Is the Adventist Church Really Pro-life?

[Nic Samojluk]

Quote:

You have made some good suggestions like outlawing adultery, divorce, and fornication. ... If the people were ready for regulating such immoral behavior, I would readily vote for them.

yes, this is the very mentality of which i reference.

it isnt just about abortion or homosexuality, it goes far deeper. it is about the need to control ones fellowman.

Did I include homosexuality, or are you reading my mind? Perhaps I did, but for some reason I don't recall doing it. If you possess the rare ability common to mind readers, then perhaps I should let you do my postings! I did mention adultery, divorce, and fornication, which impact my bottom line. My taxes are impacted by the crazy and stupid behavior of adulterers, fornicators, and those who divorce and let society pick the tab.

[Nic Samojluk]

Hi Nic, I have some thoughts on this. These Adventist publications you speak of have a liberal slant to one degree or another, especially Spectrum and Adventist today. These publications will not be inclined to accept just about anything thats solidly rooted in the Bible;abortion and homosexuality for sure, along with correct soteriology. So one will encounter bias towards certain views no matter the educational status of the writer.

This text comes to mind:

Isa 59:14 And justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

You probably already publish your views on the web, and writing a book could be an option as well as searching for other venues that will accept your papers.

I personally can attest to the fact that I've had many conversations with Adventist theologians and others with degrees that are simply lost in space about critical bible doctrines and appear to be having theological nightmares.

Ellen White agrees that Bible understanding is attained through the Holy Spirit:

Many a portion of Scripture which learned men pronounce a mystery, or pass over as unimportant, is full of comfort and instruction to him who has been taught in the school of Christ. One reason why many theologians have no clearer understanding of God's word is, they close their eyes to truths which they do not wish to practice. As understanding of Bible truth depends not so much on the power of intellect brought to the search as on the singleness of purpose, the earnest longing after righteousness. {GC 599.2}

Steve,

Yes, I am well aware of the liberal nature of those publications. I was present when Adventist Today was in the process of being born. I did vote for the creation of said magazine with the hope that it would provide a venue for people like myself who had no chance of getting published by the official Adventist publications on the issue of abortion. Of course, I was rather naïve; nevertheless, I must admit that eventually Adventist Today did publish my views twice: “Adventist Apathy Towards the Plight of the Unborn” [2007 January/February issue] and “A Light at the End of the Tunnel” http://www.atoday.com/comment/reply/4278#comment-form .

My experience with the official Adventist publication was terribly unsuccessful. Many years ago I wrote an innocuous article connected with our fundamental beliefs. The article was approved for publication and I received a check for $ 50 dollars in payment for my efforts. This took place probably 15 or 20 years ago; I am still waiting for them to publish it.

In addition, on several occasions I attempted to get my pro-life views published in other Adventist magazines to no avail. The answer was: “The issue is rather controversial.” This excuse sounded rather hollow, because I wanted to respond to articles which had been published in defense of the pro-abortion position of other writers. One of them argued that unborn babies had no right to life whatsoever until they had a chance to take their first breath.

Do you detect in this a bias in defense of the killing of the unborn and the direct violation of the Sixth Commandment? So what do you think: Are we still the “Remnant Church of God” which keeps God’s commandments, and has the last message of hope for a “perishing world”?

[Nic Samojluk]

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

So why are you demanding that I verify the legitimacy of my credentials?

At the outset of your remarks you said you had done your PhD on this subject. That implied greater than normal knowledge on your part.

Did you defend your dissertation in front of a panel of professors? I hope so....that's important to do.

The answer is "No." Everything was done online.

By the way, as you can see, I am answering all your probing questions, while you are refusing to answer mine. Why are you refusing to remove the mask off your face? Can you explain why you are hiding behind a pseudonym. The carnival season is over and its time to reveal your real face to the whole world. If you keep ignoring my questions, I may decide to ignore yours in the future.

Whether I possess superior knowledge or not should be determined by reading my dissertation and the conclusions I have reached. I have asked you this several times already: Have you read my dissertation? Have you discovered that I am in error in some of the factual details of my investigation. Why are you beating around the bushes?

Are you aware that your tactics are peculiar to those who are loosing an argument? Instead of discussing the real issue, they begin to attack the credemntials of the opposer.

[Nic Samojluk]

Nic wrote:

Quote:

The Bible commands that we judge right, not that we refrain from judging.

Matthew 7:1,2 says "Do not judge, or you too will be judged, and with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Yes! If you judge right, you in turn will be judged right! What is wrong with that?

[Woody]

This has been declared ... "be kind to rudywoofs week". Please respect that. And btw ... rudywoofs is not hiding ... she had her photo on here for years. But being the wise person that she is ... like me she realized that the internet is not a safe place to display personal information. Those who don't have their head in the sand will realize this. Especially for women.

[Woody]

Quote:

My experience with the official Adventist publication was terribly unsuccessful. Many years ago I wrote an innocuous article connected with our fundamental beliefs. The article was approved for publication and I received a check for $ 50 dollars in payment for my efforts.

Well ... you are better off than I am. I wrote for the Review ... it was published ... but I didn't get paid anything.

Count your blessings.

[oldsailor29]

Originally Posted By: oldsailor29

But on the subject, the female reproductive organs are the pattern for the temple. The womb is the most holy place, from which creation occurs. There is only one high priest allowed in the most holy place. If another person enters, the most holy place is soiled and must be cleansed. The only holy creation which comes from the most holy place of a woman is that which comes from her husband. If there is any other creation coming from her womb, it should be cleansed.

That's a clever way of justifying murder. I haven't heard this before. You seem to very original in defending the indefensible!

I don't know if it is murder, and I don't know how original is the analogy. I have never before heard it, but maybe some have.

And BTW if we are all judged justly, then we all go to hell. Judging rightly sends people to hell. It is better not to judge.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

Quote:

Few are aware of the fearful extent to which this nefarious business, this worse than devilish practice, is carried on in all classes of society! Many a woman determines that she will not become a mother, and subjects herself to the vilest treatment, committing the basest crime to carry out her purpose. And many a man, who has as many children as he can support, instead of restraining his passions, aids in the destruction of the babes he has begotten. The sin lies at the door of both parents in equal measure; for the father, although he may not always aid in the murder, is always accessory to it, in that he induces, and sometimes even forces upon the mother the condition which he knows will lead to the commission of the crime.

James White. Solemn Appeal (Battle Creek, Michigan: Stem Press, 1870), 100.

the unbiased objective reader would check out the source to see if it is in context AND if that particular paragraph had been written by james white. you obviously havent.

But I have and I did document the reference!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

At the outset of your remarks you said you had done your PhD on this subject. That implied greater than normal knowledge on your part.

Did you defend your dissertation in front of a panel of professors? I hope so....that's important to do.

The answer is "No." Everything was done online.

Since you didn't even have to defend your dissertation, your PhD degree and dissertation are basically worthless. I'm sorry to tell you that. I know you went to a lot of work doing research to try and bolster your idea. But it was doomed from the start because you began it with prejudice. The school advisor you had should have told you that.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

The answer is "No." Everything was done online.

Since you didn't even have to defend your dissertation' date=' your PhD degree and dissertation are basically worthless. I'm sorry to tell you that. I know you went to a lot of work doing research to try and bolster your idea. But it was doomed from the start because you began it with prejudice. The school advisor you had should have told you that.

[/quote']see

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/312267.html#Post312267

[Steve Billiter]

REDWOOD. please direct me to the article so I can read it!

Thanks, Steve

[Nic Samojluk]

Since you didn't even have to defend your dissertation, your PhD degree and dissertation are basically worthless. I'm sorry to tell you that. I know you went to a lot of work doing research to try and bolster your idea. But it was doomed from the start because you began it with prejudice. The school advisor you had should have told you that.

Rudiwoofs,

What you are saying applies to traditional Ph.D. programs where you are required to personally attend to lectures by university professors. Mine was an online program. Are you familiar with the online programs where there are no such requirements? The entire Ph. D. program I signed up for was monitored by the accreditation committee.

Are you suggesting that the accreditation committee overlooked something which according to you renders my work worthless? Why don’t you bring this up with the Andrew Jackson University and the accreditation committee which supervised the entire Ph.D. program? You are wasting your time with me. Of course, if you have nothing else to do then it’s your choice. I will address the balance of your comments in my next posting.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I am familiar with online PhD programs. Accredited ones will require you to defend your dissertation in some manner. Perhaps this is one reason the accreditation was not granted to that particular institution.

I would have also suggested you take a statistics class. Your "Statistics" section only provided percentages. That's not sound statistical reasoning, IMHO.

[Nic Samojluk]

I know you went to a lot of work doing research to try and bolster your idea. But it was doomed from the start because you began it with prejudice. The school advisor you had should have told you that.

Rudiwoofs,

You claim that I began my investigation with prejudice. Before I attempt to prove you wrong, let me ask you: Are you aware that most of the research which is being conducted starts with a hunch? Take the case of the Adventist health research which has been going on for many years and which has provided sufficient evidence to suggest that the Adventist lifestyle has some specific advantages. Tell me: Did not said research start with a hunch that they might be onto something? Was said research ruled to be worthless by other researchers and by the media?

Now let me consider my own investigation. I was faced with conflicting claims about the Adventist true position on abortion. The current General Conference president of Adventists did publicly claim that Adventist were pro-life. At the same time recognized experts in this area like James Walters, of Loma Linda University, were claiming that the Adventist Church was in fact pro-choice. In addition a leading representative from the GC assured a telephone caller that our church was definitely pro-choice. This provided me with the hunch that both claims could not be right. Was my hunch prejudicial?

At the end of a laborious analysis of all that had been written in Adventist media between 1970 and 2006, I concluded that the Adventist Church was in fact pro-choice instead of being pro-life as Jan Paulson had claimed. Do you dispute the accuracy of my investigation results? I also discovered in the process the surprising fact that our earliest Adventist pioneers were pro-life and considered that killing the unborn was a direct violation of the Sixth Commandment and labeled such action as “murder.” Do you dispute this?

I have more to day, but I will leave it for my next posting.

[Nic Samojluk]

This has been declared ... "be kind to rudywoofs week". Please respect that. And btw ... rudywoofs is not hiding ... she had her photo on here for years. But being the wise person that she is ... like me she realized that the internet is not a safe place to display personal information. Those who don't have their head in the sand will realize this. Especially for women.

Good answer! I agree, and I hereby remove my request that she disclose her identity. For some reason, I took for granted that rudiwoofs was a male.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

A "hunch" is not prejudice. Your whole dissertation was based on prejudice.

[Nic Samojluk]

And BTW if we are all judged justly, then we all go to hell. Judging rightly sends people to hell. It is better not to judge.

Saint Paul did tell us to judge, and to judge rightly.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

I know you went to a lot of work doing research to try and bolster your idea. But it was doomed from the start because you began it with prejudice. The school advisor you had should have told you that.

Rudiwoofs,

You claim that I began my investigation with prejudice. Before I attempt to prove you wrong...

see

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/312267.html#Post312267

[John317]

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

The above paragraph was written by E. P. Paul, a physician. James and Ellen White were not the only ones who contributed to the writings found in the Solemn Appeal. Ellen White's articles in the Appeal are clearly labeled as such.

This information was given to me five minutes ago by the Ellen White Estate in Loma Linda. [/quote']

Thank you, John317, for clearing up that error in documentation.

[John317]

[Woody]

REDWOOD. please direct me to the article so I can read it!

Thanks, Steve

Nice Try. You just want to know my name so you can follow through on your threat against me. No. I will not be tricked. And why would I want you to apply your legalistic beliefs in contrast to the Truth.

[John317]

I wrote for the Review ... it was published ...

What was the title and date of the piece?

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

REDWOOD. please direct me to the article so I can read it!

Thanks, Steve

Nice Try. You just want to know my name so you can follow through on your threat against me. No. I will not be tricked. And why would I want you to apply your legalistic beliefs in contrast to the Truth.

I'm having a bit of trouble believing you have an article on the review.Last time I checked, articles promoting Jack Sequeria were not allowed. Try Spectrum.

Why don't you just post your article on here sans your real name, that we we can review it? Why, you never know, we may all learn something beneficial from your pearls of wisdom!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]