Who is the One New Man Created on the Cross?

[pnattmbtc]

Just now, Samie said:

Please quote the portion, if any, that caters to my question.

I did.

[Samie]

1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said:

I did.

Thank you, for showing nothing.

[pnattmbtc]

 

Quote

39"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. (John 5:39,40)

 

[pnattmbtc]

Just now, Samie said:

Thank you, for showing nothing.

Go back and look again.

[Samie]

1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said:

Go back and look again.

Done. Not there.

[pnattmbtc]

30 minutes ago, Samie said:

Done. Not there.

Yes it is. I don't understand the problem here.  Do you not see the post?

[pnattmbtc]

Are you saying you don't see that I posted something, or are you saying you don't think what I posted addresses the question?

The whole quote is very clear.  I'll post it again, I guess with commentary this time, but I don't think I can be any clearer than the quote is:

Quote

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of theworld." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8.  

1.The quote asks with the question, How are we to be saved?  It goes on to explain, based on John 3.

2.It quotes the illustration Christ used to explain the process of being born again.

3.The key to being saved is to behold the lamb of God.

4.The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God.

5.His love is drawing us to himself.

6.If we do not resist, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for our sins.

7.Then the Spirit of life through faith produces a new life in the soul.

I really don't understand how you can read this and not see the answer to your question.  You ask what the person does for 7 to happen; it's in items 1 through 6.

[pnattmbtc]

Also the quote in John 5 addresses the question of how we receive life.

[Wingnut]

1 hour ago, Samie said:

So what did the dead do so God can make him alive?

He did not one thing.  God shook him and he "woke up".

[Samie]

Just now, Wingnut said:

He did not one thing.  God shook him and he "woke up".

So the dead did NOTHING to PROMPT God to make  him alive. And that's what I'd been saying and you and Pnatt complain. So what are you complaining about?  Because it shows your position requiring the dead to first do something to be made alive is wrong?

[Wingnut]

1 minute ago, Samie said:

So the dead did NOTHING to PROMPT God to make  him alive. And that's what I'd been saying and you and Pnatt complain. So what are you complaining about?  Because it shows your position requiring the dead to first do something to be made alive is wrong?

I would love you to show me where my "position required the dead to first do something"?

I have said God calls?  The call wakes us up.  We respond, either by ignoring it, or coming to God or listening a little closer to what God says.

But my position starts with them "asleep" or "spiritually dead".  Thus the "asleep" first state proves you wrong since it is you who claims all start out right with God.

[Samie]

3 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

I would love you to show me where my "position required the dead to first do something"?

I have said God calls?  The call wakes us up.  We respond, either by ignoring it, or coming to God or listening a little closer to what God says.

But my position starts with them "asleep" or "spiritually dead".  Thus the "asleep" first state proves you wrong since it is you who claims all start out right with God.

Did God choose whom to call or did He choose who are to wake up when He calls? Please answer this so I would exactly know where you are coming from.

[Wingnut]

6 minutes ago, Samie said:

Did God choose whom to call or did He choose who are to wake up when He calls? Please answer this so I would exactly know where you are coming from.

To call is to wake up - they are one and the same.

[Samie]

5 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

To call is to wake up - they are one and the same.

So, was God choosy as to who to wake up?

[Wingnut]

3 minutes ago, Samie said:

So, was God choosy as to who to wake up?

yes

[Samie]

26 minutes ago, Samie said:

So, was God choosy as to who to wake up?

 

22 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

yes

Is there any criteria God set for one to be among the chosen? If Yes, then can you tell me what those are?

[Wingnut]

10 minutes ago, Samie said:

 

Is there any criteria God set for one to be among the chosen? If Yes, then can you tell me what those are?

God is not clear on this since here He exercises His free will.  Here is a scripture which implies that family members (children, spouses) tend to be called with one already chosen.

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

I presume God only calls those with the likelihood of making it.  The rest will be called in the 8M where responding will be easier, but their reward less.

Remember, God can call and by their response see whether to wake them up some more, or let them go back to sleep.  Many who sit in churches thinking they are called may be fast asleep.

[Samie]

17 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

God is not clear on this since here He exercises His free will.  Here is a scripture which implies that family members (children, spouses) tend to be called with one already chosen.

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

I presume God only calls those with the likelihood of making it.  The rest will be called in the 8M where responding will be easier, but their reward less.

Remember, God can call and by their response see whether to wake them up some more, or let them go back to sleep.  Many who sit in churches thinking they are called may be fast asleep.

And we are back to square one: How can one respond while yet dead?

[Samie]

29 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

I presume God only calls those with the likelihood of making it.  The rest will be called in the 8M where responding will be easier, but their reward less.

Isn't it dangerous to base one's belief on a mere presumption?

But if your presumption is true (but which is more likely to be untrue), then, since God is not sure whether who He calls will make it or not, what prevents Him from calling EVERYONE and thus give EVERYBODY the same chance now in this lifetime? Why wait till the 8M? And when the 8M comes, the same scenario reoccurs: God will call those with the likelihood of making it, and then wait for the next 8M to make the call again? Or are you saying He will call EVERYBODY not called now in the 8M?  If He can make the call for EVERYBODY in the 8M, why not make it now? Why wait till then? Sorry to ask this, but aren't you just making up things in your mind since all are your mere presumptions?

[Samie]

When I asked:

1 hour ago, Samie said:

Did God choose whom to call or did He choose who are to wake up when He calls? Please answer this so I would exactly know where you are coming from.

You replied:

1 hour ago, Wingnut said:

To call is to wake up - they are one and the same.

And to which I again asked:

1 hour ago, Samie said:

So, was God choosy as to who to wake up?

And you answered:

1 hour ago, Wingnut said:

yes

So I need to ask you:

1 hour ago, Samie said:

Is there any criteria God set for one to be among the chosen? If Yes, then can you tell me what those are?

To which your reply came:

51 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

God is not clear on this since here He exercises His free will.  Here is a scripture which implies that family members (children, spouses) tend to be called with one already chosen.

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

I presume God only calls those with the likelihood of making it.  The rest will be called in the 8M where responding will be easier, but their reward less.

Remember, God can call and by their response see whether to wake them up some more, or let them go back to sleep.  Many who sit in churches thinking they are called may be fast asleep.

If God is choosy as to who to call, and yet NOT sure whether one He actually calls will make it or not, this only means there are those among He did not call who could possibly make it had He called them. So why not make the call for EVERYONE now in this lifetime? Why wait till the 8M?  Because responding in the 8M will be easier compared with responding now?  Why not make responding now as easy as in the 8M?  And why not send Jesus back sooner and hasten the onset of the 8M?  To make things difficult for us? Is this how you portray the God of agape love?

[Wingnut]

1 hour ago, Samie said:

And we are back to square one: How can one respond while yet dead?

You do realise we are speaking about alive people who are spiritually dead/asleep.  The words "dead" and "asleep" are not literal but metaphorical.

And just as you wake someone from sleep so they can hear you further, so God wakes people by calling them.

That is as plain as I can make it.  The concept is so simple that I do not believe it is me explaining it badly.

 

How was Thailand?  My brother spent years there and loved it.  I have the travel channel on satellite/cable TV and have no inclination to go anywhere.

Presumably you have family or friends there or just like travel.  

 

[Wingnut]

42 minutes ago, Samie said:

When I asked:

You replied:

And to which I again asked:

And you answered:

So I need to ask you:

To which your reply came:

If God is choosy as to who to call, and yet NOT sure whether one He actually calls will make it or not, this only means there are those among He did not call who could possibly make it had He called them. So why not make the call for EVERYONE now in this lifetime? Why wait till the 8M?  Because responding in the 8M will be easier compared with responding now?  Why not make responding now as easy as in the 8M?  And why not send Jesus back sooner and hasten the onset of the 8M?  To make things difficult for us? Is this how you portray the God of agape love?

God learned that nations need good leadership (see Kings and Chronicles).  So he is preparing Kings and Priests now to rule the nations later.  The bar is higher for us now since we have to overcome ourselves, Satan, and an evil world.  In the 8M it will only be themselves to overcome.  That is why it will be easier for them to respond to the call successfully.

[Samie]

5 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

You do realise we are speaking about alive people who are spiritually dead/asleep.  The words "dead" and "asleep" are not literal but metaphorical.

And just as you wake someone from sleep so they can hear you further, so God wakes people by calling them.

That is as plain as I can make it.  The concept is so simple that I do not believe it is me explaining it badly.

Scriptures say that spiritual things are spiritually discerned. So to be spiritually alive is to me to be capable of doing spiritual acts like believing, etc.  The fact that people are capable of believing is, for me, proof enough they are spiritually alive and in that spiritual level of maturity where they are able to respond when presented with the message.

[Samie]

15 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

God learned that nations need good leadership (see Kings and Chronicles).  So he is preparing Kings and Priests now to rule the nations later.  The bar is higher for us now since we have to overcome ourselves, Satan, and an evil world.  In the 8M it will only be themselves to overcome.  That is why it will be easier for them to respond to the call successfully.

Before Kings & Chronicles, did God not yet know the need of good leadership in the future?

^NIV Isaiah 46:9-10   ⁹ Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.  ¹⁰I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.

[Wingnut]

31 minutes ago, Samie said:

The fact that people are capable of believing is, for me, proof enough they are spiritually alive and in that spiritual level of maturity where they are able to respond when presented with the message.

If you set the bar super low that all religions are OK, then sure you would believe they are spiritually alive.  People are born spiritually alive to Satan.

But the thing you have to prove is that they are born spiritually alive to the God of the Bible, and the historical Jesus.