Calling sin by its right name...

[LifeHiscost]

As near as I can tell, the phenomenon of passive men began in the early 60's. It was fortified in 1971 with the Archie Bunker syndrome, the passive, easy chair male who was a buffoon in most of life's situations.

In an attempt to swim against the tide, Focus on the Family created the person of Mr. Whitaker to help remind our sick culture what true manhood looks like. Hollywood has done an admirable job of tearing down the house in this area alone.

In contemporary society, Laura Schlessinger and many others have raised the cry as well. It must begin with us men. We cannot blame society, culture, women, parents, or politics any longer.

oG

Another side to this issue might be that those the most vocal about the need for reform don't often accept the position, or at least are often silent about the fact that close scrutiny of theirselves, places them in no more enviable position than the ones they feel need to be reformed.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

James 2:10 KJV

"The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican....

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I say unto you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be humbled; but he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 18:11,13,14 KJV

Just one man's point of view

Regards!!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Those here who claim that they have completely stopped sinning might want to check their sugar and milk consumption, cooking skills and sleeping habits.

And don't forget the sin of forgetfulness, but be sure not to sin off in the other direction by committing the sin of excessive cogitation, And if anyone is getting sick and tired of all this you need to remember that she also said being sick was a sin and I assume being tired would be a sign of not enough sleep which is a sin and my favorite, which only a blind man can be found faultless, the sin of "seeing"....

Guilty of all of the above, I guess... :duno (to add to your conclusion from my perspective. : LHC)

Tom

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

...I can keep on doing something that I know to be wrong since "we are assured of LIFE in Him" anyway?

Why, Why, do people keep trying to put these words into others mouths? Gerry, you are much to intelligent and thoughtful to fall into the trap of useing those words just to rebut someone. Redwood insinuates in no way that sentiment.

: (Ditto. : LHC)

[LifeHiscost]

Err, and 'method to her madness' is a well known figure of speech suggesting that something that others see as crazy is actually sane, not any sort of allegation of madness.

Knowing the conclusions that can sometimes be drawn, I wonder if this is what was meant.

From Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary:

disordered in mind: insane

completely unrestrained by reason and judgement: senseless

incapable of being explained or accounted for: illogical

carried away by intense anger: furious

keenly displeased : angry

Doesn't really sound much different than Jesus' experience.

"It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" Matthew 10:25 KJV

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV

Regards!!

[Planey]

It is a sin to be sick........

Does that mean the more serious the sickness, the more serious the sin?

So if the sickness is terminal, was that person guilty of the unforgivable sin?

My wife was diagnosed with an hormonal breast cancer which after a lumpectomy, chemo and radiation treatment appeared to go into remission. Then three years later she was diagnosed with another cancer (different to the first one - the second one was post-menopausal and non-hormonal) in the other breast - followed by same old same old. She is currently still in remission but is checked regularly.

I will enquire from her what grievous and fatal (almost) sins she has been guilty of and keeping from me...

On the other hand I know I am a recidivist sinner and totally deserve my diabetes and kidney failure. I give thanks for my punishment very time I stick those thick sharp needles in my arm and watch my lifeblood flow around the tubes and through the artificial kidney. I feel like Esau who God said He "hateth"

I am so glad that you people have reached a much closer level of sinlessness so that you no longer have to put up with so many of those nasty coughs and colds. The Lord is so good to you righteous saints.

Graeme

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Just a question to throw into the mix:

If illness and feebleness is the result of sin, and therefore a precursor to death, did Ellen White die because she sinned? ...... or did she die simply because of the human condition?

[Gerr]

Just a question to throw into the mix:

If illness and feebleness is the result of sin, and therefore a precursor to death, did Ellen White die because she sinned? ...... or did she die simply because of the human condition?

There never would have been any feebleness or sickness if Adam & Eve had not sinned. In Adam we all die, be it by accident, illness, or whatever. We hasten or delay that inevitable death by OUR lifestyle. The health message was given by our gracious God to delay the inevitable. Are we not missing the mark (sin) when we choose a lifestyle that shortens our lives? As to whether this is a sin "that is unto death" or not, I leave that in the hands of God who alone can see our hearts.

Gerry

[Woody]

I pretend that as a non-SDA, I happen on to this forum. I soon learn that SDA's have two leaders, their claim, Bible and EGW. They call The Bible the 'Greater' light and EGW the 'Lesser' light. They also claim that they only follow the Bible. However, they also believe that EGW's writings agree with the Bible so her words are important also to their belief system. In their attempt to define 'right living', it seems that EGW is their leader. Example, all of the 'sins' they(sda) define can't be found in the Bible so they resort to the writings of EGW for guidance. Confusion!! Who do they rely on the most? Who do they really believe is their leader? To their credit, they will find texts in the Bible about clean and healthy living. But they look to EGW for 'sin' list. They seem to have some real problems with finding sin and defineing what exactly sin is. The forum seems to erupt with many topics on this matter and can get quite heated. Still, I am confused, who is their leader? Reminds me of the Jewish religious leaders and their attempts to define all sinful activity and behaviour. They believed right living would get them to heavan. They were not happy when Christ told them to follow and accept Him/God in order to be saved. The people were much confused as to whom their leader was...their fellow humans or this Christ/God. My confusion remains, just who do SDA's follow, God, as they claim, EGW, as they claim not too, but follow religiosly, a combintion of the two or .....? Maybe they aren't sure either, so will continue to watch and wonder...it is very entertaining though!

As a lifetime Adventist and a former Pastor in the church and a current SDA Pastor's spouse .... I can clearly state that this is the very best description of the Seventh day Adventist church that I have ever read.

CoAspen .... all the above is true. We are all that you have said. Thank you for your observation and description. I hope that we can learn from it.

[olger]

It is a sin to be sick........

Graeme

I believe that Jesus set this question straight when he was asked "Lord who did sin, this man or his parents?"

Now, it is true that our lives will often experience consequences of our choices, including deteriorating health.

oG

[Neil D]

Ger-

So, when a baby is born with Osteogenesis, the baby sinned while in utero?

I don't think so.....

[olger]

I don't think so either.

OG

[Amelia]

Originally Posted By: Amelia

Soooooo we are all sinning everytime we get a cold?

My wife and I have found a couple of very simple habits that have removed us from 99% of those colds, Amelia, if you would be interested. It's obvious that trust in God is the paramount but there are a couple of things very simple that don't cost much time or effort beyond a modicum of eating healthy. I would PM it for there seems to be quite a bit of adverse reaction whenever the possibility lies in someone's lifestyle that hasn't been accepted by the majority of Adventist believers.

Blessings!!

Why thank you LHC. But praise to our Father, I have not had cold in years. And I really mean PRAISE HIM because I haven't a clue as to anything I have done to thwart that nasty virus other than hand washing and sleeping in a cold room.

[Bravus]

Neil - you may want to re-read that story of Jesus and the crippled man to understand what olger was saying.

[Woody]

In order for this topic to be understood we need to know what sin is ....

Does this shed any light or just confusion?

Quote:

"Avoid Unnecessary Barriers.--We should not, upon entering a place, build up unnecessary barriers between us and other denominations, especially the Catholics, so that they think we are their avowed enemies. We should not create a prejudice in their minds unnecessarily, by making a raid upon them. There are many among the Catholics who live up to the light they have far better than many who claim to believe present truth, and God will just as surely test and prove them as He has tested and proved us.-- Manuscript 14, 1887. Ev 144 "

My question I guess is .... Are we accepted when we live up to the light we have? OR are we held responsible for sins that we don't know are sins?

[olger]

Thanks Bravus. I wondered about that..

oG

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Planey

It is a sin to be sick........

Graeme

I believe that Jesus set this question straight when he was asked "Lord who did sin, this man or his parents?"

Now, it is true that our lives will often experience consequences of our choices, including deteriorating health.

oG

Ok, perhaps I should clarify why I asked the question that I did...

Ger quoted Graham with "it is a sin to be sick" and, I thought, expanded the thought with a quote from John 9. The question of who is at fault when ever we get sick was either it was the parents fault [aka thier choices] or it was a result of our choice.

I was under the impression that Ger was implying that it was OUR choice that caused us to get sick. I brought up Ostiogenesis as it is purely a genetic problem, that results in poor bone structure. [i took care of a child like this once...It was heart breaking. ] This child was sick purely due to other factors that fell outside of Ger's nicely formulated question....It was neither the parents fault nor the childs fault. Therefore, it was not the result of the parents [unless you consider sex within the confines of marriage a sin] nor necessiarily our choice that causes us to be sick.

Sometimes, sickness just happens....

[Woody]

Good Point Neil. I appreciate your compassion.

[lazarus]

Job's friends were right after all!

[Neil D]

Job's friends were right after all!

Ok, you lost me on this one, Laz...

Please expand this thought a bit, would you?

[David Koot]

Job's friends were right after all!

NO!!!! Sometimes illness just happens. Many godly people have been laid low by it. As well as the rest of us. Here I am, going around doing God's work. Sometimes, in the process, I get sick. True, there are times when I bring it on myself--too many sweets, not wearing a jacket, overtired (a bad combination.) Other times, it just happens--I think?!

Dave

[lazarus]

My point is the opposite of what I said. Clearly, the bible reveals in Job's situation his sickness was NOT becasue of his sin. In fact Job suffered because of his righteousness. He ws sick because he was righteous!

Observing the back and forth about this topic shows me how we misuse EGW. "Its a sin to be sick" is clearly an example of EGW falability. She obviously didn't mean exactly what she said. That would be contrary to scripture. The story of Job is a simple example of that. I get the idea of what she meant. Folks have already expressed it clearly.

Sometimes I use sarcasm to make a point. I guess its not very effective sometimes. Sorry Neil and David.

[David Koot]

My point is the opposite of what I said. Clearly, the bible reveals in Job's situation that it was NOT because of his sin that he suffered . . . Sometimes I use sarcasm to make a point.

Oh, I recognized that. I was intending to agree with the point you were making. As for EGW, I don't believe she made a mistake. I do, however, need to take a look at whatever the source of her statement is. Few things more confusing than plucking a sentence or two out of a whole article, and trying to build a case on it! Let me see . . . what was that SOP ref again?

Dave

[David Koot]

Okay, I just went back and reread what EGW wrote. Wow! Talk about the risk of taking something out of context! Now I understand what she was referring to. No, I don't see evidence of her making a mistake here, or of saying something that contradicts Scripture. I do see her referring to cause and effect, and the importance of living in harmony with the laws of nature. That would strike a very responsive chord with people in this community, the North Bay Area. But, then again, this is a very progressive community!

[lazarus]

Many have inquired of me, "What course shall I take to best preserve my health?" My answer is, Cease to transgress the laws of your being; cease to gratify a depraved appetite; eat simple food; dress healthfully, which will require modest simplicity; work healthfully; and you will not be sick. {HR, August 1, 1866 par. 1}

It is a sin to be sick; for all sickness is the result of transgression. Many are suffering in consequence of the transgression of their parents. They cannot be censured for their parents' sin; but it is nevertheless their duty to ascertain wherein their parents violated the laws of their being, which has entailed upon their offspring so miserable an inheritance; and wherein their parents' habits were wrong, they should change their course, and place themselves by correct habits in a better relation to health. {HR, August 1, 1866 par. 2}

When I use the word fallibility I did not mean that she was wrong. I meant that because she is a human being the way she chooses to express herself is not always the most effective in communicating an idea. I could easily misunderstand and misapply what she said even if I read it in context.

The same thing happens with scripture. God uses human beings to communicate truth and sometimes the truth is not always crystal clear to us. That is evident by the length of this thread.

[David Koot]

Good points, Laz.