Is the Adventist Church Really Pro-life?

[Nic Samojluk]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Nic, from what school did you earn your PhD, and in which journal was your dissertation published?

possibly more important is it a biased dissertation, meaning did it leave out much that would give a different picture to the whole subject?

Probably yes. I would like to see more investigation into this issue. If you have the time, please read my dissertation, or at least read the conclusions I have reached which are at the end of my report, and tell me where I went wrong. I am as biased as any other investigator, and I would like to see someone help me see the mistakes I have made. Will you take the time to do this? I invested thousands of clock hours into this. Will you spare a few hours to give me a critique?

[teresaq]

You can't ignore the reference to "murder" in James White quote. Whether James was demanding more sex from his wife has nothing to do with the murder he is talking about.

[Nic Samojluk]

ah...an online university.

It doesn't appear that they offer a PhD degree. Andrew Jackson University

You are correct. I was one of the last participants in their Ph.D. program. The program was discontinued and it is no longer offered. If you go to my web site you will see the picture of my Ph.D. certificate. There is a picture of it there. Read, and call Andrew Jackson University and ask them to verify what I am saying.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Where was your PhD published? In what journal? For this to be a legitimate degree it must be published. If it was not published you are not a holder of a legitimately recognized PhD. Perhaps the school was not accredited to administer a PhD program. Perhaps you hold nothing but a piece of worthless paper.

[Nic Samojluk]

and nic, state of the dead, remember? sdas believe in an unconscious state of the dead, so the unborn is not living with any "consequences". it is in a peaceful state of rest awaiting resurrection morn.

Does this mean that murdering my neighbor is morally acceptable or morally neutral. If I sedate him and then kill him, he will not suffer the consequences. What is true about the unborn is also true about the born. Both are human beings. Taking the life of another human being is forbidden by the Sixth commandment. Do we need more? If this were not true, Scott Peterson would have never been charged with the double murder of his wife and the unborn baby she was carrying!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I am sure. I spoke with a University Professor today.

[Nic Samojluk]

God is never silent on moral issues... the problem is that people don't want to ask Him how He feels about destroying the life He created...

Thanks! It's so good to know that we are not alone in defense of the most vulnerable members of humanity.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You come on this forum wearing a warbonnet and waving a PhD dissertation that is now suspect in its legitimacy, and thereby calling into question your competency in this field. I feel sorry for you.

[Nic Samojluk]

In which journal was your doctoral dissertation published?

Good question! Whether it was published by the university, I have no idea. I did never ask said question. Since the program was being discontinued, my guess would be that they never published it. I was planning to publish it in book form, but I neither had the money nor the time to do this.

In my effort to complete the dissertation, I neglected my main source of income, real estate, and had to go back to my business. I did mortgage my future for the sake of the unborn and for the sake of my church without hoping of ever recouping my investment.

If I am lucky, perhaps I might have the fortune to publish it in book form before I join others who are waiting for the resurrection. At 77, I have no idea when the Lord may call me to rest of my lobours.

Nevertheless, since we do have the Internet option, the pressure to get my work published has slightly diminished. I have it online. My concern is that all my effort might evaporate once I am gone and my web site is swalloowed by a cyber space black hole.

[Nic Samojluk]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

Common sense, a love for human life, the Bible, The SOP, and the Holy Spirit all reveal to me that abortion is a great evil that God will avenge.

really?

lets see what the great evils are that God will avenge,

1. Rev 11:18 ... and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

2, 3, 4. Exo 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Exo 22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.

Exo 22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry;

Exo 22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

and part of the righteousness of job

Quote:

Job 29:12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.

Job 29:13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

...

Job 29:15 I was eyes to the blind, and feet was I to the lame.

Job 29:16 I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.

all of this relates to the born, there is nothing that relates to the unborn.

it seems to me that we have enough to do to take care of the born, than to meddle in Gods problems. He gave us the work of caring for the poor and needy. He will take care of His problem concerning the unborn.

GLOBAL HUNGER

• 25,000 people (adults and children) die every day from hunger and related causes;

• 963 million people do not have enough to eat - more than the populations of USA, Canada and the European Union;

• The number of undernourished people in the world increased by 75 million in 2007 and 40 million, largely due to higher food prices;

• 907 million people in developing countries alone are hungry;

• Asia and the Pacific region is home to over half the world’s population and nearly two thirds of the world’s hungry people;

• More than 60 percent of chronically hungry people are women

I will offer a deal for you: You take care of the born, and let me and other pro-lifers take care of the unborn.

[Nic Samojluk]

it is written,

Quote:

Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

Yes, God asks us to "loose the bands of wickedness," and wickedness is defined by the Ten Commandments. One of them forbids murder. Is this too difficult to understand? Those who keep the whole law, but break one of the Ten, are guilty of breaking the Ten. If you get a speeding ticket, and you tell the judge that you have been feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, this will not help you getting your fine voided.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I really would like you to understand that I am NOT for abortions except when a mother's life is at risk, or in the case of rape or incest. But I won't judge anyone's decision to have an abortion.

Pro-lifers need to understand that there would be a vast number of deformed children who would always need to be institutionalized and never live a normal life if not for abortion. Are you willing to take care of *those* children?

Abortion is a difficult decision for a woman to make. Don't make it any harder for her by Bible thumping her. Or forcing her to go to a back alley to obtain an abortion. At least have the compassion to let her go to a place, SDA or not, where a safe procedure can be done.

[teresaq]

Yes, God asks us to "loose the bands of wickedness," and wickedness is defined by the Ten Commandments. One of them forbids murder. Is this too difficult to understand? Those who keep the whole law, but break one of the Ten, are guilty of breaking the Ten. If you get a speeding ticket, and you tell the judge that you have been feeding the hungry and clothing the naked, this will not help you getting your fine voided.

[Nic Samojluk]

Where was your PhD published? In what journal? For this to be a legitimate degree it must be published. If it was not published you are not a holder of a legitimately recognized PhD. Perhaps the school was not accredited to administer a PhD program. Perhaps you hold nothing but a piece of worthless paper.

Did I ever say that the school was acredited? They had applied for acreditation, and I signed into the program because at the time it was the only online program I was able to locate. You can read the details of the program and decide whether it matched the programs of other acredited schools.

The request for acreditation failed, and this is precisely the reason the program was discontinued. Does this mean that my investigation was not worth a dime? Why can't you judge the results of my disseretation on its own merits. Did you read it? Where did I go wrong in my conclusions? I would be delighted to read your honest critique of my work!

Are you suggesting that only those who have gone through an acredited school are entitled to investigate an issue like abortion? Many books are written by individuals who have never gone through a Ph.D. program, acredited of non-acredited. Are you saying that their work is worthless because they do not have a Ph.D.?

[teresaq]

I will offer a deal for you: You take care of the born, and let me and other pro-lifers take care of the unborn.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Where was your PhD published? In what journal? For this to be a legitimate degree it must be published. If it was not published you are not a holder of a legitimately recognized PhD. Perhaps the school was not accredited to administer a PhD program. Perhaps you hold nothing but a piece of worthless paper.

Did I ever say that the school was acredited? They had applied for acreditation, and I signed into the program because at the time it was the only online program I was able to locate. You can read the details of the program and decide whether it matched the programs of other acredited schools.

The request for acreditation failed, and this is precisely the reason the program was discontinued.

[Nic Samojluk]

You come on this forum wearing a warbonnet and waving a PhD dissertation that is now suspect in its legitimacy, and thereby calling into question your competency in this field. I feel sorry for you.

And I am sorry for you because you are judging a book by looking at its cover. Tell me, can you tell me which university Jesus graduated from? How about John the Baptist? How many influential book authors hold Ph.D. degrees from acredited universities? Do you read only books written by holders of Ph.D. degrees from acreditd universities? Did billy Grahan earn a Ph.D. degree from an acredited university?

Why are you focusing on my degree instead of centering on my work? Does this mean that you have found nothing derogative to say about what I did write? How many of those you agree with hold Ph.D. degrees from acredited schools? Why don't you attack my ideas instead of demeaning my diploma? Is what I have written contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

No, I'm saying that you don't have a legitimate PhD. Of course, anyone can do research. A college senior could have done the research you did. I can see you did a lot of work. That's good. But you started the whole thing in a prejudicial status. A good PhD research paper begins with a thesis and then develops the paper along that line of inquiry. *You* looked for certain things that you were hoping to find to bolster your position. You didn't provide pro and con arguments. A good researcher will look at all sides of the subject and draw conclusions from that. End of lesson.

[teresaq]

Tell me, can you tell me which university Jesus graduated from?

Jesus didnt make any claims to having doctoral dissertations.

[teresaq]

your post was better than mine. :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Nic wrote:

Quote:

Is what I have written contrary to the clear teaching of Scripture?

It is not contrary to scripture; abortion is not mentioned in scripture. God is silent about it.

[doug yowell]

You come on this forum wearing a warbonnet and waving a PhD dissertation that is now suspect in its legitimacy, and thereby calling into question your competency in this field. I feel sorry for you.

Yeah, that's deep RW,and downright Christlike too.The fact that you are able to question a person's legitimate PhD and competency based on your disagreement with his viewpoint rather than the content of his argument speaks more of your self-confidence that of anyone's competency. You ask for Biblical and historical SDA evidence and then reject it when it is given. You criticize prolifers for mindlessly accepting the "teachings of men" and then challenge the legitimacy of Nic's PhD. YOU demand that others not judge the woman who aborts her unborn child while charging them with trying to force THEIR beliefs on you.You claim that God is silent on abortion but refuse to be silent yourself. While Ellen White NEVER criticized even one of our church founders for their public condemnation of abortion you take it upon yourself to provide what you think she missed.If your defense of God's truth must resort to adhominum attacks,then please,don't feel sorry for Nic.

[Nic Samojluk]

I really would like you to understand that I am NOT for abortions except when a mother's life is at risk, or in the case of rape or incest. But I won't judge anyone's decision to have an abortion.

Pro-lifers need to understand that there would be a vast number of deformed children who would always need to be institutionalized and never live a normal life if not for abortion. Are you willing to take care of *those* children?

Abortion is a difficult decision for a woman to make. Don't make it any harder for her by Bible thumping her. Or forcing her to go to a back alley to obtain an abortion. At least have the compassion to let her go to a place, SDA or not, where a safe procedure can be done.

We need to judge laws by their fruits. Your way of thinking has given us 50 million of dead babies. Are you suggesting that those 50 miilion would have lived a life not worth living? Had those 50 million been allowed to live, most of them would be now working and providing for the support of the retiring generation. We reap what we sow. We killed an entire generation, and now our welfare, our social security, our medicare, and our healthcare programs are broke.

Sixty years ago, our country was the largest creditor in the world. Today we are the greatest debtor, and our largest creditor are communists. We reap what we sow!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I made no ad hominum attacks on Nic. Go cool off.

[teresaq]

We need to judge laws by their fruits. Your way of thinking has given us 50 million of dead babies.