pnattmbtc Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 16 minutes ago, Wingnut said: But my heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 49 minutes ago, Wingnut said: But my heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Is that so, brother? Then believe that through Christ, God has made you holy and perfect on the cross: NAS Hebrews 10:10-17 10 By this will we have been sanctified [or made holy] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. . . . 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws upon their heart, And upon their mind I will write them," He then says, 17 "And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 37 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Who can know it? Yet Samie says that my desperately wicked heart should be my guide? 8thdaypriest 1 Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 1 minute ago, Wingnut said: Yet Samie says that my desperately wicked heart should be my guide? Or did Samie say it is the Holy Spirit that guides us, by coaching us of what were written in our hearts and minds? Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 3 minutes ago, Samie said: Or did Samie say it is the Holy Spirit that guides us, by coaching us of what were written in our hearts and minds? Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things? How do I know when I am being deceived by my heart and when I am being guided by the Holy Spirit if you will give me no guidelines as to overcoming? Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 1 hour ago, Wingnut said: But my heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Why, oh why, can't people believe they had been made holy and perfect on the cross? What, or better yet, Who, prevents them from believing what God through Christ has done for us ALL on the cross? And yet they say they preach faith. Is that the result of their teaching that unless one first believes he can't be in Christ? Looks like it, in my opinion. Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 2 minutes ago, Samie said: Why, oh why, can't people believe they had been made holy and perfect on the cross? What, or better yet, Who, prevents them from believing what God through Christ has done for us ALL on the cross? And yet they say they preach faith. Is that the result of their teaching that unless one first believes he can't be in Christ? Looks like it, in my opinion. But you say ALL have been reconciled from birth. So who is left to have this heart which is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? And how do I know that I am not among them if you refuse to give me guidelines as to what "desperately wicked" means and how to overcome that? Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 Why ask Samie for your guidelines? Ask God, my brother. He it is Who writes His guidelines in your heart and mind. Who is Samie? Just like you, a sinner-made-saint on the cross. Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 3 minutes ago, Samie said: Why ask Samie for your guidelines? Ask God, my brother. He it is Who writes His guidelines in your heart and mind. Who is Samie? Just like you, a sinner-made-saint on the cross. So God wrote it into my heart and mind to be deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 7 minutes ago, Wingnut said: But you say ALL have been reconciled from birth. Yes, on the cross, not simply from birth. So who is left to have this heart which is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? None. The verse you were reading applies before the onset of the New Covenant. And how do I know that I am not among them . . . Simply believe you had been made holy and perfect on the cross as Scriptures tell us. . . . if you refuse to give me guidelines as to what "desperately wicked" means . . . you know it better than Samie does. . . . and how to overcome that? As I said earlier, ask God. He wrote His guidelines for you in your heart and mind. Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 4 minutes ago, Samie said: But you say ALL have been reconciled from birth. Yes, on the cross, not simply from birth. So who is left to have this heart which is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? None. The verse you were reading applies before the onset of the New Covenant. And how do I know that I am not among them . . . Simply believe you had been made holy and perfect on the cross as Scriptures tell us. . . . if you refuse to give me guidelines as to what "desperately wicked" means . . . you know it better than Samie does. . . . and how to overcome that? As I said earlier, ask God. He wrote His guidelines for you in your heart and mind. Did I read you correctly? You say none on earth today have hearts which are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 39 minutes ago, Samie said: Or did Samie say it is the Holy Spirit that guides us, by coaching us of what were written in our hearts and minds? Are you talking about something written in our hearts and minds when we didn't exist? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 7 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Did I read you correctly? You say none on earth today have hearts which are deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? All of Adam & Eve's descendants, Yes. There are earth-dwellers now who are the offspring of demons. Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 How do I know that I am not an offspring of demons? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Quote But you say ALL have been reconciled from birth. Yes, on the cross, not simply from birth. So who is left to have this heart which is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked? None. The verse you were reading applies before the onset of the New Covenant. It should be clear on the face of it that this idea doesn't make sense. First of all, it's an error to think that the onset of the New Covenant was at some time other than Eden, but assume for the sake of argument that it begins at some other time, say the cross (I'm guessing this is the time you have in mind). Then before AD 30 (or whatever date you want to use), there were all sorts of people with deceitful hearts running and round, but after that date, they're weren't. This is obviously not the case. One runs into deceitful hearts ever day (and there are deceitful mirrors to worry about too). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 10 minutes ago, Wingnut said: How do I know that I am not an offspring of demons? Do you believe you are an offspring of God? I believe, you are. Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 1 minute ago, Samie said: Do you believe you are an offspring of God? I believe, you are. I believe I am, but my heart may be deceitful? I hoped you had a more objective means of determining, e.g.. pupils with letterbox slits? Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 The New Covenant was ratified on the cross, yet applied nonetheless when Adam & Eve fell into sin. Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 2 minutes ago, Wingnut said: I believe I am, but my heart may be deceitful? I hoped you had a more objective means of determining, e.g.. pupils with letterbox slits? Don't doubt that in God's sight you are holy and perfect, since He made you so on the cross. You preach faith, hence, you know what it means to believe and not doubt. Quote
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 These demon-seed are lost no matter what - right? The rest are in the life-raft, hearts not deceived, in various stages of overcoming, names written in the BOL - right? Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 2 minutes ago, Wingnut said: These demon-seed are lost no matter what - right? The rest are in the life-raft, hearts not deceived, in various stages of overcoming, names written in the BOL - right? Right. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 12 minutes ago, Samie said: The New Covenant was ratified on the cross, yet applied nonetheless when Adam & Eve fell into sin. Indeed, which is why the deceitful heart verse is just as applicable now as it was then. Nothing has changed (at least not for the better) as far as deceitful hearts are concerned. What do you think a deceitful heart is? Do you think it necessitates our conversion? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Wingnut Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Those who don't believe in Christ are deceived - right? Quote
Samie Posted November 18, 2015 Author Posted November 18, 2015 Just now, Wingnut said: Those who don't believe in Christ are deceived - right? Because they chose to believe in lies instead of truth. They are non-overcomers, having been overcome by the evil of unbelief in truth. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 1 minute ago, Samie said: Because they chose to believe in lies instead of truth. They are non-overcomers, having been overcome by the evil of unbelief in truth. Why do they need to believe the truth? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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