When Christ's character shall be perfectly reproduced in his people...

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

It is those that support it that usually give me an inkling of where accepting it will go.

I know exactly what you're saying brother. Amen.

How come you only call "brother" those that seem to agree with you? More Adventist special talk. It is the mark of the beast to talk like this.

[olger]

Boys boys boys.

The notion that people "have" to sin, is disrespectful of the gospel.

There is nothing that the Lord Jesus cannot do with a life given to Him on condition of surrender.

Lift Him up™,

G

[Overaged]

I do agree with Twilight, the ministry of The Holy Spirit is essential, and often overlooked, but conversely, we often are too general and presumptive of His involvement in the believer's life. In other words, we really don't dwell on the Holy Spirits life in us; because we don't know much about it. We need desperately to learn to recognize His working in us and others.

[Twilight]

I do agree with Twilight, the ministry of The Holy Spirit is essential, and often overlooked, but conversely, we often are too general and presumptive of His involvement in the believer's life. In other words, we really don't dwell on the Holy Spirits life in us; because we don't know much about it. We need desperately to learn to recognize His working in us and others.

If I am honest, I am deeply surprised at the lack of knowledge amongst many SDA's on the most basic principles of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I think some fear it, because of the charismatic extremes that some manifest claiming the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The best books I have read on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have sadly been ouside the SDA faith, like Andrew Murray, Brother Lawrence, Jean Guyon.

What is even sadder, is that many SDA's will not even consider reading these author's.

Gary F Williams (SDA) has written a good book though, which I am going through at the moment.

"How to be filled with the Holy Spirit."

But if one wants to learn how to recognise the leading of the Holy Spirit, then "Experiencing the depths of Christ" by Jean Guyon has been one of the most powerful books I have ever read...

Sadly the last time I mentioned her writings on here, many wanted to burn her at the stake because of the way she writes (very spiritual).

I was also accused of being into "spiritualism", whatever that means... :-)

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is essential to us all.

"Fear God and give Him glory..."

[pnattmbtc]

That's not what the Bible means when it says "being under the law." Jack Sequiera has twisted the gospel so badly, with so many scriptures; it is impossible to not be confused by what he says. You should stop referring to his ideas, and just give us Bible reasons for what you say.

I asked you to please not do this. Robert is one person, Sequiera is another. If you're going to speak ill Sequeira, wouldn't it be right and fair to quote something he's said, and explain what you're taking issue with, and why?

[pnattmbtc]

It's Jones, not Waggoner. Here's a portion:

Quote:

Any man, therefore, in all the world, who knows guilt, by that very thing knows also what Jesus felt for him and by this knows how close Jesus has come to him. Whosoever knows what is condemnation in that knows exactly what Jesus felt for him and so knows how thoroughly Jesus is able to sympathize with him and to redeem him.

Whosoever knows the curse of sin, "the plague of his own heart," in that can know exactly what Jesus experienced for him and how entirely Jesus identified Himself, in very experience, with him.

Bearing guilt, being under condemnation and so under the weight of the curse, Jesus, a whole lifetime in this world of guilt, condemnation, and the curse, lived the perfect life of the righteousness of God, without ever sinning at all. And whenever any man knowing guilt, condemnation, and the curse of sin, and knowing that Jesus actually felt in His experience all this just as man feels it; then, in addition, that man by believing in Jesus can know in his experience the blessedness of the perfect life of the righteousness of God in his life to redeem him from guilt, from condemnation, and from the curse; and to be manifested in his whole lifetime to keep him from ever sinning at all.

Christ was made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law. And that blessed work is accomplished for every soul who accepts of that redemption.

This is so good!

[pnattmbtc]

You could not understand it Pnat, because you believe that the law written in the mind is what is meant by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

That's not what the Bible means when it says "being under the law." Jack Sequiera has twisted the gospel so badly, with so many scriptures; it is impossible to not be confused by what he says. You should stop referring to his ideas, and just give us Bible reasons for what you say.

I asked you to please not do this. Robert is one person, Sequiera is another. If you're going to speak ill Sequeira, wouldn't it be right and fair to quote something he's said, and explain what you're taking issue with, and why?

MY questions/comments re JS stand. Everyone is free to comment, including Robert. Sequiera has gone his own way, invented his own religion. Maybe you need to actually study his writings yourself and compare them to Adventist teachings. This thread is supposed to be about Christ's character being "perfectly reproduced" in us. Jack totally confuses the issue.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

You could not understand it Pnat, because you believe that the law written in the mind is what is meant by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

That's not how I would put it. I would say that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit refers to the intimacy of mind with mind, the Holy Spirit communicating the thoughts of God to us, and His presence, mind with mind, when we respond to His promptings.

Quote:

Rather than the literal spiritual presence of God in you.

I disagree. It is a literal spiritual presence. It's not an unexplainable physical presence in the literal kidneys or literal heart muscle.

Quote:

So you confuse the work the Holy Spirit does in you, with His presence.

The Holy Spirit communicates with our minds, and that is how we perceive His presence.

Quote:

Unless of course you have changed your position.

I've never said the presence of the Holy Spirit is the work He does in us. That's never been my position.

Quote:

God dwells in us spiritually when we are born again.

Yes, spiritually. Not physically in our kidneys or heart muscle.

Quote:

His personal presence is in us, with us.

As a person.

Yes, spiritually, by means of communicating with our mind (or spirit).

Quote:

The bible talks of this over and over, yet you did not seem able to accept this last time we talked about this.

I don't accept the idea that this means a physical presence in our kidneys or heart muscle.

Quote:

It was that, that you could not seem to understand, which is why my responses made no sense to you.

It doesn't make sense to me that the Holy Spirit is physically present in our kidneys or heart muscle, that this is what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit means.

Quote:

The work of the Holy Spirit on your heart and mind is not the same as the presence of the Holy Spirit in you.A man juggling balls in a room is juggling. He is not a "juggling". He is a "juggler".

Until you grasp that, you will not understand any of this. I ask you the same question that Paul asked of the Corinthians. Don't you know the Holy Spirit literally dwells in you?

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Paul meant the Holy Spirit is physically in our literal kidneys or heart muscle?

Quote:

We are God's workmanship, and His Word declares that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made." He has prepared this living habitation for the mind; it is "curiously wrought," a temple which the Lord Himself has fitted up for the indwelling of His Holy Spirit. The mind controls the whole man. All our actions, good or bad, have their source in the mind. It is the mind that worships God and allies us to heavenly beings. Yet many spend all their lives without becoming intelligent in regard to the casket [the human body] that contains this treasure.--Child Guidance, p. 360. {RC 149.2}

Isn't this clear?

Where have I said that God is a physical presence in us?

The Holy Spirit is spiritual not physical.

Do you agree that the Holy Spirit resides in us?

That the actual Spiritual presence of God is in us.

Not just outside of us and talking to us?

[pnattmbtc]

Where have I said that God is a physical presence in us?

[pnattmbtc]

MY questions/comments re JS stand. Everyone is free to comment, including Robert.

[Overaged]

I have all of JSs books and I have been to his website a lot. You are the one slandering. I stated a general opinion; you are now on your soapbox. Have fun.

[Overaged]

quote]This thread is supposed to be about Christ's character being "perfectly reproduced" in us. Jack totally confuses the issue./quote]

This is another baseless accusation.

Thanks for showing us "Christ's perfect character." I'll file this under "G"

[Guest]

How come you only call "brother" those that seem to agree with you? More Adventist special talk. It is the mark of the beast to talk like this.

I have some very basic bible studies I can send you if you like. If you go through them you can find out what the mark of the beast actually is. Let me know.

[Guest]

Boys boys boys.

The notion that people "have" to sin, is disrespectful of the gospel.

There is nothing that the Lord Jesus cannot do with a life given to Him on condition of surrender.

Lift Him up™,

G

Amen brother!!!

[teresaq]

That's not what the Bible means when it says "being under the law." Jack Sequiera has twisted the gospel so badly, with so many scriptures; it is impossible to not be confused by what he says. You should stop referring to his ideas, and just give us Bible reasons for what you say.

[teresaq]

He made Robert believe he can keep right on sinning until Jesus comes, and still be saved.

how did he do that, richard?

are you saying that robert has no free will of his own?

are you saying that people do not have the ability to misunderstand, misrepresent and misinterpret what is said?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

How come you only call "brother" those that seem to agree with you? More Adventist special talk. It is the mark of the beast to talk like this.

I have some very basic bible studies I can send you if you like. If you go through them you can find out what the mark of the beast actually is. Let me know.

it helps to know that ellen white speaks of "stages" in our spiritual growth... the newly rescued israelites from bondage were at the bottom of the spiritual ladder because of their degraded condition, while moses was at a high spiritual level.

while we do need to watch for error-but not in our own understanding-growing spiritually means being able to see more and more of the picture, instead of staying at the lowest, most concrete level.

[Guest]

Thanks for sharing this valuable information.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

How come you only call "brother" those that seem to agree with you? More Adventist special talk. It is the mark of the beast to talk like this.

I have some very basic bible studies I can send you if you like. If you go through them you can find out what the mark of the beast actually is. Let me know.

Just kidding brother. But YOU probably know that.

[teresaq]

Okay, so now how do YOU take that? Do you know anyone who is there?

What is this character perfectly reproduced? Is it the best vegetarian?

i dont know if others get from this what i get...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

lukes understanding of what "perfect" meant,

Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

kjv Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

James 2:13 (New American Standard Bible)

13For (A)judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

cross references given from biblegateway

proverbs 21:13He who (A)shuts his ear to the cry of the poor

Will also cry himself and not be (B)answered.

matt 5: 7"Blessed are (A)the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

matt 18:32"Then summoning him, his lord said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.

33'(A)Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'

34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

35"(B)My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."

luke 6: 37"(A)Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; (B)pardon, and you will be pardoned.

wasnt that why Christ came?

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

soooo, are we looking in the wrong place?

[pnattmbtc]

O:This thread is supposed to be about Christ's character being "perfectly reproduced" in us. Jack totally confuses the issue./quote]

p:This is another baseless accusation.

O:Thanks for showing us "Christ's perfect character."

[pnattmbtc]

Overaged:Robert, do not use your false Sequira "gospel" to teach people that they are free to cast away the "law of the Holy One of Israel:"

pnattmbtc:Please don't do this. This isn't fair to Sequeira. Sequeira is not Robert, no matter how much Robert quotes him or references him. If you have an issue with Sequeira, you should quote him, and point out what you disagree with.

Richard:He made Robert believe he can keep right on sinning until Jesus comes, and still be saved.

[teresaq]

makes you wonder why robert hates sdas, doesnt it? lol with such good Christlike examples running around.

[Guest]

makes you wonder why robert hates sdas, doesnt it? lol with such good Christlike examples running around.

Would you be one of those good Christlike examples?