One of the historical "markers" in the 70 weeks -- A.D. 27

May 27, 2015

So - let's just suppose, for a moment, that it IS an END TIME prophecy.

The "prince who is to come" whose people destroy the Temple, COULD be the same "king having fierce features" in Daniel 8:23-25, who is finally broken "without human hand".

To explain the Daniel 9 prophecy, the angel says to Daniel, "I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days."

Daniel 11:35 and 11:40 both mention "the time of the END". Daniel is told to "seal the book until the time of the END" (Dan 12:4). And finally Daniel is told, "you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the END of the days" (Dan 12:13). What "days"? Would that not be the 1260, or 1290, or 1335 that he was JUST told about? All of which fall within "a time, times, and a part".

So this is definitely ABOUT the Second Coming, and the resurrection at that event!

May 27, 2015

Daniel 9: mentions "one week", during which "He" (?? who) "will confirm a covenant with many". One week would be 7 years.

"In the midst of the week, he will bring an end to sacrifice and offering". So - that would be 3.5 years into THAT "week", leaving 3.5 more years of THAT week.

NKJ Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

Same amount of TIME.

KJV Daniel 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

SAME amount of TIME.

NKJ Revelation 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

NKJ Revelation 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

SAME PERIOD OF TIME.

NKJ Revelation 13:5 [Speaking of the Beast after his deadly wound is healed] And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

ALL mention the SAME period of time. The "woman" flees from the Serpent, AFTER she brings forth a "manchild" who is caught up to God's throne. So this is NOT speaking of a time period which occurred during the OT. The Beast is a last days power.

So - if this IS last days, then why not the half a week in Daniel 9 ??

The Hebrew does not allow the separation of the last week and the 62 weeks. It does allow for a distinct periods of time between the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks. The time periods are kinda the same because Jesus gave the example of the abomination of Daniel, and pointed to a future event that would happen that would be very similar, this is highlighting this fact. The Revelation shows this time period in many different ways, months, days...etc., The text wants you to take notice

revelation 12

and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days.

O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

May 27, 2015

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION

NRS Daniel 11:31 Forces sent by him shall occupy and profane the temple and fortress. They shall abolish the regular burnt offering and set up the abomination that makes desolate.

NRS Daniel 12:11 From the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that desolates is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred ninety days.

In these two verses it seems OBVIOUS that it's the BAD GUY who stops the sacrifices - NOT Jesus.

NIV Matthew 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,'spoken of through the prophet Daniel-- let the reader understand-- "

Mark quotes the same words of Christ.

Now - Christ COULD have been referring to Titus, standing within the holy ground limits of Jerusalem.

OR Jesus COULD have been referring to an image of the emperor, set up within the Temple court.

OR - Jesus could have been prophesying about something that would happen waaaaay down near the very close of this age, just before His return.

OR Jesus could have covered BOTH - with one prophesy. It DID work to get the Christians to flee the City.

We call it a dual prophecy. It has application in more than one event or place. Many, many of the verses describing the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians, apply with equal force to the destruction at the Second Coming.

Jesus was not referring to Titus standing at the Temple,or any image of the emperor. He was referring to the Antiochus persecutuion, and pointing forward to warn the faithful.

May 27, 2015

So Jesus was using future tense to refer to the past?

May 27, 2015

so 490 years becomes 2600 years?

No, it doesn't. 70 weeks = 490 days as illustrated in this chart

May 27, 2015

So Jesus was using future tense to refer to the past?

I am not understanding you?

May 27, 2015

No, it doesn't. 70 weeks = 490 days as illustrated in this chart

You must mean 490 years?

what i meant was 490 years (or days) cant be made to stretch across a period of 2600 years. The Hebrew does not allow for the separation of the 62 weeks and the final week. secondly, if the 490 years was projected into the 21 century or beyond, it would rip the context away from the intended audience.

This relegates the visions to be more of an esoteric divination that would not apply to the people it was written to

May 27, 2015

You must mean 490 years?

No, I don't. I mean 490 literal days.

May 27, 2015

Jesus said: "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation . . .", you said He was referring to Antiochus, an event in the past. That's why I asked whether He was using future tense to refer to the past.

May 27, 2015

You must mean 490 years?

what i meant was 490 years (or days) cant be made to stretch across a period of 2600 years. The Hebrew does not allow for the separation of the 62 weeks and the final week. secondly, if the 490 years was projected into the 21 century or beyond, it would rip the context away from the intended audience.

This relegates the visions to be more of an esoteric divination that would not apply to the people it was written to

Where did you study ancient Hebrew?

May 27, 2015

No, it doesn't. 70 weeks = 490 days as illustrated in this chart

I looked at your chart. Couldn't make much sense of it.

May 27, 2015

I think we all know that the word translated "week" is the word "seven".

One literal week was called a "seven". But six years of planting, followed by Sabbatical the rest year, was also called a "seven".

So 70 "sevens" COULD be either 490 days, or 490 years.

But it's not as easy as that. Did the "year" begin in the Spring, or in the Fall? Spring - right?

But the Jubilee year began in the Fall at Yom Kippur.

So there was the "jubilee" in there every 50 years, which BEGAN in the Fall at Yom Kippur, half way through the 7th year of the seven. So that would only 6 "sevens" plus 6 months + 10 days.

I could not determine from my study just WHEN they began the next "seven" count. Did it begin again with the next Yom Kippur (which ended Jubilee) OR did they finish the seven that was interrupted, and then start the NEXT 7 count in the Spring with Nissan One?

In 490 years you would have 9 Jubilees. So do we subtract 9 whole years from the count, or only 4.5 years from the count?

Or do we just forget about Jubilee, because Israel NEVER kept it?

May 27, 2015

From the middle of the 70th "week" to the end of that week would be 1260 days (if you count the year as 360 days = original Sanctuary time).

The ONLY way THAT is going to happen, is if we have a near miss "fly-by" of a large body from the heavens, that pulls our orbit back into a 360 days orbit, rather than a 356 days orbit.

At the END of 1260 days of persecution by the Little Horn (of the Beast power), the heavenly court sits, and dominion is taken from SATAN and is given to "the saints of the most high" (Daniel 7:25-27).

In Revelation cpt eleven, after 42 months of witness in sackcloth, the two witnesses are killed and then resurrected (3.5 days later) and ascend to heaven, when the voice of God calls them.

BOTH of these suggest the time periods END with the Second Coming.

I have a hard time getting 1260 days (42 months) of persecution INTO 490 days, much less into 3.5 literal days (the last half of the 70th week). There is something not computing here.

Edited May 28, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

May 28, 2015

What about 490 years before the Second Coming??

I personally believe that Jesus will RETURN 2000 years from when He LEFT. So that would be 2030, or 2031, or 2033 depending on which year Jesus died.

490 years BACK from 2033, is 1543. Was there any decree, or command concerning the restoration of Jerusalem, in that year or in 1541, or in 1540??

May 28, 2015

The Greek word for "prince" means ruler or chief leader. It's POSSIBLE that "anointed prince" might be an anointed High Priest - of a rededicated Temple on the Mount.

May 28, 2015

To make the 490 years into 490 days is not even in the relm of plausibility. The Hebrew shows the 7 weeks and 63 weeks as two distinct time periods with something happening at the end/beginning of both. This is why there are 2 anointed individuals/leaders mentioned not one anointed. The last week is connected to the 62 weeks. The last week is one week, not half a week and then the other half arriving at some time later. This has to be read into the text.

So, if it is actually 70 weeks, that would be under a year and a half. In that time, a word would have to be decreed to rebuild Jerusalem, then Jerusalem would have to be rebuilt with infrastructure, the Temple would have to be rebuilt, along with a functioning priesthood and sacrifice, then in a week, a person would have to wage war, decimate the temple and sacrifice, the Jews would have to win a war, and then resume sacrifice

May 28, 2015

From the middle of the 70th "week" to the end of that week would be 1260 days (if you count the year as 360 days = original Sanctuary time).

The ONLY way THAT is going to happen, is if we have a near miss "fly-by" of a large body from the heavens, that pulls our orbit back into a 360 days orbit, rather than a 356 days orbit.

At the END of 1260 days of persecution by the Little Horn (of the Beast power), the heavenly court sits, and dominion is taken from SATAN and is given to "the saints of the most high" (Daniel 7:25-27).

In Revelation cpt eleven, after 42 months of witness in sackcloth, the two witnesses are killed and then resurrected (3.5 days later) and ascend to heaven, when the voice of God calls them.

BOTH of these suggest the time periods END with the Second Coming.

I have a hard time getting 1260 days (42 months) of persecution INTO 490 days, much less into 3.5 literal days (the last half of the 70th week). There is something not computing here.

a big mistake is to fuse the book of Daniel and the book of revelation together, they are two separate events. Read each one in context to their audience. The book of Daniel can be read in isolation and very little of its literary content rely on the books of the bible before it. The book of revelation depends on the whole bible to gain its meaning. It is pure brilliance as it ties in the whole bible to paint the picture of a victorious Jesus in Heaven.

to tie in the book of daniel and revelation is the source of wrong theology, and even human suffering in the last 100 years. first of all, the institutions of covennant Israel have to be projected into the 21 century-this is why dispensationalists believe that sacrifice and a temple will be re-instated, the same group believes in a two covenant philosophy with animal sacrifices atoning for sin. Christian zionists have created a living hell and a form of apartheid for palestinians living in occupied territories due to a race favoritism. Yet they herd Jews into Israel with end time drooling lips waiting in earnest for 2/3 of them to be slaughtered in a sea of blood that reaches the heights of a horses bridal.

Ideas have consequences

May 30, 2015

a big mistake is to fuse the book of Daniel and the book of revelation together, they are two separate events. Read each one in context to their audience. The book of Daniel can be read in isolation and very little of its literary content rely on the books of the bible before it. The book of revelation depends on the whole bible to gain its meaning. It is pure brilliance as it ties in the whole bible to paint the picture of a victorious Jesus in Heaven.

to tie in the book of daniel and revelation is the source of wrong theology, and even human suffering in the last 100 years. first of all, the institutions of covennant Israel have to be projected into the 21 century-this is why dispensationalists believe that sacrifice and a temple will be re-instated, the same group believes in a two covenant philosophy with animal sacrifices atoning for sin. Christian zionists have created a living hell and a form of apartheid for palestinians living in occupied territories due to a race favoritism. Yet they herd Jews into Israel with end time drooling lips waiting in earnest for 2/3 of them to be slaughtered in a sea of blood that reaches the heights of a horses bridal.

Ideas have consequences

I do NOT support the "two covenant" theory, wherein Jews are saved by "works of the law" while Gentile converts are "saved by grace". I am certainly NOT one who sends money to the present nation of Israel (except thru my taxes to the feds of course). Israel has in the past served as a buffer against Islamic expansion, but not so much any longer. I do think it appropriate that Jews have a safe place to call home, after persecution for nearly 2000 years. As for the Palestinians, if a "neighbor" had sworn to see you DEAD, wouldn't you want to keep them at a distance?????

The present nation of Israel calls itself "a Jewish state" (to quote the PM). They censor Christian material to prevent its entering the country - including on the internet. some 80+ percent of citizens are secular - having no belief in God. Do you really believe that God can bless such a people? Personally, I believe Israel is vulnerable to being used of Satan for his purposes.

As for using Daniel to understand the prophecies of Revelation - OF COURSE !! I use EVERY Old Testament book to find clues to the understanding of Revelation.

Paul studied the OT for many years, to prove to himself and other Jews that Jesus was the Christ.

May 30, 2015

I do NOT support the "two covenant" theory, wherein Jews are saved by "works of the law" while Gentile converts are "saved by grace". I am certainly NOT one who sends money to the present nation of Israel (except thru my taxes to the feds of course). Israel has in the past served as a buffer against Islamic expansion, but not so much any longer. I do think it appropriate that Jews have a safe place to call home, after persecution for nearly 2000 years. As for the Palestinians, if a "neighbor" had sworn to see you DEAD, wouldn't you want to keep them at a distance?????

The present nation of Israel calls itself "a Jewish state" (to quote the PM). They censor Christian material to prevent its entering the country - including on the internet. some 80+ percent of citizens are secular - having no belief in God. Do you really believe that God can bless such a people? Personally, I believe Israel is vulnerable to being used of Satan for his purposes.

As for using Daniel to understand the prophecies of Revelation - OF COURSE !! I use EVERY Old Testament book to find clues to the understanding of Revelation.

Paul studied the OT for many years, to prove to himself and other Jews that Jesus was the Christ.

I was not suggesting you believed in those doctrines, just giving an example of what can happen when Daniel and Revelation are fused to be one prophesy of the same event. The other side of the coin is that the institutions of the assembly of faith before the cross mentioned in Daniel would have to have allegory attached to them if projected in our time. sacrifice means this or that, the Temple means this or that ...etc.,

May 30, 2015

I looked at your chart. Couldn't make much sense of it.

Like what, for example, Sis Rachel?

May 30, 2015

I think we all know that the word translated "week" is the word "seven".

One literal week was called a "seven". But six years of planting, followed by Sabbatical the rest year, was also called a "seven".

So 70 "sevens" COULD be either 490 days, or 490 years.

The word "SEVEN" (7) is the Hebrew [b;v, sheba`

The word "WEEK" is the Hebrew [;buv' shabua`

Same consonants; different vowel markings (diacritical marks). In KJV Dan 9:25, the phrase "SEVEN WEEKS" is from the Hebrew phrase ['_b.vi ~y[iÞbuv' (shabuim sheba, read from right to left)

May 30, 2015

To make the 490 years into 490 days is not even in the relm of plausibility. The Hebrew shows the 7 weeks and 63 weeks as two distinct time periods with something happening at the end/beginning of both. This is why there are 2 anointed individuals/leaders mentioned not one anointed. The last week is connected to the 62 weeks. The last week is one week, not half a week and then the other half arriving at some time later. This has to be read into the text.

So, if it is actually 70 weeks, that would be under a year and a half. In that time, a word would have to be decreed to rebuild Jerusalem, then Jerusalem would have to be rebuilt with infrastructure, the Temple would have to be rebuilt, along with a functioning priesthood and sacrifice, then in a week, a person would have to wage war, decimate the temple and sacrifice, the Jews would have to win a war, and then resume sacrifice

When you say "it can't be done", it doesn't necessarily follow that it can't actually be done. And Scriptures do not say "Jerusalem would have to be rebuilt", etc.:

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

May 30, 2015

When you say "it can't be done", it doesn't necessarily follow that it can't actually be done. And Scriptures do not say "Jerusalem would have to be rebuilt", etc.:

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁵Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a troubled time.

To rebuild a city and temple that was burnt down and plundered by the Babylonians would be more than streets and a moat/wall. It is not giving a comprehensive list of the repairs, it is giving an example of a rebuild. If streets and walls are ruined, then that would signify the whole city was destroyed.

The term "know and understand" is given to Daniel. How much knowledge and understanding could have daniel or the Jews in exile mustered in order to know and understand a 21 century rebuild? The decree to rebuild come shortly in Daniel-this was the first step in knowing and understanding. Walls were an ancient defense, and the post exilic books of the bible describe them building walls after the word was given by cyrus to rebuild

June 1, 2015

²⁵Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a troubled time.

To rebuild a city and temple that was burnt down and plundered by the Babylonians would be more than streets and a moat/wall. It is not giving a comprehensive list of the repairs, it is giving an example of a rebuild. If streets and walls are ruined, then that would signify the whole city was destroyed.

The term "know and understand" is given to Daniel. How much knowledge and understanding could have daniel or the Jews in exile mustered in order to know and understand a 21 century rebuild? The decree to rebuild come shortly in Daniel-this was the first step in knowing and understanding. Walls were an ancient defense, and the post exilic books of the bible describe them building walls after the word was given by cyrus to rebuild

The issue is the WHEN of the going out of the word or decree, NOT the COMPLETION of what were contained in the word. The completion mentioned referred to only the streets and the moat, but you want that the WHOLE of Jerusalem rebuilt.

June 1, 2015

The issue is the WHEN of the going out of the word or decree, NOT the COMPLETION of what were contained in the word. The completion mentioned referred to only the streets and the moat, but you want that the WHOLE of Jerusalem rebuilt.

This refers to the infrastructure of a city, so it is pointing to the city being rebuilt. The post exile books of the bible refer to these actions-and it took longer than 490 days

Edited June 1, 2015 by brotherly love

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One of the historical "markers" in the 70 weeks -- A.D. 27

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