Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said: Yes. I don't recall if you ever commented on Romans 10. If you did, I'm sorry, but I don't remember your thought. This is clearly not speaking of the faith of Jesus, but faith in Jesus. I've brought this up to you many times, but don't recall your responding, but if you did, I don't remember it (sorry), so, yes, I would like you to respond. What is it you don't understand, brother? I am saying the faith you and I are exercising is the faith of the Son of God. Or you have your own faith that did not come from God? Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Wingnut said: Faith is so central to the Christian message. Obviously God wants people with faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. The fact that only those with faith receive eternal life is a proof against the whole future being cast in stone. God is going to take us to new situations where we are going to need faith to follow Him, now and forever. And is that faith your own or is it the faith of Jesus that God gave you? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, Samie said: What is it you don't understand, brother? I am saying the faith you and I are exercising is the faith of the Son of God. Or you have your own faith that did not come from God? As I wrote, I understand faith to be a heart appreciation of the love of God which is revealed at the cross. Basically, we see a picture of God which melts our hearts, and leads us to repentance at the foot of the cross. Of course, God gives us the ability to do so, but we are the ones who need to decide to respond, and that response is faith, our faith, faith we exercise, the ability of which was given to us by God, but it is we who make the decision to respond, and that response is faith, our faith. Back to Romans 10. This is speaking of the action of the believer. This is "faith in Jesus". It is not "faith of Jesus". There is nothing in the Greek to suggest this. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 Do you have your own faith other than the faith of Jesus that God gave you? Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 For me, the faith I have is the faith of Jesus that God gave me. I just want to know whether Pnatt and Wingnut have faiths of their own other than the faith of Jesus God gave them. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Just now, Samie said: Do you have your own faith other than the faith of Jesus that God gave you? I don't think this question makes sense. Faith is a heart appreciation of the love of God revealed at the cross. This is something which happens in my mind, as I process information which the Holy Spirit is revealing to me. So, in this context, what does your question mean? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 You are back again to your own self. Good day, my brother. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 Back to Wingnut: Do you have your own faith other than the faith of Jesus God gave you? Quote
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 pnattmbtc You may know this or not. Sadie's philosophy rests on it being the faith OF Jesus, and falls if it is faith IN Jesus. Just so you know the stakes of this preposition. If it is the faith OF Jesus, Samie can assert that this faith is in all, maybe from the foundation of the world, maybe even to write their names in the BOL. Am I right Samie? You have it all riding on this answer. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Samie said: You are back again to your own self. Good day, my brother. This isn't responsive. Do you believe we need to be converted? To be saved? Yes or no? If the answer is yes, how does this happen? It happens when God reveals something to us, and we respond to that which God has revealed. This is what I believe. I would like you to answer clearly, yes or no works, if you agree with this. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 To be clear, what I'm asking is, can a person go to heaven (be an overcomer, to use your language) without being converted? And can a person be converted without responding to what God has revealed? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 To us it does not matter if it is faith of Jesus or faith in Jesus, both pertain. These verses prove it. Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in JesusChrist, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 Why are you two so AFRAID of answering a simple question? I just want to know FIRST whether you have faith that is your own distinct and different from what God has given you which is the Faith of His own Son. Is that too difficult a question for you to answer, my brothers? It's either a Yes, No, or I don't know. Plus perhaps a short explanation. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 I'm waiting for your answers, gentlemen . . . Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I answered you Samie. Please respond to my question. If you don't understand what I wrote, please quote it, and ask a question about what I wrote, but please don't say I didn't respond to your question when I did, and please don't ignore my question. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I have faith in Jesus, and faith of Jesus. The way Jesus gives us faith is through the Holy Spirit helping our unbelief. So definitely both. I too have to believe. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 To be clear, Samie, I don't know what you mean; your question doesn't make sense to me as you speak in terms of "faith of Jesus". Are you saying that Jesus takes possession of our mental faculties and exercises His ability to believe? What you are writing doesn't make sense to me. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Samie, please answer my questions regarding conversion. I want to know if we're on the same page regarding conversion; what it is, and its importance. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 Thank you, brother Wingnut. And Happy Sabbath. It's Sabbath now here where I am. And Happy Sabbath, too, brother Pnatt. I am enjoying our discussion. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, Wingnut said: I have faith in Jesus, and faith of Jesus. The way Jesus gives us faith is through the Holy Spirit helping our unbelief. So definitely both. I too have to believe. So, are you saying the faith that you are exercising to believe is the faith of Jesus that God gave you? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 When you say "the faith that Jesus gave you" what does that mean? Faith is an action which occurs in our mind; it's not a thing like an arm or leg. How would God give us an action which occurs in our mind? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Happy Sabbath, btw. Still working here. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Samie said: Thank you, brother Wingnut. And Happy Sabbath. It's Sabbath now here where I am. And Happy Sabbath, too, brother Pnatt. I am enjoying our discussion. Thank you Samie. Its nearly midnight for you, and Sabbath about to begin for me, and 7 hours to go for pantmbtc. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 So, are you saying the faith that you are exercising to believe is the faith of Jesus that God gave you, Wingnut? Quote
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