Perfect Obedience

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Again, you are to love her as you love yourself and as Christ loved the church. [/quote']

And loving her as I love MYSELF, that would not be sin?

Gerry

Gerry...have you ever heard of "self-renouncing" love? How can you renounce self if you love yourself?

[Gerr]

Quote:

Sooooooo, once I am saved, I am always saved, forever?

Yes. That is a pretty good summation. You are saved as long as you decide to be saved. Once you decide differently ... then you are lost. But keep in mind ... you are saved by the fact that Christ did and died. You are not saved by your works. So, when you sin ... you are not snatched out of the Grace of God. As a Christian you will repent and the life of Jesus is placed to your account. You are then viewed as without sin.

Isn't this great news? Praise God for His mercy towards us sinners.

I never thought I'd see the day when someone who claims to be SDA would embrace a Baptist heresy!

Gerry

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Gerry...have you ever heard of "self-renouncing" love? How can you renounce self if you love yourself?

Let's see, "renounce" per Webster means: 1. to give up, refuse, or resign usually by formal declaration 2. to refuse to follow, obey, or recognize any further: REPUDIATE

Since a husband and wife are suppose to be one, to love one's wife with "self-renouncing love", I would repudiate her, refuse anything she might ask no matter how reasonable? Besides, I thought it was your view that ALL species of self-love, which would also include "self-renouncing love", is sinful?

Gerry

[Robert]

Since a husband and wife are suppose to be one, to love one's wife with "self-renouncing love", I would repudiate her, refuse anything she might ask no matter how reasonable? Gerry

Your quarrel is with Ellen:

"Our little world is the lesson book of the universe. God's wonderful purpose of grace, the mystery of redeeming love, is the theme into which angels desire to look, and it will be their study throughout endless ages. Both the redeemed and the unfallen beings will find in the cross of Christ their science and their song. It will be seen that the glory shining in the face of Jesus is the glory of self-sacrificing love. In the light from Calvary it will be seen that the law of self-renouncing love is the law of life for earth and heaven; that the love which "seeketh not her own" has its source in the heart of God. . . ."[AG 45]

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

Sooooooo, once I am saved, I am always saved, forever?

Yes. That is a pretty good summation. You are saved as long as you decide to be saved. Once you decide differently ... then you are lost. But keep in mind ... you are saved by the fact that Christ did and died. You are not saved by your works. So, when you sin ... you are not snatched out of the Grace of God. As a Christian you will repent and the life of Jesus is placed to your account. You are then viewed as without sin.

Isn't this great news? Praise God for His mercy towards us sinners.

I never thought I'd see the day when someone who claims to be SDA would embrace a Baptist heresy!

Gerry

You need to get out more Gerry.

I would dare to say that my view is just as representitive of SDAs than yours. Praise God ... I see the church moving far more in my direction than in yours.

[Robert]

And loving her as I love MYSELF, that would not be sin?

Of yourself you are a mess....You are flesh controlled...you are egocentric - you are a fallen child of Adam. That's why Paul, speaking of our fallen humanity, states: "For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh [i.e., my humanity]. I can will what is right, but I cannot do it." [Roman 7:18] And because of this Jesus says, "Without Me you can do NOTHING!"

So in yourself you are incapable of loving your wife. Why? Self-love. How can you love others when you are in love with yourself. Self-love = selfishness, period!

Now, let's look at your famous quote again. If we look at the context it will help clear things up a bit:

"In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself [i.e., his body]. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church...."

“The Prince of heaven [Jesus] came to this world to live in human nature a perfect life, a life that would be an example for all human beings."

Did Jesus eat, drink and sleep? Yes. That's caring for your body because, even though fallen & dying, if you don't take care of your body there will be problems. Let's read on:

"He [Jesus] lived a life free from self-seeking, [how?] wholly given to the service of others.”

So to "love" your body is to feed it and care for it. Hence, "if we have food & clothing" with this be content. Outside this we have self-seeking and sin.

Robert

[Robert]

The following is written by Jack and it's right on the money:

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

How many commandments? Two. The reason I’m emphasizing two is that there are some Christian psychologists who have taken this passage and made it into three commandments. They say 1. Love God. 2. To love your neighbour you must first love yourself. 3. Love your neighbour like yourself. Jesus did not say, “Upon these three commandments.” This idea of loving self is called “narcissism.” It comes from a young man from Greek mythology called Narcissus. He had low self-esteem and one day he was walking downcast along the path and he came across a pond. In those days they had no mirrors. He looked down and for the first time he saw himself and he realized that he was quite a handsome fellow. He fell in love with himself.

So these Christian psychologists say that we must first love ourselves before we can love our neighbours. No, Jesus did not say “You must love yourself in order that you may love your neighbours.” He said, “You must love your neighbour in the same way that you love yourself.”

Going back to our study on “agape” and “eros.” God placed into the heart of Adam agape love because Adam was created in God’s own image. “God is Agape” (1 John 4:8,16). That means that he had a love that went towards others and not towards himself because agape does not have self in it. 1 Cor. 13:5: “Agape seeketh not her own.” There is no self in agape. So this is Adam before his fall.

Now what happened when Adam sinned? If you read Steps to Christ, we are told that love disappeared and selfishness took its place. That is a correct description. Adam’s agape love became bent toward self. Therefore it became eros. That’s what happened at the fall. Human love was the agape bent toward self. In the Hebrew language this word of bending is called iniquity. The Hebrew word for iniquity means to be bent.

All we like sheep have gone astray. We have all bent to our own way.

Every human being is born with self-love. We don’t have to try to love ourselves. The day you do not love yourself you are a sick person. You would need to go to the hospital.

Even the person who commits suicide loves himself or herself. They can’t face the issues of life. They don’t care about how much it hurts their loved ones. They want to get rid of their problem and the only way is suicide. So self-love is spontaneous. Eros is a U-turn agape. How many of you have ever prayed, “Dear Jesus, please help me to love myself.” Have you ever prayed that? No.

Tell me, when you have been travelling on the highway and you broke the speed limit, and don’t tell me you haven’t. I haven’t had any ticket as yet but my last car was a diesel and it couldn’t break the speed limit, but now I have a Subaru and I’m always in danger of doing that. But let’s say you break the speed limit and a policeman stops you. You plead with him. You say, “Officer, I was in a hurry. I have an appointment.” Are you sorry because you love the policeman? Are you sorry because you love the law of the country or are you sorry because you love your pocket? Why are you pleading for mercy?

You love yourself also when you are bad. Am I correct? That is why when you preach the gospel to the world you have to show them. You have to come to them at the level they are. As the book Evangelism says, “You have to show them that there is a heaven to win and a hell to lose.” What are you appealing to? Their egocentric love. That’s all they have. When the young man came to Jesus and said, “What good thing must I do to be saved?” he had missed the gospel.

Jesus said, “Keep the commandments.”

He said, “I have been keeping it since I was in Primary Sabbath School.”

Jesus said, “Alright, let me test you. If you love your neighbour as yourself, then give your wealth to your neighbour and follow me and I will give you my wealth.”

Did he do it? No. Why? Because he loved himself. If you read further in the passage, you will come to Peter. He was a wonderful fellow. He spoke before he thought and he said, “Jesus, we have given up everything for you. What is our reward?” The great Peter! Jesus knew that he still had not been fully converted.

Jesus said, “Peter you have not given up anything without receiving one hundred fold from me.” He did not rebuke Peter; He met him on his level. But later on Peter understood the gospel and he was now ready to die for Christ. That was afterwards.

Agape is the ingredient by which the law is kept. Without agape you cannot keep the law. Now here’s the problem. Men do not have agape, they have only eros, which is self-love. Self-love only knows how to sin.

By the way, if I keep the Sabbath because I want to go to heaven, am I keeping the law? Or am I keeping sin? While sin is the transgression of the law and love is the fulfilment of the law, please, love can also be the fulfilment of sin. Self-love is the fulfilment of sin. Agape is the fulfilment of the law.

Our problem is that we do not have agape. We have only self-love. That is why the Bible teaches that by the works of the law no flesh can be justified because we don’t have the ingredient for justification. Have you ever tried cooking spaghetti when you have no water? You won’t get spaghetti, at least you won’t get the kind that I like. So remember that it is impossible for us to keep the law without the ingredient of agape.

We human beings do not have agape. Can we generate it by trying? Agape is a gift from God to the believer. It is the supreme gift. Sinful man cannot generate this agape love and, therefore, in and of himself he cannot fulfill the law of God. A good example is Rom.7:22-24. Paul, in talking of the corporate man says, “I delight in the law. I want to keep the law but how to keep it I find not. I cannot do it. Oh, wretched man that I am!” Why? Because we do not have the ingredients.

God’s agape love is the supreme gift of the Holy Spirit to the believer. 1 Cor. 12 and 13 is in the context of spiritual gifts. Please turn to 1 Cor. 13 and begin with the last verse of Chapter twelve to get the context of the thirteenth chapter. Paul has been talking in chapter twelve about spiritual gifts. In verse thirty-one he says, “But covet earnestly the best gifts and yet show I unto you a more excellent way. Here I will show you the supreme gift of the Holy Spirit.” And what is it? The gift of agape.

Here is a believer. God gives him agape. This is what the New Covenant is. “I will write the law into his heart,” simply means “I will put my love into his heart.” Now here comes the problem. If God gives me agape and I use this agape to love Him back, to return it back to Him, you have a problem. You make God Eros. That’s the problem. Because you can’t generate agape. It is a gift of God. Has He given you this gift so that you may love Him back? The answer is “No.” So what do you do with the problem?

Well, I want to show you something that you may not have noticed. The New Testament speaks very little about the first four commandments. Almost nothing. All it talks about is the last six. For example let me turn to Gal.5:14:

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

There is no mention of God here. Or look at Romans thirteen where Paul talks about Christian ethics and you will find verses eight to ten discuss Christian living. We should not owe any man any money and we should love one another. He quotes not the first four commandments but the last six. Beginning with verse nine, ”For this thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not kill etc.” In verse ten, “Love worketh no evil to his neighbour, therefore, love is the fulfilment of the law.”

So what do we do with the first four commandments, since we don’t have agape? If we look at the New Testament very carefully the first four commandments are kept in the context of faith. In other words, God gives us the gospel and we in return believe in God. Faith is the fulfilment of the first four commandments. In other words, if I accept the gospel I will have no other gods before [God the Creator]. If I accept God as my Saviour and Creator I will not have any images.

[Robert]

Everything written here I am in complete agreement with. Let me start with:

Quote:

there are some Christian psychologists who have taken this passage and made it into three commandments. They say 1. Love God. 2. To love your neighbour you must first love yourself. 3. Love your neighbour like yourself. Jesus did not say, “Upon these three commandments.”

If you think about it Jack is absolutely right: 1 Love God (shown in faith) 2 Love your neighbor.

It doesn't say 1 Love God 2 love self and 3 love your neighbor. That's 3, and Jesus says, "On these 2 commandments..." Got that?

Quote:

Jesus did not say “You must love yourself in order that you may love your neighbours.” He said, “You must love your neighbour in the same way that you love yourself.”

In other words take that natural love of self that you've had since birth and instead of living for yourself take that self-love and instead of projecting it towards yourself project it to your neighbors.

Quote:

[Adam] had a love that went towards others and not towards himself because agape does not have self in it. 1 Cor. 13:5: “Agape seeketh not her own.” There is no self in agape. So this is Adam before his fall.

Since there's no self in agape then self-love and self-seeking are sin.

Quote:

Now what happened when Adam sinned? If you read Steps to Christ, we are told that love disappeared and selfishness took its place. That is a correct description. Adam’s agape love became bent toward self. Therefore it became eros. That’s what happened at the fall. Human love was the agape bent toward self. In the Hebrew language this word of bending is called iniquity. The Hebrew word for iniquity means to be bent.

That's why David could say, "Surely I was sinful at birth,

sinful from the time my mother conceived me."

Quote:

Every human being is born with self-love. We don’t have to try to love ourselves.

This is before conversion....Therefore self-love has to be sin! IF not we are born righteous....But David says that his humanity was born sinful. Why? Did he murder or steal as an infant? No, but he was born self-centered. Even though babies are helpless, they are totally selfish. That's just the way it is....And we think it's funny....

Quote:

Tell me, when you have been travelling on the highway and you broke the speed limit, and don’t tell me you haven’t. I haven’t had any ticket as yet but my last car was a diesel and it couldn’t break the speed limit, but now I have a Subaru and I’m always in danger of doing that. But let’s say you break the speed limit and a policeman stops you. You plead with him. You say, “Officer, I was in a hurry. I have an appointment.” Are you sorry because you love the policeman? Are you sorry because you love the law of the country or are you sorry because you love your pocket? Why are you pleading for mercy?

In other words what's your motive? Are you sorry because you love the police officer or because you love your money, which is synonymous with self-seeking & your love of self?

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You love yourself also when you are bad. Am I correct?

You know this is true...

Quote:

You have to come to them at the level they are. As the book Evangelism says, “You have to show them that there is a heaven to win and a hell to lose.” What are you appealing to? Their egocentric love. That’s all they have.

In other words the unconverted will listen only if they have something to gain ...so you must appeal to their self-love to get their attention!

Quote:

Agape is the ingredient by which the law is kept. Without agape you cannot keep the law. Now here’s the problem. Men do not have agape, they have only eros, which is self-love. Self-love only knows how to sin.

So if you are keeping the law without agape you are actually sinning. The Hebrew word for this is iniquity or self-righteousness - the flesh trying to look good.

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Self-love is the fulfilment of sin. Agape is the fulfilment of the law.

Bingo!

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So remember that it is impossible for us to keep the law without the ingredient of agape.

"Love is the fulfillment of the law"! I.E., without agape the law can't be kept!

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Here is a believer. God gives him agape. This is what the New Covenant is. “I will write the law into his heart,” simply means “I will put my love into his heart.”

This is very, very important! God doesn’t write in your heart/mind “You shall not murder, you shall not do this or that – no – He places “agape” into your heart so that you will not murder, etc, for the right motive. Agape is how you keep the law….

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If God gives me agape and I use this agape to love Him back, to return it back to Him, you have a problem. You make God Eros.

I.E., you make God sinful…egocentric.

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The New Testament speaks very little about the first four commandments. Almost nothing….

That’s because agape doesn’t flow down to us from God and back to Him. Agape goes horizontally – not vertically.

Quote:

So what do we do with the first four commandments, since we don’t have agape? If we look at the New Testament very carefully the first four commandments are kept in the context of faith. In other words, God gives us the gospel and we in return believe in God. Faith is the fulfilment of the first four commandments.

In other words the fulfillment of the law is agape in the heart/mind. This will be seen vertically towards our neighbors. Faith fulfills the first four and is not written in the heart because faith is not agape.

In other words when I have faith in Christ and have accepted Him others begin to see a change in my life. I become less self-centered – less self-seeking.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

That would be our choice against Christ.

I agree with you, but the thing is that it's possible for us to think we're in a saved condition when we are really not. Like Rob said earlier, we can be deceived by the flesh. Thank God, though, that He has given us in His Word tests or symptoms by which we can make a self-diagnosis.

I like what you have said here John. I would just add that the "self-diagnosis" is to keep us on the right track ... but not to indicate that we are a yo-yo and have been placed outside of God's Grace based on our self-diagnostic testing.

I guess one might call it a barometer to indicate troubled storms ahead.

[Robert]

I guess one might call it a barometer to indicate troubled storms ahead.

The barometer should read:

Are we justifying and refusing to acknowledge known sin in our lives?

Yes - watch out or your flesh can pull you out of Christ.

No - don't confuse struggles and failure with willfully living, practicing, willful sin. They are not the same.

For example I have some besetting sins. Sometimes I give in to my nature willfully. I give into these desires because the mind becomes unsettled and cloudy. The nature is powerful, that's why we can't fight "the law of sin" with our will power.

The thing is do I continue to willfully practice those willful known sins? Hope not because Paul says, "I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Rob

[Woody]

All things are possible with God. If we confess our sins ... He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[olger]

I agree that we need to pray that he will take away that desire to sin and replace it with good. But once we do that .... we may still practice the same sin ... in other words ... we may sin despite our best intentions. This does not put us outside of the Grace of God.

I have a simple question. Why do "we need to pray that He will take away that desire" if we are saved in our sins?

Thanks,

olger

[Woody]

Not from threats or of fear ... but from LOVE.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I guess one might call it a barometer to indicate troubled storms ahead.

The barometer should read:

Are we justifying and refusing to acknowledge known sin in our lives?

Yes - watch out or your flesh can pull you out of Christ.

No - don't confuse struggles and failure with willfully living, practicing, willful sin. They are not the same.

For example I have some besetting sins. Sometimes I give in to my nature willfully. I give into these desires because the mind becomes unsettled and cloudy. The nature is powerful, that's why we can't fight "the law of sin" with our will power.

The thing is do I continue to willfully practice those willful known sins? Hope not because Paul says, "I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Rob

[olger]

Not from threats or of fear ... but from LOVE.

well..of course. That is our premise as Adventists.

It's one of the things that drew me to the Advent Movement. Were you raised in the church or are you a convert like me?

Venden (since he was brought up) says that Hebrews 4 is talking about sanctification, and the "rest" that some will enter is ceasing from our works, sin, and that will result in glory to God - the dominant theme of the Great Controversy.

What I keep hearing from you (correct me if I'm am mistaken) is that your personal salvation is more important than bringing glory to God (the proper goal of good works).

Is the Great Controversy still alive and well among us? Do we believe the bright promises of scripture? or shall we abandon the dream?

olger

[Woody]

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Did the R&R corporation break up? Curious..

Notta Chance. Just a little spat.

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Isn't that why God offers us a new nature at conversion?

The key word is "offers" ... but we in our sinful state ... we do not accept the offer as we should. That is what sanctification is all about. We grow in our ability to "let go" and "let God". During that time of sanctification ... we will slowly accept the offer ... more and more.

Praise God.

[olger]

The key word is "offers" ...

According to C.S. Lewis, failure to accept that new nature will result in us being locked in the coffin of our own selfishness. And we'll be among those who hear these words outside the New Jerusalem "Look ye lost on the rewards of redemption."

"In the pathway of all who seek the crown, is the cross. If we would become partakers with Christ of his glory, we must be willing to share with him in his sufferings. If we would reflect his glorious image, we must be submissive to the divine molding; we must follow in the footsteps of the Man of Calvary. God has claims upon every one of us. He created us, he redeemed us with an infinite sacrifice. He has promised the overcomer the great rewards of eternity. Why do we cling to anything that is offensive to him? Why not separate from every sin, and perfect holiness before him? The only reward for sin is unutterable woe and death; but the righteous shall be at his right hand in fullness of joy, in his presence, where are pleasures forevermore.

[Woody]

I am a firm believer in the Biblical concept of sanctification.

[olger]

handshake

oG

[Woody]

Great. It is important to note that we serve God from a saved position. We do not serve God to become saved. We serve Him out of LOVE and thankfulness for what He has done.

[LifeHiscost]

I have a simple question. Why do "we need to pray that He will take away that desire" if we are saved in our sins?

Thanks,

olger

We are not saved in our sins. We are saved in His righteousness. We have no righteousness of our own.

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." Rev 3:14-20 KJV

If one has nothing to repent of, there is no need of a Saviour. If there is no need of a Saviour, there is no blood shed for one's sins. If there is no cleansing blood, we remain in our sins.

"So also [is] the rising again of the dead: it is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption;

it is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; " 1 Cor 15:42,43

Some have proposed this resurrection only refers to the corruptible body and not to the corruptible mind (not necessarily the corrupt mind). However I propose the mind is corruptible until we receive our change at the coming of Jesus.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8 KJV

Regards!

[Woody]

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Some have proposed this resurrection only refers to the corruptible body and not to the corruptible mind (not necessarily the corrupt mind). However I propose the mind is corruptible until we receive our change at the coming of Jesus.

Very Good Point. I am not aware of any Christian who was not in the need for a mind transplant at the time they died. And I KNOW that all who are living need a mind transplant. I long for the day when we SEE HIS FACE at the second coming. We will then be changed and become fit for heaven.

Then our corruptible and deceitful minds will be totally changed and be perfectly in tune with Christ.

Praise God that He will change us ... Is this not GOOD NEWS ??

[LifeHiscost]

Praise God that He will change us ... Is this not GOOD NEWS ??

Hallelujah!!

"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus." Philippians 1:6 NASB

Blessing!

[John317]

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No one has to sin,

depends on how you define sin, probably

? limit it to 'trangression of the law' or include the desires of the heart as Jesus suggested. ?

! maybe the easiest way to sin is by the omission of doing good !

to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not to him it is sin

But what is the "good" that we are to do? How are we to know? Is it completely subjective?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Shane

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I fear that some people take Romans 7 as the mantra of their whole christian experience

It was written by Paul!

"our beloved brother Paul... in all his epistles... in which are some things hard to be understood" (2 Ptr 3:15,16)

Those who can't understand Paul end up legalists!

Robert, do you believe that the following is a legalistic view of Paul's writings? I'd be interested in your personal critique and reaction, not Jack's. I find it a solid piece of exposition of Paul's theology on the New Covenant law:

* 2 Corinthians 3:3, 7, 8: You show that you are a letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. . . the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. . . . Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

Since Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:3ff refers to the Ten Commandment as the law “written on stones” as a “ministry of death”, and in another text he shows that the law became “weakened by the sinful nature” (Rom. 8:3), some imagine that he is discarding the Decalogue, to replace it for another set of rules for the Christian community.

But what Paul is really doing is contrasting the ministry of the old covenant with the new covenant. As he applies the qualification of “ministry of death” by mentioning the “tables of stones”, some Bible interpreters mistake his language to mean that the contents of these tables of stones represented a “ministry of death”. Then, we have something very strange—God, who presented Himself to Israel as “longsuffering, merciful, good, forgiving” actually prepared a terrible trap to that people at Sinai: He offered them there a legal code that would result inescapably in death! He reserved the “law of love and grace” only to the New Testament folks! Is that the God Who is no respecter of people?

Going back to the scenery of where God’s law was solemnly proclaimed to the people we can read in Exodus 19:10ff God’s order that Israel purified and even abstained from sexual activity (vs. 15) for an integral dedication to Him in preparation to the utterance of the law. Limits were set around the mount so that not even animals should roam across the area. Finally the Ten Commandments were audibly pronounced before being recorded on the tables of stones. Now, all this preparation, expectation and remarkable solemnity for the deliverance of a . . . “law of death”! That’s incredible! Any one would feel cheated!

Notwithstanding, that is the bottom line of the exegesis that can be read in the writings of certain interpreters of a semi-antinomian orientation, who are unable to realize that “the law of the Lord is perfect and restores the soul” (Psalm 19:7). Truly, David has in mind the entire law (Torah), but that means the inclusion, not the exclusion, of the Decalogue.

Anyway, something went wrong in that agreement, turning its ministry into a death-producing factor. Why? Where was the problem? Was the law of such a tenor—generator of death? Then it couldn’t be “perfect”.

What some people can’t understand is that the problem was not with the law, but with the people who, even before knowing fully what would be proclaimed, precipitously declared regarding the Sinai proclamation: “we will do everything the Lord had said” (Exo. 19:8). But that was a stiff-necked people, so often condemned for their stumbling. Thus, it’s easier to understand: the problem was not in the law, but in the people. That is made very clear in the promise of the New Covenant at Ezekiel’s time—“I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh” (Eze. 36:26).

The ones who had the wrong heart were the people, then the necessity of this people to change their attitude allowing God to perform a serious change—their stony heart removed and replaced by one of flesh.

And the important detail is that as Paul utilizes the “tables of stone/tables of flesh” metaphor it is implied that he intends to include ALL the commandments belonging to the “tables of stone”, as now transferred to the “flesh stones”. Otherwise, the use of the comparison wouldn’t make sense and he would have to employ a different and more appropriate language in vs. 3:3, something like “being manifested as letter of Christ, ministered for us, and written, not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in tables of flesh of the heart, i.e., only nine commandments of the tables of stones, excluded that of the Sabbath day. . .” But that was not Paul’s language. Consequently, the Sabbath commandment SHOULD BE INCLUDED on the tables of flesh..

Conclusion: In 2 Corinthians 3 Paul doesn’t say that the law is of death, but the ministry of the old covenant came to be like that. The Pauline illustration of “tables of stone/tables of flesh” deals with the old divine promise to Israel in Ezekiel 36:26, 27 that by the action of the Spirit the stony heart would be removed from them so that a more malleable fleshy heart were granted. On the heart of flesh the complete God’s moral law would be written, as promised in the New Covenant (Heb. 8:6-10).

As Paul employs the “tables of stone/tables of flesh” allegory, which is about the same used by Ezekiel (see 11:19, 20 and 36:26, 27), he certainly wouldn’t think of excluding any part of the “tables of stone”, as Ezekiel wouldn’t either. Otherwise the Apostle would have to explain that the Christian would be a letter written, not in tables of stones, but in tables of flesh, excluding the Sabbath commandment, or something on this line.

Paul’s intention is to show that for the Christians renewed by the Spirit, the terms of the divine moral law leave the cold tables of stone to be recorded on their hearts warmed by God’s grace (see Rom. 8: 3, 4). That makes the semi-antinomian interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3:3ff another interpretative “shot” that backfires.

The above was originally included in post #138914 by A.G. Brito on the thread, "Some Challenging Questions."