I know this is going to fly in the face of many people but, truth is truth.

March 11, 2015

If Jesus is also the Spirit, did Jesus see Himself alighting upon Himself after His baptism?

NKJ Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.

NKJ Mark 1:10 And immediately, coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit descending upon Him like a dove.

If Jesus is also the Spirit, did He lead HImself to the wilderness?

NKJ Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

NKJ Mark 1:12 Immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness.

NKJ Luke 4:1 Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

In view of the above verses and many others more, I really find it difficult to believe that Jesus is also the Holy Spirit.

"God IS spirit" (John 4:24).

God our Father IS spirit.

He anointed His own Son with His own spirit.

You think because the Father can appear to His created beings in a FORM sitting on a throne, that He cannot also be spirit.

God our Father is omnipresent.

Ephesians 4:6 "one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."

Possessive terms are used with "spirit". The expression "God the Spirit" is NEVER used.

"His spirit" (16 times), "the Spirit of God" (26 times), the spirit of the LORD (28 times), spirit of Christ (2 times), "Your spirit" ( ), "My spirit" ( ), "His holy spirit" ( ), "the Spirit of Christ"

eg: "the LORD would put his spirit upon them!" ((Num. 11:24)

eg: "You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the earth." (Psalm 104:30).

eg: "As for Me," says the LORD, "this is My covenant with them: My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, (Isa 59:21)

eg: "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Rom 8:9 NKJ)

eg: "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;" (Isa 63:10 NKJ)

eg: "By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit." (1Jo 4:13).

[The He - who abides in us - is Jesus. See v. 23 and 24.]

Just look at "what the Spirit says" to the churches in Revelation cpt 2 and 3. Every message is Christ speaking, NOT another divine being.

“Our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son” (1John 1:3, 1John 2:24).

All “the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in the Father and the Son” (Col. 2:2-3).

13 times Paul opened or closed his letters with "grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ". What? He forgot to include the Spirit as a third divine being - 13 times!!

March 11, 2015

. . .

13 times Paul opened or closed his letters with "grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ". What? He forgot to include the Spirit as a third divine being - 13 times!!

A person has 3 friends. Referring to the two of them a thousand times without mentioning the other one does not necessarily mean the third one does not exist.

In Acts, Luke mentioned the Holy Spirit alone 26 times, and the Holy Spirit and Jesus 7 times without mentioning the Father. It is absurd to say that Luke forgot the Father 33 times.

March 11, 2015

A person has 3 friends. Referring to the two of them a thousand times without mentioning the other one does not necessarily mean the third one does not exist.

In Acts, Luke mentioned the Holy Spirit alone 26 times, and the Holy Spirit and Jesus 7 times without mentioning the Father. It is absurd to say that Luke forgot the Father 33 times.

Samie,

When you quote me, and then say that something I said is "absurd" - THAT is disrespectful.

March 11, 2015

Jesus said, "I came forth from the Father, AND have come into the world."

In John 17, in His prayer TO HIS FATHER, Jesus said,

"For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. (Joh 17:8 NKJ)

Jesus NEVER said, "I came forth from the Spirit."

Jesus never said that the Spirit sent Him.

Jesus did say that His Father SENT Him.

"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father. (Joh 6:57 NKJ)

March 11, 2015

Samie,

When you quote me, and then say that something I said is "absurd" - THAT is disrespectful.

Sis Rachel;

So sorry.

But why not address the issue instead of allowing your emotion to hold sway? This is a discussion forum.

It is not my intention to speak evil of anyone. When I posted it is absurd to say something, I meant no ill to anybody, nor that I disrespect the one I quoted.

March 11, 2015

. . .

Jesus NEVER said, "I came forth from the Spirit."

Jesus never said that the Spirit sent Him.

. . .

But Jesus said He will send the Spirit. I don't think Jesus means He will send Himself:

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

I see no reason why Jesus is also the Spirit in the verse above.

March 11, 2015

I only counted 17 times where the "Holy Spirit" or "Spirit" with a capital S, is mentioned in Luke.

The other times Luke is writing about other people's spirit.

John heard "every being in heaven and in earth, crying with a loud voice, 'Glory be to the ONE who sits on the throne, AND to the LAMB forever and ever'".

Why no praise, honor, or glory to "the Spirit", if he is a THIRD divine BEING?

Only TWO Beings are ever praised, or glorified, or worshiped - in the Scriptures.

THAT suggests to me, that there ARE only TWO - the Father and His Son.

There is no verse which says, "There are two divine beings."

And there is no verse which says "there are three divine beings."

We have to go by the weight of evidence.

For me - the evidence is weighted on the side of TWO divine beings.

March 11, 2015

Sis Rachel;

So sorry.

But why not address the issue instead of allowing your emotion to hold sway? This is a discussion forum.

It is not my intention to speak evil of anyone. When I posted it is absurd to say something, I meant no ill to anybody, nor that I disrespect the one I quoted.

You did it again Samie.

"Allowing my emotion to hold sway" .... really.

I'm very level headed Samie.

I performed anesthetics for 34 years.

I've just decided NOT to allow you to speak disrespectfully, without calling you on it.

March 11, 2015

You did it again Samie.

"Allowing my emotion to hold sway" .... really.

I'm very level headed Samie.

I performed anesthetics for 34 years.

I've just decided NOT to allow you to speak disrespectfully, without calling you on it.

Sis Rachel,

I respect your decision to put the color you want to what I am posting.

For me, I won't resort to sidetracking.of issues if I ran out of Biblical shelter for my position.

March 11, 2015

I only counted 17 times where the "Holy Spirit" or "Spirit" with a capital S, is mentioned in Luke.

The other times Luke is writing about other people's spirit.
. . .

Please count again. This time, in the book of Acts which Luke wrote.

. . .

We have to go by the weight of evidence.

For me - the evidence is weighted on the side of TWO divine beings.

When the Bible speaks, that to me is more than all the weight anyone puts in.

NKJ Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

NKJ Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to those who are bound

I see 3, where others might only see 2.

.

March 11, 2015

But Jesus said He will send the Spirit. I don't think Jesus means He will send Himself:

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

I see no reason why Jesus is also the Spirit in the verse above.

I believe Jesus meant exactly that. He would send himself. He would send His own spirit presence.

John 14:18 "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you." (NKJ)

Revelation 3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. (NKJ)

When Jesus was glorified, the power to be omnipresent was restored to Him.

He then immediately poured out His own spirit presence upon His disciples.

Christ dwells IN US, by His own Spirit presence. "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27).

He does not need another Mediator, to act as go-between - to convey His messages to our hearts.

Christ is the ONE MEDIATOR - between God and man.

To say that Christ communicates with us via another Divine Being, is to insert ANOTHER Mediator.

March 11, 2015

Sis Rachel,

I respect your decision to put the color you want to what I am posting.

For me, I won't resort to sidetracking.of issues if I ran out of Biblical shelter for my position.

You just did it again.

Have you ever read the book, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" ?

March 11, 2015

You just did it again.

Have you ever read the book, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" ?

No, I have not. Did that book influence you that much? It's the Bible that influenced me more.

March 11, 2015

Please count again. This time, in the book of Acts which Luke wrote.

When the Bible speaks, that to me is more than all the weight anyone puts in.

NKJ Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

NKJ Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to those who are bound

I see 3, where others might only see 2.

.

EVERY other version says that God has sent me and His Spirit. You cannot use this verse to prove a 3rd divine Being SENT Jesus.

Isaiah 48:16 "and now Adonai ELOHIM has sent me and his Spirit." (CJB)

Isaiah 48:16 "And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit." (NAU)

Isaiah 48:16 "And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me, endowed with his Spirit." (NIV)

Isaiah 48:16 "And now the Lord GOD has sent me and his spirit." (NRS)

Isaiah 61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me." (NKJ)

Yes. The LORD (God His Father) anointed Jesus with His own Spirit, at the baptism.

Acts 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. (NKJ)

God Our Father anointed Jesus WITH the Holy Spirit.

It doesn't say God the Holy Spirit anointed Jesus.

Who did Jesus say dwelt IN HIM, and did the works" His Father!

John 14:10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works." (NKJ)

No mention of a THIRD divine being.

March 11, 2015

Samie,

I agree with 'Sis Rachel". She responds to your questions objectively and honestly; and in your own way, you put her down in a very condescending and denigrating manner. From the outside, it seems like you are trying to discredit her personally rather than counter her logic.

You're right - this is a discussion board -it is not a place to subtly devalue and insult others who happen to disagree with your position; and then play innocent.

You notice that I rarely get involved in threads where you are active any more. It's because you wore me out and with your nits and petty dives into meaningless detail. If being saved is as difficult and complicated of a road as you make it sound, you might be the only one there.

March 11, 2015

I believe Jesus meant exactly that. He would send himself. He would send His own spirit presence.

...

Jesus did not say He will send His "spirit presence". Here again:

KJV John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

He sent the Spirit, not Himself.

March 11, 2015

No, I have not. Did that book influence you that much? It's the Bible that influenced me more.

Another dig.

March 11, 2015

Jesus did not say He will send His "spirit presence". Here again:

KJV John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

He sent the Spirit, not Himself.

He did not say it in THOSE EXACT WORDS.

He said, "I will come to you."

He said, "I in them".

He said, "I am with you always."

March 11, 2015

If I've just been talking to Sally on the phone, and then my husband says, "Who called?"

I would say, "Sally". Right?

But WAS it really Sally herself? No - it was an electronic transmission of Sally's voice.

We were created with a receiver in our brains, that can "hear" Christ speaking to each one of us.

He is NOT physically present in a human body. No.

But He IS present - by His Spirit - to speak with us.

March 11, 2015

Samie,

I agree with 'Sis Rachel". She responds to your questions objectively and honestly; and in your own way, you put her down in a very condescending and denigrating manner. From the outside, it seems like you are trying to discredit her personally rather than counter her logic.

You're right - this is a discussion board -it is not a place to subtly devalue and insult others who happen to disagree with your position; and then play innocent.

That's expected of one who believes in Sister Rachel's teachings.

You notice that I rarely get involved in threads where you are active any more. It's because you wore me out and with your nits and petty dives into meaningless detail. If being saved is as difficult and complicated of a road as you make it sound, you might be the only one there.

No, I do not take notice of who gets involved in my threads. I just post what I believe is truth from Scriptures. Who gets involved in my threads is not my concern.

March 11, 2015

I need to make supper. See ya later.

March 11, 2015

"That's expected of one who believes in Sister Rachel's teachings."

I DO accept a lot of Rachels' teachings (not hers, but God's); but Believe me; I don't swallow them all. I accept a lot of what you teach too (not yours; but God's); but I don't swallow it all. The difference between Rachel and you is that she does not go out of her way to insult and disrespect you when she disagrees with you.

March 11, 2015

If I've just been talking to Sally on the phone, and then my husband says, "Who called?"

I would say, "Sally". Right?

But WAS it really Sally herself? No - it was an electronic transmission of Sally's voice.

We were created with a receiver in our brains, that can "hear" Christ speaking to each one of us.

He is NOT physically present in a human body. No.

But He IS present - by His Spirit - to speak with us.

You're almost there. That's what I mean.

The phone is not Sally. Sally spoke to you through the phone.

By comparison, Jesus is Sally. The Spirit is the phone.

To say that Jesus is the Spirit, is to say that Sally is the phone. But Sally is not the phone as Jesus is not the Spirit.

March 11, 2015

"That's expected of one who believes in Sister Rachel's teachings."

I DO accept a lot of Rachels' teachings (not hers, but God's); but Believe me; I don't swallow them all. I accept a lot of what you teach too (not yours; but God's); but I don't swallow it all. The difference between Rachel and you is that she does not go out of her way to insult and disrespect you when she disagrees with you.

Where you think I insulted her in any of my posts, is not my intention at all. But I do respect it is how you see it.

March 11, 2015

. .

If being saved is as difficult and complicated of a road as you make it sound, you might be the only one there.

It just appeared difficult to you. Actually it's very simple. See a recent post of mine

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