Conservative ?

[skyblue888]

Red, I have responded to your last post on page 5. Thanks.

"A healthy man, who is able to attend to the vocations of life and who goes forth day after day to his labor with buoyant spirits and with a healthy current of blood flowing through his veins, does not call the attention of every one he meets to his soundness of body. Health and vigor are the natural conditions of his life, and therefore he is scarcely conscious that he is in the enjoyment of such a boon. Thus it is with the truly righteous man. He is unconscious of his goodness and piety. Religious principle has become the spring of his life and conduct, and it is just as natural for him to bear the fruits of the Spirit as for the fig tree to bear figs or for the rosebush to yield roses. His nature is so thoroughly imbued with love for God and his fellow men that he works the works of Christ with a willing heart...

"All who come within the sphere of his influence perceive the beauty and fragrance of His Christian life, while he himself is unconscious of it, for it is in harmony with his habits and inclinations. He prays for divine light, and loves to walk in that light. It is his meat and drink to do the will of His heavenly Father. His life is hid with Christ in God; yet he does not boast of this, nor seem conscious of it. God smiles upon the humble and lowly ones who follow closely in the steps of the Master. Angels are attracted to them, and love to linger about their path. They may be passed by as unworthy of notice by those who claim exalted attainments and who delight in making prominent their good works, but heavenly angels bend lovingly over them and are as a wall of fire round about them." E.G. White, The Sanctified Life, p.12,13.

[olger]

Impressive quotation.

olger

[Parade Orange]

yes

[skyblue888]

I thought so myself.

Here is another one along the same lines:

"Happy feelings or the absence of joy is no evidence that a person is or is not sanctified. True sanctification is a daily work, continuing as long as time shall last. Those who are battling with daily temptations, overcoming their own sinful tendencies, and seeking for holiness of heart and life, make no boastful claims of holiness. They are hungering and thirsting for righteousness. Sin appears to them exceedingly sinful." E.G. White, The Sanctified Life, p.10.

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. Love springs up in the heart. There may be no ecstacy of feeling, but there is an abiding, peaceful trust." 1 S.M.354.

[Woody]

Quote:

True sanctification is a daily work, continuing as long as time shall last.

This is very true. Sanctification is a constant work. Some will be further along than others. But it is completed for all of us ... when we see His face. At the second coming ... Sanctification will be accomplished. What happens in our lives on this earth is just a drop in the bucket compared to what WILL happen when we are changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye.

Some may think I have a pretty good start on Conservatism as evidenced by this thread ... but it is nothing compared to what I shall be when I see His face.

Praise God.

[skyblue888]

Sorry Red, but I am afraid we will miss the mark if we hold the view that the work of sanctification that is to take place before the second coming will only be "a drop in the bucket." The work of sanctification must be completed before Christ returns in the clouds of Heaven. The remnant will reflect Christ fully!

How could the whole earth be lightened with the glory (character) of God during the latter rain and loud cry period if His people were to be satisfied with only a drop in the bucket! No. No. A thousand times no!

"Christ is again to be revealed in His fullness by the power of the Holy Spirit."

"The revelation of His own glory in the form of humanity will bring Heaven so near to man that the beauty adorning the inner temple will be seen in every soul in whom the Saviour dwells. Men will be captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ. The indwelling of the Spirit will be shown by the outflowing (not a mere drop ) of heavenly love. The divine fullness will flow through the consecrated human agents to be given forth to others." Christ's Object Lessons, p.419,420.

Again, humanity is to be flooded with the glory of Divinity, enfolded in the bosom of Infinite love! The invisible glory in the visible human form! "Jesus stood before the children of men with the hoarded love of eternity, and this is the treasure that, through our connection with Him, we are to receive, to reveal, and to impart." Ministry of Healing, p.37.

This can only mean that in the here and now, "If we consent, Christ will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into comformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our own impulses. The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest delight in doing His service. When we know God as it is our privilege to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with God, sin will become hateful to us." The Desire of Ages, p.668.

Again, "When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, He will come to claim them as His own." C.O.L.69

It will be much more than just "a drop in the bucket" of the work of sanctification to perfectly reflect the character of Christ. That work will be complete. The second coming will not complete what is already complete. Christ will then give a perfect body to those who through the grace of God have developped a perfect character. Today we must be transformed by the renewing of our minds but when Jesus returns we will be transformed by the renewing of our bodies.

Therefore, there is no work of sanctification to take place at the coming of Christ! That work must be completed in the soul before that time so that Christ will be revealed in His fullness.

"The church of Christ, every individual disciple of the Master, is Heaven's apppointed channel for the revelation of God to men." Mount of Blessing, p.40.

This is no mean sanctification! So much so that during the loud cry, many from all nations will bow at the feet of the saints and exclaim, "Surely God is you. And there is no other. There is no other God." Isaiah 45:14.

[Gerr]

WOWWWWWWWWW!!! Then the harvest will be ripe for the sickle!!!

Gerry

[skyblue888]

Yeah!!!

p.s. Sorry for the Typo. "Surely God is in you" not "Surely God is you." Isaiah 45:14.

[Woody]

Quote:

The work of sanctification must be completed before Christ returns in the clouds of Heaven.

This is not true in my life. Am I therefore lost and condemned to Hell? I plan to have Christ complete the work in me when I see His face. I will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. The changes that are made on the Earth are the drop in the bucket.

But I would be interested in your sanctification. When is your sanctification completed?

Is your sanctification complete now at this moment? If not ... What if you die in the next ten seconds. Would you be fit for Heaven then. IF so ... what happened during those ten seconds.

Is sanctification completed at death .... before death ... or at some point during your life just before death. Are there people who are living now that are finished with sanctification? IF not then is this magically given seconds before death or at death.

If you do not have sanctification now ... do you have assurance it will be completed and if so WHEN?

As for me and mine ... the work of sanctification will be completed when Jesus comes and makes me fit for Heaven. I will not accomplish this change through Christ while I am alive and struggling on this Earth. It will happen when I see Him as He is ... at His Coming.

I think it is dangerous to think that we will through Christ achieve this sanctification here on this Earth.It will not happen until He comes to take us Home. I haven't met a Sanctified person in my lifetime so ... I assume you feel it magically happens at our death. But I will await your response.

To think that you have sanctification before He comes seems to me like your quote ... "God is you".

[olger]

Quote:

"The work of sanctification must be completed before Christ returns in the clouds of Heaven."

Quote:

Redwood saith: "This is not true in my life. Am I therefore lost and condemned to Hell?"

I would guess that if you continue reading the book that made this statement you will have your answer. Even better, read the Bible each morning and your life will change.

all the best,

olGer

[Woody]

Are you Sanctified Olger?

If not ... when will it be completed ?

At any point during our life

At some specific point before death?

At Death?

After Death (in the grave)

Seconds before death?

Have you met anyone who is sanctified? When did they become sanctified?

I hope someone out there will answer me as to when sanctification is completed?

You say it is your opinion that it is to be done BEFORE Christ comes. But WHEN? And could you give some examples.

Personally I plan to have my sanctification completed in me when I see His face and see Him as He is ... at the second coming. But I am interested in your opinion about the specific time you plan to have sanctification completed in your life and thus be fitted for Heaven. My fitness will happen when I see His Face. However I now have the Justification for my salvation in my back pocket.

[olger]

1) God sanctifies (Exodus 31:13).

2) People trying to sanctify themselves will be destroyed when Jesus returns (Isaaiah 66:17).

3) We can sanctify God in our hearts (1 Peter 3:15).

4) God wants to sanctify us prior to the return of Jesus (1 Thess. 5:23).

5) The power of the Word will sanctify us (John 17:17).

6) It starts today (Cleanse your hands ye sinners, and purify your hearts ye doubleminded).

7) It is a process, not a punctilior event (Hebrews 10:14).

8) We are called to cleanse ourselves by participating in the purging of the Lord (2 Timothy 2:21). How do we do that? By spending time on prayer before God's open Word daily.

You & I were born scumbags. In Jesus we are accepted, beloved, forgiven, and sanctified to walk with Him. What a wonderful Redemption.

Thanks for your questions,

olger

[Woody]

I will still await your response to my questions.

Interesting that you would ignore them. I've stated when my sanctification is completed. When is yours completed?

I appreciate all your ideas about who does it ,what God wants to do , when it starts , that it is a process, how we do it, and that we are called to do it ....

But Olger I will ask you again ...

Are you Sanctified Olger?

If not ... when will it be completed ?

At any point during our life?

At some specific point before death?

At Death?

After Death (in the grave)?

Seconds before death?

Have you met anyone who is sanctified? When did they become sanctified?

I hope someone out there will answer me as to when sanctification is completed?

You say it is your opinion that it is to be done BEFORE Christ comes. But WHEN? And could you give some examples.

[skyblue888]

The purpose of this dicsussion is not to find out who is being sanctified and who is not but to find out what the truth is.

Only God knows who are His. Jesus lived the sanctified life and yet he was accused of doing the works of the devil. He was labeled by His enemies an evil doer. He was crucified between two thieves to signify that he was the worst criminal, Him who knew no sin!

Don't forget, those who live the sanctified life "may be passed by as unworthy of notice." Saying that you have not met anyone on this earth who is living a sanctified life is no argument against the truth.

"The truth is plain, and when it is contrasted with error, its character may be discerned. All the subjects of God's grace may understand what is required of them. By faith we may comform our lives to the standard of righteousness, because we can appropriate to ourselves the righteousness of Christ." Signs of the Times, July 21,1890.

"Genuine faith appropriates the righteousness of Christ, and the sinner is made an overcomer with Christ, for he is made a partaker of the divine nature, and thus divinity and humanity are combined." Review and Herald, July 1, 1890.

"Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success, for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith and Works, p.27.

"God's people cannot please Him unless they are surcharged with the Holy Spirit's efficiency. So pure and true is to be their relationship to one another that by their words, their affections, their attributes, they will show that they are one with Christ." Selected Messages, Vol.1, p.113.

_________________________

"Through the merits of Christ we may find the approval of God." Our Father Cares, p.122.

[Woody]

Some in this thread claim that it is their belief that our sanctification is completed before Jesus comes. So ... my question remains ... WHEN ?

Is there anyone who can answer the following questions ? ....

Are you Sanctified ?

If not ... when will it be completed ?

At any point during our life?

At some specific point before death?

At Death?

After Death (in the grave)?

Seconds before death?

Have you met anyone who is sanctified? When did they become sanctified?

I hope someone out there will answer me as to when sanctification is completed?

You say it is your opinion that it is to be done BEFORE Christ comes. But WHEN? And could you give some examples

[skyblue888]

Red, olger already answered the question as to when we are to be sanctified by quoting 1 Thess.5:23.

"Now, may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

"And the Lord will deliver me from every evil work and preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!" 2 Tim.4:18.

"The Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Grace be with you. Amen!" 2 Tim.4:22.

1 Thess.5:23 has alreday answered your question as to when sanctification takes place and when it is completed. It begins here and it is completed before the return of Jesus in the clouds of Heaven.

Sanctification is achieved, from one stage to another, during the early and latter rain experience.

"As the members of the body of Christ approached the period of their last conflict, they will grow up into Christ, and will partake largely of His Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.1, p.356.

"In the East the former rain falls at the sowing time. It is necessary in order that the seed may germinate. under the influence of the fertilizing showers, the tender shoot springs up. The latter rain, falling near the close of the season, ripens the grain and prepares it for the sickle. The Lord employs these operations of nature to represent the work of the Holy Spirit. As the dew and the rain are given first to cause the seed to germinate, and then to ripen the harvest, so the Holy Spirit is given to carry forward, from one stage to another, the process of spiritual growth. The ripening of the grain represents the [color:#660000]completion of the work of God's grace in the soul. By the power of the Holy Spirit the image of God is to be perfected in the character. We are to be wholly transformed into the likeness of Christ. The latter rain, ripening earth's harvest, represents the spritual grace that prepares the church for the coming of the Son of man. But unless the former rain has fallen, there will be no life; the green blade will not spring up. Unless the early showers have done their work, the latter rain can bring no seed to perfection. There is to be 'first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p.506.

[Woody]

Quote:

it is completed before the return of Jesus in the clouds of Heaven.

Again .... I ask .... When?

You claim it is completed BEFORE the return of Jesus .... So I ask ....

When will it be completed ?

At any point during our life?

At some specific point before death?

At Death?

After Death (in the grave)?

Seconds before death?

Have you met anyone who is sanctified? When did they become sanctified?

I hope someone out there will answer me as to when sanctification is completed?

You say it is your opinion that it is to be done BEFORE Christ comes. But WHEN? And could you give some examples.

If it is not completed in you personally right now and in the next ten seconds ... you die ... are you lost?

Some say that Sanctification is the work of a lifetime ... is this accomplished at the end of your life ... after your life ... or before?

[skyblue888]

"As the members of the body of Christ approach the period of their last conflict, they will grow up into Christ, and will partake largely of His Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.1, p.356

"In the East the former rain falls at the sowing time. It is necessary in order that the seed may germinate. under the influence of the fertilizing showers, the tender shoot springs up. The latter rain, falling near the close of the season, ripens the grain and prepares it for the sickle. The Lord employs these operations of nature to represent the work of the Holy Spirit. As the dew and the rain are given first to cause the seed to germinate, and then to ripen the harvest, so the Holy Spirit is given to carry forward, from one stage to another, the process of spiritual growth. The ripening of the grain represents the completion of the work of God's grace in the soul. By the power of the Holy Spirit the image of God is to be perfected in the character. We are to be wholly transformed into the likeness of Christ. The latter rain, ripening earth's harvest, represents the spritual grace that prepares the church for the coming of the Son of man. But unless the former rain has fallen, there will be no life; the green blade will not spring up. Unless the early showers have done their work, the latter rain can bring no seed to perfection. There is to be 'first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p.506.

After reading these two statements, how could we deny that the work of God's grace in the soul must be completed before Jesus returns?

[Woody]

Sky .... Do you personally believe that Sanctification can be completed during our lifetime? OR ... Is it a work of the lifetime. And if you believe it is the work of or during a lifetime ... then I would ask ....

When?

You claim it is completed BEFORE the return of Jesus .... So I ask ....

When will it be completed ?

At any point during our life?

At some specific point before death?

At Death?

After Death (in the grave)?

Seconds before death?

Have you met anyone who is sanctified? When did they become sanctified?

I hope someone out there will answer me as to when sanctification is completed?

You say it is your opinion that it is to be done BEFORE Christ comes. But WHEN? And could you give some examples.

If it is not completed in you personally right now and in the next ten seconds ... you die ... are you lost?

Some say that Sanctification is the work of a lifetime ... is this accomplished at the end of your life ... after your life ... or before?

OR ... Can we have sanctification completed NOW ... as Olger appears to promote?

Personally I am not currently fit for Heaven. If I die am I lost?

Or ... Does does our fitness for heaven happen after death and before His return? OR .... is it as I believe ... When we see His Face?

[olger]

Dear Red, I will also ask you one question.

When will you die?

olger

[Woody]

Are there any of the question below that you can answer? Perhaps there is someone else that can?

Do you personally believe that Sanctification can be completed during our lifetime? OR ... Is it a work of the lifetime. And if you believe it is the work of or during a lifetime ... then I would ask ....

When?

You claim it is completed BEFORE the return of Jesus .... So I ask ....

When will it be completed ?

At any point during our life?

At some specific point before death?

At Death?

After Death (in the grave)?

Seconds before death?

Have you met anyone who is sanctified? When did they become sanctified?

I hope someone out there will answer me as to when sanctification is completed?

You say it is your opinion that it is to be done BEFORE Christ comes. But WHEN? And could you give some examples.

If it is not completed in you personally right now and in the next ten seconds ... you die ... are you lost?

Some say that Sanctification is the work of a lifetime ... is this accomplished at the end of your life ... after your life ... or before?

OR ... Can we have sanctification completed NOW ... ?

Personally I am not currently fit for Heaven. If I die am I lost?

Or ... Does does our fitness for heaven happen after death and before His return? OR .... is it as I believe ... When we see His Face?

[olger]

When will you die?

olger

[Woody]

I die daily Olger. But Sanctification is not completed daily. It is a process that is not completed in me yet. And if I die in the next second ... it will still not be complete.

When is it completed?

[olger]

Sanctification like salvation is conditional upon me living my life in the faith of Jesus Christ (Galatians 2:20). "He that endures to the end shall be saved" and I cannot yet say whether you will endure to the end. If you don't, well...

Why are you so ardent to nail down a punctilior time for sanctification? Why not trust the Lord to do what He says He will do?

I do understand however, that there is a difference in a person living their life believing that character development is optional, and a person who daily takes up their cross and denies self.

I believe that if you keep reading your Bible each morning and asking God for answers, He will supply them, BUT most of all He will give peace. Peace. Peace.

Go and do as He hath done,

olger

[Woody]

Quote:

Why are you so ardent to nail down a punctilior time for sanctification? Why not trust the Lord to do what He says He will do?

I do Olger. And He says He will do it when I see His face ... in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. I will change from corrupt to perfection and fit for heaven. This is His promise to those who accept Him as their Saviour.

Since you are looking for it to happen BEFORE He comes ... I wanted to explore WHEN you see it happening. But apparently you are not able to figure it out.

No worry. What is important is that it does not happen in this lifetime. It is a work of a lifetime. Somewhere at the end ... it will happen and we can be trusted in Heaven.

Currently ... I am not trustworthy enough to be in Heaven ... So ... something more needs to happen.

Praise the Lord ... "I will be your representative in Heaven. The Father beholds not your faulty character, but He sees yours clothed in My perfection" DA 357

And ....

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

"Like Him. This points to the fulfillment of GOd's plan for fallen man -- restoration to the divine image...It is God's design to restore that similitude by giving man victory over sin and over every temptation. The restoration will be completed AT THE SECOND COMING." 7 BC 649