I know this is going to fly in the face of many people but, truth is truth.

[8thdaypriest]

You're almost there. That's what I mean.

 

The phone is not Sally. Sally spoke to you through the phone.

 

By comparison, Jesus is Sally. The Spirit is the phone. 

 

To say that Jesus is the Spirit, is to say that Sally is the phone. But Sally is not the phone as Jesus is not the Spirit.

The "phone" is NOT a BEING. 

 

Jesus IS a Divine BEING.

[8thdaypriest]

 It just appeared difficult to you. Actually it's very simple. See a recent post of mine

Now you're denigrating Joe.

[8thdaypriest]

Did I mention that I also have a Master's Degree in Counseling Services. 

I recognize disrespectful words when I read them.

[Samie]

Did I mention that I also have a Master's Degree in Counseling Services. 

...

You just mentioned it.

 

...

I recognize disrespectful words when I read them.

Were you also taught to read one's intentions as well?

 

But let's get back to Sally, instead.

 

Sally talked to you through the phone; and you said Sally is not the phone.

Jesus talks to us through the Holy Spirit; yet you say Jesus is the Spirit.

 

Where's the consistency?

[Stan]

No, I have not. Did that book influence you that much? It's the Bible that influenced me more.

 

 

Samie, more conversation and less confrontation,...  will always work better.

[8thdaypriest]

Let's see if I can explain WHAT I believe.

 

1.  God is Spirit. (John 4)

2.  We are to worship the Father. (John 4)

3.  The Father IS and always has been omnipresent.  That means HE is everywhere, and in everything, and through everything. 

4.  The Son existed in the exact image (likeness) of His Father - prior to His incarnation.

5.  This means that the Son was ALSO OMNIPRESENT - prior to His incarnation.

6.  The Son gave up (set aside, emptied Himself of) His divine powers - including His ability to be omnipresent, WHEN He incarnated.

7.  When the Son of God ascended and was then glorified - with the glory that He had (before the world was)

His divine power was THEN RESTORED - enabling HIM to be omnipresent once again. 

8.  He (Christ) immediately sent His presence upon His waiting disciples.  HE would be "with them" and "in them". 

 

The "spirit of Christ" during the Old Testament period was the pre-incarnate Son of God.

 

"the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow" (1Pe 1:11 NKJ).

 

 

The "spirit of Christ" in the New Testament is the glorified Son of God. 

 

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. (Rom 8:9 NKJ)

 

In this passage: "the Spirit of God" = "the Spirit of Christ".

 

"The testimony of Jesus IS the spirit of prophecy" ( Rev. 19:10). 

 

In other words, the spirit of prophecy IS Jesus testifying to us. 

[Samie]

Samie, more conversation and less confrontation,...  will always work better.

Thanks, Stan. But I mean no confrontation.

 

When Rachel called my attention that I was disrespecting her because I said "It is absurd to say ...", I see no insult in that statement. Yet she said I was disrespectful. It was her perception of what I wrote, not that I deliberately disrespected her in that post.

 

She was talking about Paul talking 13 times about the Father and the Son without mention of the Spirit, and then ended her post with Paul forgetting the Spirit 13 times. I countered with Luke writing 33 times - 7 times mentioning Jesus and Spirit, 26 times mentioning the Spirit alone - without mentioning the Father, and I ended up saying it would be absurd to say that Luke forgot the Father 33 times.

 

But if that word "absurd" is the reason for all these, then I stand corrected.

[Samie]

. . .

 

The "spirit of Christ" during the Old Testament period was the pre-incarnate Son of God.

 

"the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow" (1Pe 1:11 NKJ).

. . .

 

If the Spirit of Christ is Christ Himself, why would Peter say: "when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ"?

 

If Peter knew that Jesus was also the Spirit, he would have said: "when He testified beforehand His sufferings".

[Scuba]

But Jesus said He will send the Spirit. I don't think Jesus means He will send Himself:

 

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

I see no reason why Jesus is also the Spirit in the verse above.

 

The Spirit of the Father is His power and presence and the Spirit of Jesus is His power and presence. Could it be that the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of the Son is the same Spirit flowing through from the Father through the Son?

 

John 14:16-18 And I (Jesus) will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate (Spirit of Christ) to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth (Spirit of Christ). The world cannot accept him (Spirit of Christ), because it neither sees him (Spirit of Christ) nor knows him (Spirit of Christ). But you know him (Spirit of Christ), for he (Spirit of Christ) lives with you and will be in you. I (Spirit of Christ) will not leave you as orphans; I (Spirit of Christ) will come to you.

 

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God.

 

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

 

Colossians 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

 

There is one Spirit that flows through the Father to all.

 

1 Corinthians 12:3-11 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

1 Peter 1:10-12 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ...

[Samie]

Scriptures EXPLICITLY mentions the existence of the Holy Spirit, separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.

 

1. The Father and the Holy Spirit sent the Son.

2. The Holy Spirit descended upon the Son at His baptism while the Father spoke in heaven.

3. The Holy Spirit led the Son to the wilderness where He was tempted by the adversary.

4. The Son said He MUST go to the Father so that He can send down the Holy Spirit.

5. Filled with the Holy Spirit, Stephen saw the Son at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

6. In one sentence, Paul tells of One Spirit (the Holy Spirit), One Lord (the Son), One God (the Father)

7. Through the Spirit, the Son offered Himself to the Father.

[Scuba]

Scriptures EXPLICITLY mentions the existence of the Holy Spirit, separate and distinct from both the Father and the Son.

 

1. The Father and the Holy Spirit sent the Son.

2. The Holy Spirit descended upon the Son at His baptism while the Father spoke in heaven.

3. The Holy Spirit led the Son to the wilderness where He was tempted by the adversary.

4. The Son said He MUST go to the Father so that He can send down the Holy Spirit.

5. Filled with the Holy Spirit, Stephen saw the Son at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

6. In one sentence, Paul tells of One Spirit (the Holy Spirit), One Lord (the Son), One God (the Father)

7. Through the Spirit, the Son offered Himself to the Father.

 

There is one Spirit manifesting as Father flowing to and through a child whether Jesus, Adam or us.

 

John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

 

One spirit also equates to unity of purpose or of same a mindset.

 

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel.

 

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;

 

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

 

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

Ephesians 2:18 For through Him we both have access by one spirit to the Father.

 

When we interact with the Father it's a manifestation of a certain role of Spirit. When we interact with the Son it's by the same Spirit manifesting the role of a Son. It's a complicated thing to grasp, let alone, explain. When come into agreement with God we are of one mindset, one spirit, the spirit of unity.

 

Ephesians 4:3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.

 

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

[8thdaypriest]

The Spirit of the Father is His power and presence and the Spirit of Jesus is His power and presence. Could it be that the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of the Son is the same Spirit flowing through from the Father through the Son?

 

John 14:16-18 And I (Jesus) will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate (Spirit of Christ) to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth (Spirit of Christ). The world cannot accept him (Spirit of Christ), because it neither sees him (Spirit of Christ) nor knows him (Spirit of Christ). But you know him (Spirit of Christ), for he (Spirit of Christ) lives with you and will be in you. I (Spirit of Christ) will not leave you as orphans; I (Spirit of Christ) will come to you.

 

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God.

 

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

 

Colossians 1:27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

 

There is one Spirit that flows through the Father to all.

 

1 Corinthians 12:3-11 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

 

1 Peter 1:10-12 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ...

Thank you Scuba.  I agree.

 

Once the Son of God took on limited human nature, He became dependent upon His Father for power.

I believe that it is indeed the Spirit of the Father, which He gave to His Son "without measure", enabling His Son to once again be omnipresent as "the Comforter". 

The Son was THUS "glorified with the glory that He had" with the Father, "before the world was". 

[8thdaypriest]

I would like to address the greetings and benedictions in the letters of Paul.  These are not just casual conversation.  These are greetings and benedictions.

This is Paul's STANDARD GREETING.

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 1:7).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:3).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Cor 1:2).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Galatians 1:3).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:2).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Colossians 1:2).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 1:1).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thessalonians 1:2).

 

"Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 1:2).

 

"Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Timothy 1:2).

 

"Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Titus 1:4).

 

"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Philemon 1:3).

 

 

If Paul believed that a THIRD divine being inspired him, or called him, or spoke to him, OR blesses us - I think he would have included that Being in his greetings.

I'm NOT saying that this PROOF that there are only TWO Divine beings - God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm saying that a rookie detective would notice, and would think significant the lack of mention. 

 

It is NOT PROOF.  It IS just another piece of the evidence - lending weight to my belief that "there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things" (1Cor. 8:6)

- "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:6).

[8thdaypriest]

Was Jesus speaking of Himself in the third person - "he" or "his" or "him" ?

 

Jesus speaking:

 

"I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees Him nor knows Him, but you know Him, for He dwells with you, and will be in you.  I will not leave you orphans.  I will come to you."  (John 14:16-18).

 

"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you."  (John 14:26). 

 

Other passages where Jesus spoke of Himself in "third person" as "He".

 

Matthew 8:20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." (NKJ)

 

Matthew 13:41 "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, (NKJ)

 

Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. (NKJ)

 

Matthew 16:28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." (NKJ)

 

Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. (Mat 25:31 NKJ)

 

 

I just quoted the ones from Matthew because many of the same statements are repeated in Mark, Luke, and John. 

 

Jesus spoke of HIS FUTURE SELF in the "third person" - maybe because He would be "different" then, from His present self (a limited human in mortal flesh). 

 

His statements concerning the Comforter to come (FUTURE) may fall into that same FUTURE difference in HIS OWN NATURE when He would be "glorified".

 

It is NOT PROOF.  But it is suggestive.  It is a piece of the evidence, building a case for TWO Divine Beings - not three.  

 

The only way we KNOW that Jesus is "the Son of Man" is because of passages like Matthew 16:13. 

"He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Scuba]

Mark 3:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

[Samie]

It is true that Paul's greetings address the Father and the Son without mention of the Spirit. It does not mean however that those verses prove the Spirit does not distinctly exist.

 

There are likewise a number of times that Paul talks of the Spirit without mention of both the Father and the Son. It likewise does not mean that those verses prove the Father and the Son do not distinctly exist.

 

Taken together, all those verses prove the distinct existence of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

 

The use of the third person by Jesus comes as a result of His referring to Himself as the Son of Man. This is grammatically called for, otherwise, He will be leaving the impression that He is NOT the Son of Man in the particular verse. Let's cite one example:

 

NKJ Matthew 13:41

Case 1.  The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness

 

Now, let's try using the first person in this same verse:

 

Case 2. "The Son of Man will send out My angels, and they will gather out of My kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness"

 

We all know that the title "Son of Man" refers to Jesus, not only because He said so (Matt 16:13) but also because of how the Son of Man is  described in the verses themselves, so in Case 1 it is easy to conclude that the angels and the kingdom belong to the Son of Man and because Jesus is the Son of Man then the angels and the kingdom are His.

 

Not so in Case 2.

 

The angels and the kingdom belong to the speaker of the verse, not to the "Son of Man" mentioned.

 

Case 2 is the scenario in John 16:7:

 

KJV Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

Clearly, the Comforter referred to in the verse is NOT Jesus.

[Samie]

. . .

 

Jesus spoke of HIS FUTURE SELF in the "third person" - maybe because He would be "different" then, from His present self (a limited human in mortal flesh). 

 

His statements concerning the Comforter to come (FUTURE) may fall into that same FUTURE difference in HIS OWN NATURE when He would be "glorified".

 

. . .

 

Jesus also referred to his earthly state in the third person as the Son of Man in these 14 verses from Matthew (there are 10 in Mark, 14 in Luke; 7 in John):

 

Matthew 8:20   And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

Matthew 9:6 "But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins" -- then He said to the paralytic, "Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house."

Matthew 11:19   "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children."

Matthew 12:40   "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 13:37   He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

Matthew 16:13   When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"

Matthew 17:12   "But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands."

Matthew 17:22   Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, "The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men

Matthew 18:11   "For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 20:18   "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death

Matthew 20:28  "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for man

Matthew 26:2   "You know that after two days is the Passover, and the Son of Man will be delivered up to be crucified."

Matthew 26:24   "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born."

Matthew 26:45   Then He came to His disciples and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and resting? Behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners.

[Samie]

. . .

 

Jesus spoke of HIS FUTURE SELF in the "third person" - maybe because He would be "different" then, from His present self (a limited human in mortal flesh). 

 

. . .

 

Jesus also referred to His future self in the first person:

 

Matthew 26:29   "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom."

Mark 14:25   "Assuredly, I say to you, I will no longer drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."

John 6:44  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54   "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:3   "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

John 16:7   "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

[8thdaypriest]

If the Holy Spirit is a THIRD divine being, then WHY did Jesus have to "go away" ?

 

I believe He had to "go away" in order to be glorified, and once glorified He could not walk among humans.  They could not stand His shining presence. 

 

When Jesus appeared to John on Patmos, He was a glorious being with "eyes like a flame of fire".  "His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength" and John "fell at is feet as dead". 

 

The shining "man" that John saw, compares with Daniel 7, and Ezekiel's vision, and the Being described as "the God of Israel" standing on the sapphire stone pavement as clear as the sky itself. (Exo 24:10 CJB). 

 

I believe He had to "go away" in order to be glorified - so that His Father could restore to Him the power to be omnipresent. 

Just as soon as He was glorified, He poured out the Spirit upon His waiting disciples.

 

John the Baptist said it.  "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Mat 3:11 NKJ).

 

"I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." (Mar 1:8 NKJ)

 

"He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Luk 3:16 NKJ).

 

I do not think it a coincidence, that the Spirit descended on the very day - at the very hour - that Jesus was glorified. 

 

Acts 2:33  “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He [Christ] poured out this which you now see and hear” (NAS).
 

[8thdaypriest]

Ephesians 3:14-18  “For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith.”

        The Spirit of the Father - flowing through His Son, enables Christ to dwell in us. Both the Father and the Son live in us. We partake of their nature - and we are thus changed - and healed.

I don't see a THIRD being in this verse.

 

    Romans 8:11  “But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”    

        According to 1Peter 1:3; Galatians 1:1; and Ephesians 1:17-20, THE FATHER raised Christ from the dead. 

 

Acts 2:38  “Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

    The Holy Spirit is the gift.  This gift originates with the Father, and is given to us by the Father, through the medium of Christ His Son.

 

James 1:17-18  “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.”

 

John 15:26  “But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who [or which] proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.”

[Samie]

If the Holy Spirit is a THIRD divine being, then WHY did Jesus have to "go away" ?

 

. . .

 

 

Jesus Himself gave the reason why:

 

KJV John 16:7   Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

[Samie]

. . .

I don't see a THIRD being in this verse.

 

. . .

 

1. There are verses where only the Father is mentioned, but this does not mean the Son does not distinctly exist.

2. There are verses where only the Son is mentioned, but this does not mean the Father does not distinctly exist.

3. There are verses where only the Spirit is mentioned, but this does not mean the Father and the Son do not distinctly exist.

4. There are verses where only the Father and the Spirit are mentioned, but this does not mean the Son does not distinctly exist.

5. There are verses where only the Son and the Spirit are mentioned, but this does not mean the Father does not distinctly exist.

6. There are verses where only the Father and the Son are mentioned and this means the Spirit does not exist.

 

I am not really sure, but I guess many will say that statement #6 is inconsistent with the first 5.

[JoeMo]

"KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

 

This supports Rachel's assertion more than Samie's.  I am confident that Rachel had this exact verse in mind when she asked the question.  Jesus' presence as a high priest was required in heaven; so when He (now limited to a physical body) returned to preside over the heavenly temple, He sent His Spirit (omnipresent "God stuff") to be with us.  How else could He fulfill His promise to be with us even unto the end of the Age?

[Scuba]

Jesus Himself gave the reason why:

KJV John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Did you ever wonder way Jesus had to go to the Father before the Spirit could be sent? It's because He had to first become that life giving Spirit before He could be sent.

1 Corinthians 15:45 “The first man Adam became a living being.” d The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

[8thdaypriest]

Amen Scuba