Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Samie said: So, are you saying the faith that you are exercising to believe is the faith of Jesus that God gave you? I understand the concept of imputed faith meaning God gives added faith. And I understand the concept of free will that I choose to believe or not in Jesus. That is why I said both. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Wingnut said: I understand the concept of imputed faith meaning God gives added faith. And I understand the concept of free will that I choose to believe or not in Jesus. That is why I said both. Do you agree that believing is exercising faith? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Samie said: Do you agree that believing is exercising faith? Do you think exercising faith is an act of the mind? If so, whose mind? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 Are you still there, bro. Wingnut? Quote
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Samie said: Do you agree that believing is exercising faith? Yes. Quote
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Posted October 30, 2015 It's past midnight now. Looks like Bro. Wingnut Just now, Wingnut said: Yes. Oh, thanks. And since it is now past midnight from where I am, can you just allow this brother to obey the law of health and go to bed first? I'll be up a few hours later. Good-night, brethren. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Wingnut, what do you think of the idea that God is drawing all to Himself and only those who refuse to be drawn will be lost? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Samie said: It's past midnight now. Looks like Bro. Wingnut Oh, thanks. And since it is now past midnight from where I am, can you just allow this brother to obey the law of health and go to bed first? I'll be up a few hours later. Good-night, brethren. Sleep well. Don't rush to get up - the facts will keep. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Rats, I'm going to have to ask the conversion questions again in the hopes of getting an answer. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Wingnut, what do you think of the idea that God is drawing all to Himself and only those who refuse to be drawn will be lost? Lets take the parable of the sower. God sows. Some falls among weeds (cares), some on stoney (not ready), some on thin layer of soil (enthusiastic start, fade at end) and some the birds (Satan) pluck up before it can germinate. I do have a slight reservation that it is the whole argument, your quote. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Wingnut, since you're still there, and Samie thinks you understand him, what do you think he has in mind by saying that God gives us the faith of Jesus? Do we exercise His faith? What's going on here? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Quote I do have a slight reservation that it is the whole argument, your quote. I don't know what you mean here. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 My belief is that MOST are not being drawn by God now. Those who are are called the "elect" a word meaning "chosen ones". If God calls all, why "chosen ones"? Quote
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: I don't know what you mean here. God is calling Kings and Priests now - top brass. He needs them to rule the earth. He even promised them rulership. Those not called now (for reasons known to God) will be called in the 8M. This resolves the problem of God willing all to be saved, when the vast majority of human history, Christ was not known. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Quote My belief is that MOST are not being drawn by God now. Those who are are called the "elect" a word meaning "chosen ones". If God calls all, why "chosen ones"? The chosen ones are the ones who respond. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Quote How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. I think this is constant. It's of God's doing, and He's constantly working at it. But circumstances can slow Him down or get in the way, but He is always working at drawing all to Himself. He has chosen to use human instruments in the process, which gums up things a lot. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. The question is Does the Father draw all? If He does then the success rate is low. I say not now. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Why wouldn't He draw all? He wants all to be saved. Have to agree His success rate is low :(. God suffers a lot. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 5 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Quote How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. I think this is constant. It's of God's doing, and He's constantly working at it. But circumstances can slow Him down or get in the way, but He is always working at drawing all to Himself. He has chosen to use human instruments in the process, which gums up things a lot. This is all correct. But not all are part of that drawing process in their lives. Ezek 37 describes folks being resurrected to "Hear the word of the Lord". They were spiritually dead when they died in this lifetime. Quote
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 I take every word of the following literally. Ezek 37 9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. 11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.... ... 24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Quote This is all correct. But not all are part of that drawing process in their lives. Ezek 37 describes folks being resurrected to "Hear the word of the Lord". They were spiritually dead when they died in this lifetime. I agree with this. People do all sorts of things to fight of God, sometimes on purpose, sometimes unconsciously. But is busy working, and they are refusing to be drawn. I think God waits for just the right moment to make urgent appeals, but He's always working in one way or another to draw and to save. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 Quote I take every word of the following literally. Why? Quote 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. This doesn't look literal. Also, you must have some point in mind. Please wax eloquent. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 One reason why God does not call all today is to me this simple. These 6 millennial days were given to Satan to rule with limited powers. If God called say a lone Saudi, he probably would be killed since families there do not tolerate family members becoming Christian. God, being pragmatic realises that even if He called a Saudi, or North Korean, and that person responded, he would be so unlikely to be nurtured. In fact it would be highly predisposed to failure. So God lets them be. He chains Satan. Then notice in Ezek how careful God is to call them the WHOLE house of Israel. Without exception they all are called then. Quote
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 If God raises from the graves Israel, then why not do the same for the Gentiles? I read the following verses as saying just that. Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here. One concept one has to get in mind. Judgment is not like a trial day when God gives a verdict and sentence. "Judgment" to God is folks living for as long as Adam lived before he fell, and living, and deciding to choose or not choose Christ. This sorting of sheep and goats occurs over a period of time (I speculate as long as God gave Adam before releasing Satan to test Adam). Quote
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Posted October 30, 2015 In this case, it's not necessary that a person respond to Christ in this lifetime, as they will get another change later. Did I understand correctly? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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