex". It was never strong enough for either of us (me particularly as it is HIS health that is the issue) for me to jeopardize the love, trust, happiness, and friendship that our marriage was, is, and forever will be founded upon.

In no way am I bound in a form of legal prostitution. For our entire marriage with the exception of the first 18 months, I have been the sole provider for our family. My husband is not bound in a form of legal prostitution either. Nor have I (at least in the last 5 years) attempted to usurp my husband's role in the family as the HEAD of the home, answerable to Christ, per Colossians.

For the first year or two, it was very hard to realize that sexual intercourse just wasn't possible. When I finally met Jesus and found the promises to women in the Bible and realized what they were there for, my marriage became even stronger.

I have claimed and experienced each of them in a very real way. The first half of Isaiah 54 in particular as well as a number of passages in the minor prophets. I know the primary purpose of those verses are prophetic, but I have wept over them and offered up my sorrows to my Beloved Bridegroom and have experienced in a real and tangible (to me) way, fulfillment of those promises in my life. It is the fulfillment of those promises that has given me the capacity to offer unconditional love and intimate communication to my husband without the usual binding influence of intimate physical relations.

As my husband has continued on his journey to a closer more intimate relationship with Jesus, my Beloved Bridegroom has needed to bolster my emotions and more intimate yearnings less and less. True intimacy in a marriage, although easier to achieve with the romance and vulnerability of sexual intercourse, does NOT require it.

My husband is flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone, just as I am his. We are one, a single unit before Abba Father, bound in a covenant marriage sealed with Jesus Blood and approval. He is my best friend, my confidant, my adored beloved. I would rather be sitting silently in the dark with him, than be anywhere, with anyone, for any reason, at any time.

The only exception to the above statement is that if I must chose between my husband and Jesus, the decision is already made. Jesus will win every time.

Marriage is a pre-fall covenant sacrament. It is the only pre-fall covenant sacrament instituted by Abba Father that remains recognizably in it's original form. A man and a woman mated as life partners where two become one. Sex is a part of it. But only a part, and certainly NOT the most important part.

Perhaps a better way to state what Robert is trying to say is that marriages where the participants have deviated from Abba's original plan for covenant marriage run the risk of becoming little more than legalized prostitution.

And since we know one variety of angels can procreate (nephilim Genesis 6) there is certainly at least a hint that there might be sex in heaven.

Clio

November 17, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

29Jesus replied, ".... 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven".

To which, I would ask a question of you...What evidence do you have that Angels do not engage in sex? Can a person [read that as 'intelligent being'] engage in poligomous sex without the commitment that we religionists insist upon here on earth?

Oh, and BTW, there is no evidence for nor against the idea that Angels have sex. So the concept of angels having sex, while counter to prevailent views, is not unreasonable

We can only hypothysise about what angels are like/do in heaven, since the bible doesnt speak to that issue. But for some reason I always got the impression that angels were non-gender specific beings. However, when we are recreated I believe we will have our currant personalities intact. We will remember our lives on this earth. So I believe we will associate ourselves with being male or female. As to what we do with that association? That is just speculation.

November 17, 2005

"Male and female created he them" - did He make a mistake, to be rectified at the Second Coming? I don't think so. That text Rob quoted about marriage in heaven isn't a good one to make major doctrines around, since it was Jesus disposing of a stupid, impertinent sophistical question.

November 17, 2005

Maybe it's not a mistake that He'll need to correct. Maybe it's just something that won't be necessary for us any longer.

November 17, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

"Male and female created he them"

Yes, He created them for this earth. The bible says nothing about the angels creation and gender. Nor about us on the new earth.

November 17, 2005

Quote:

just about everything you have been saying here about sex could be re-appled to eating and drinking.

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark" Mtt. 24:37, 38

What a great point. It is easy to see the sexual promiscuity is a sign of the end but society's eating and drinking habits are too.

Sign In

Sexual immorality abounds

Recommended Posts

Planey

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Robert

bevin

Gregory Matthews

Neil D

Bravus

Bravus

Clio

cricket

Amelia

Dr. Shane

Gail

Amelia

Robert

Robert

Robert

Neil D

Planey

Neil D

Clio

Amelia

Bravus

cricket

Amelia

Dr. Shane

Join the conversation

Browse

Activity