SDA's Have A New Prophet.

February 8, 2005

Quote:

>>I don't see how anyone could not be excited and cut to the quick all at once to see her news.<< We know Jesus is coming. We can see the signs being fulfilled all around us in startling and dramatic ways never before dreamt.

We all know the late 1980s and 1990s were a TOTAL "lull" period on that front, other than perhaps the collapse of communism (no small feat, that).

Re: >> << Some of those who have lived more years have heard very similar experiences and realize that the experiences didn't bring Jesus back to this earth, even though they were highly excited at the time. Some then have

more or less lost their enthusiasm. Others, though, have only sublimated a deep sense of excitement that doesn't rely on outward signs to make the words of Jesus stir a deep

and abiding thrill.

[:"red"] "Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near." Luke 21:28 [/]

It would be good to read all of Luke 21, realizing the signs indicated in this chapter include both events of a local nature as well as universal, mingled with each other.

[:"red"] "And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come." [/] Luke 19:13 KJV

Lift Jesus up!!

February 8, 2005

Nico,

I spent about an hour making an effort to clarify what you had asked about in questions. When I hit the button to continue I was sent on a wild goose chase after being logged off. Having lost the post I figured the answer must not be what God wanted promoted. Sometimes??? God has a lot better answers than we can give. Keep looking up!

Lift Jesus up!!

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

The bible holds the test of a prophet. Does she pass the test? I think its early days yet.

If an angel came and visited me, if even it was a true angel of God, that still wouldn't make me a prophet.

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

One thing he preached hard about was how arrogant it is for us to think we can take up arms and force other countries to have freedom and democracy, that they must choose that for themselves!

I don't know how much history you remember but at the end of the first Gulf War the Iraqis took up arms themselves to overthrough Saddam. The first President Bush had promised to support them and failed to do so. As a result Saddam slaughtered them. That is one of the reasons we have had problems the last year and a half. Many Iraqis do not trust that the US will really follow through with its commitment.

So my point is that the Iraqis did choose freedom and democracy for themselves at the end of the first Gulf War. At least many of them did. But they were crushed by Saddam.

Anyway, we can carry on this conversation in World Affairs.

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If an angel came and visited me, if even it was a true angel of God, that still wouldn't make me a prophet.

Actually, wouldnt it depend on the angels instructions to you? If you are told, "take these words and warn the people" and whatever you were told comes to pass. Doesnt that make you a prophet? How many times must that happen before you are a prophet? Do we, the lay people, make the prophet or does God make the prophet and we either accept or reject the person/words? If we rejected the person/words, are they still a prophet of God?

February 9, 2005

Quote:

So let me get this straight. Angel of God says meet Pastor John Carter. Brother Neil says Pastor John Carter is bad news for Adventist church. Hmmmmmmm, now who should I go with

Let me explain where I am coming from, and then maybe you can see what I am getting at.

First a question-

Am I allowed to have a healthy dose of skeptism regarding the vision of this lady?

I hope you will allow me to be skeptical...

Where is this lady comeing from? Can you honestly tell me that she is not duping Carter? What evidence do we have that she was truely visited by an Angel from God? Was that Angel a prefall Angel or a Post fall Angel? IOWs, even satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. We are allowed to be skeptical of this lady because she has not shown evidence that her words are from God.....

And let's be honest here, can we be skeptical? What evidence is there that shows that she is from God?

Well, there is this letter from the Arizona Conference. But is it truely from the Arizona Conference? And even if it was, is that confirmation that she is from God? Can conferences be duped in thier belief? Anyone remember the Davenport issue???? 'nuff said against the conference.

She mentions all these leaders and she has never heard of them before....Who says that she hasn't heard of them before? If she is a liar, or prone to make exagerated claims, she could have easily heard of these men before. I mean, come on, it's not like we have hid these leading evangelists in a closet or something....They have TV ministries and radio ministries....They are who the public recognises as part of the Advenist church....

Now, she comes out on the "Carter Report" and is shown as a woman with a vision. IMO, anything that comes from Carter is bogus.But that is MY opinion. The reason for this opinion is quite simple. I have a paster friend who worked with Carter before. For over a year, he worked with Carter, talked with Carter, worked the back scenes with Carter, did bible studies for and with Carter. After a year, he got out because after 3 months, he knew that Carter was a sensationalist. IOWs, Carter stretches the truth of any situation that suited him and the Adventist cause. He has put the Adventist Church in a bad light among it's critics with some of the claims that he has put out. My paster friend, who worked with Carter for over a year, is still in the pastorical minstry, but refuses to have anything to do with Carter because Carter has that 'adventist' mentality.

So, when Carter parades this woman, with visions !, on his show, you can bet it is for promoting that the Adventist church is THE church of God and this is PROOF that God is visiting us with ANOTHER prophet! Sorry, but I don't think that Carter is to be trusted at all....

Now, does what I have said negate that this woman is a prophet?

No, it admitedly doesn't.

True, she could still have had a vision and what she has said maybe true. She could have convinced the leadership of the Arizona conference....Despite Carter's doubious reputation, she could has stilled had those visions...Then again, maybe she didn't.

Regardless, in my mind, she definately has a few hurdles to jump before I will take what she says as gospel .....

February 9, 2005

I am amazed, Brother Neil, that you are so quick to criticise your brothers in Christ that are laboring for lost souls. My goodness, it really does astonish me. I have a little ministry in Mexico and when the Lord takes me to heaven I may have a few stars on my crown. I have nothing but respect and admiration for couragous evangelsists like Mark Finely, John Carter, Doug Batchlor, Danny Shelton, Joe Crews and HMS Richards. These are the faith giants that have reached thousands. I even respect Pastor Jan Marcussen although I disagree with his approach on many things.

Now Soo could be lying. In fact she could have even been pretending not to know English. However if things are as they appear to be she is not lying. She comes from a poverty-striken communist country and didn't know English when she came to America. She had vacationed to Austraila but stayed with relatives while there. It is unlikely that she ever heard of the great English-speaking, Seventh-day Adventist evangelists in communist Laos. (Many Adventists here don't even know some of the names on that list) And what is lacking most if she is a fraud is motive. She has asked for nothing and is now laboring in poverty-stricken Laos in a medical ministry.

It is frightening to think that God could have sent an angel to speak to someone today with a message for us. Yet if we examine the message we find it doesn't contradict any previous truth given. So what reason do we really have to be skeptical?

I was unaware that Soo was featured on the Carter Report. I thought she only briefly met him as he was leaving the country and didn't have time to spend with her. However it is curious that of the five names the angel gave her it was only John Carter that was to expalin to her Revelation, Matthew 24 and Leveticus 11.

God once again chooses a unusaul vessle to deliver a message - a Budhist nun with cancer from a communist, third-world country. It seems God is simply sending the gospel to Laos. It makes me think of the verse where Jesus says He could make the rocks cry out. The message she gave me was WAKE UP!!! I needed that message and I thought to myself last night, "What a merciful God to give me and others a wake-up call."

February 9, 2005

Ah the Aussies - which John Carter is. I am not particularly commenting on your opinion of him, Neil - I do have some skepticism when evangelists make widesweeping claims especially if it is in relation to scientific matters which they do not understand. And that is not a swipe at any one in particular, I have no idea if J Carter ever does that.

The other Aussie connection is Soo, I am not sure if she only vacationed in Sydney as a friend we visited on Saturday night was talking about her, and expecting her back in Sydney sometime. Apparently she is a member of the Cabramatta church, a few km from here. I do not know what my friend would have to gain by discussing her if she did not think Soo was genuine. The discussion was part of a general one on last day events and the presumed shortness of time left.

This is all second hand, I have no knowledge of whether Soo is genuine or not. But the message that we should be preparing for the end of all things applies whatever the source. And I can understand your concern that the church not be brought into disrepute by promoting a charlatan.

February 9, 2005

Quote:

If we rejected the person/words, are they still a prophet of God?

Exactly!!

[:"red"] "And I, if I be lifted up... , will draw all men unto me" [/] John 12:32 KJV

Lift Jesus up!!

February 9, 2005

Quote:

I do have some skepticism when evangelists make widesweeping claims especially if it is in relation to scientific matters which they do not understand. And that is not a swipe at any one in particular,

Exactly!. I am told that J. Carter does that and does so with abandon. It is a shame, IMHO, when our Adventist Evangelists do such things. And while I do not have first hand knowledge, I do have my pastor friend who does have first hand knowledge, and he says that it happens. I trust this man.

So, I don't even listen to Carter. As far as I am concern, a man who lies for Adventism will lie about anything if we approach his asking price.

Again, what I said doesn't negate that Soo may have a message for us...But, at least in my mind, since she is associated with Carter, she has some hurdles to jump thru before I will listen to her.

Interestingly enough, I have search thru Carter's website, but can find nothing regarding Soo or her testemony. Perhaps I can not find it. Some one want to give us Soo's testemony link on Carter's website?

Quote:

we should be preparing for the end of all things applies whatever the source.

Which make me wonder....What makes her testemony so special? Is it because she makes a prediction about something sensational is going to happen during the year 2005? So what? So do psychics. Is it because she is illerate, non-english like EGW was? If so, then a 'post-fall angel' sure know how to manipulate unaware/unknowing people from the back woods to fool even the most sophisticated city slicker over what the gift of prophecy truely is.

Well, you'all can discuss this some among yourselves. I will be gone for a day or two..

February 9, 2005

I checked with Amazing Facts to see the validity of this Soo. There secretary said Soo came to visit the Sacramento Central Church where Doug Batchelor Pastors. She shook hands with Doug Batchelor on the way out from Church and that was the extent of there meeting. Pastor Batchelor can not confirm her story because he really hasn't sat down and talked with her. The secretary also said Soo was staying wtih some people in Sacramento and the experiences were not positive. I also checked with Roger Coon who was supposed to help Soo with printing 9000 books in her native language. Roger Coon's wife said Roger has nothing to do with it. The latest is that Soo's visa expired and she is now back in her native country. Soo's story at best seems "suspicious" but one thing she said we all know is true Jesus is coming soon. We'll never ever ever stop preaching that as long as were on this earth.

February 9, 2005

Again, it has been some time since I looked into her, and the claims that are made for her. Here are my conclusions at that time:

a) The claims that Soo makes, may or may not be true. If they are true, she does not make any claims that would lead me to beleive that she is a prophet. If they are true I would simply be able to say that we see the graciousnes of God in doing all possible to bring a sincere person to a saving knowledge of Christ. It is that individual work for her that we see, not a message for others.

As I reviewed the claims that others have made for her, I came to believe that others have claimed more for her than she claims for herself. In some cases, not all, I became suspicious of the source of those claims.

c) I am strongly suspicious of the second (third) hand sources for the claims about the well-known SDA evangelists. I have not personally contacted them. But, I beleive that some would deny what others are saying about them.

d) Soo does teach some that is quite Biblical. It is simple and available to all. Why do we look to her for that ring of truth, and not the Bible? Why do humans often prefer the sensational?

February 9, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

On the original subject of this thread - I have just been to tea (supper) with a member of the Cabramatta SDA church here in Sydney. She started talking about this lady, the purported second prophetess, she knows her and told a story much the same as the original post. It certainly brings it closer to home.

Purported second prophetess? Is there a first prophetess, or are you simply referring to EGW as the first one?

February 9, 2005

Obviously EGW is the first and accepted prophetess. The "purported second prophetess" refers to the subject of this thread.

February 9, 2005

Brother Matthews, I think you present a well balanced prespective on Soo. If what she says is true, it seems to me that God is simply using her to bring the gospel message to Laos. I don't see her as a prophetess even if her claims are true.

In the interviews I watched, it seems like the interviewers were talking more than Soo was. It seemed like the interviewers were answering their own questions and I started to wonder why they even needed Soo to be present.

In one of the interviews, she said Mary Ann McNeilus was taking her around to meet some of these people. Sister McNeilus is well known in the area where I went to college. Someone could contact her quite easily. It also seemed that she said Mark Finely turned pale when he saw his name on the list of pastors to meet. That shouldn't be too hard to verify.

If Soo was indeed diagnosed with cancer in Austraila and found to be cancer-free upon arriving in the US, that is something that could be verified if someone wanted to look into it as well.

February 9, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

And while I do not have first hand knowledge, I do have my pastor friend who does have first hand knowledge

This isn't just for Brother Neil. The above quote is what is known as gossip and those repeating it are what the Bible calls talebears. I suspect each one of us is guilty of doing this from time to time - I know I am. And we should be ashamed of ourselves when we do it.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

a man who lies for Adventism will lie about anything if we approach his asking price.

This is an example of the tales growing taller on down the line. It is a serious thing to accuse a Christian brother of a such a great sin based purely on hearsay, especially when the Christian brother is an ordained servant of God.

I know there are pastors that are inclined to sensationalism. Many of us are, not just pastors. Yet I do not like infighting. "A house divided against itself is brought to desolation" I don't like listening to the "historic" Adventists criticize the "contemporary" Adventists or the contemporary criticize the historic. Has it ever occurred to anyone that there are different styles of worship and evangelism? Pastor John Carter has his style, Pastor Jan Marcussen has his style and Pastor Doug Batchlor has yet another style.

February 10, 2005

Quote:

This is an example of the tales growing taller on down the line.

Sorry to not include the context of this statement, but these words really strike to the heart of this thread.

The rumours about Soo being the "next prophet" of Sdaism abound on anti-adventist forums, that's why I asked about her here. I'm very glad I did. But I'm still not clear why we (SDA's) are being so hush hush about her if this woman was given a message for all of us to "get ready"?

There has been no mention of her except in the rumor mills. No mention in the Review, no mention in the pulpit. If we have no concrete statement of facts from our church leadership, all we can do is guess and speculate about her.

Quote:

I know there are pastors that are inclined to sensationalism. Many of us are, not just pastors. Yet I do not like infighting. "A house divided against itself is brought to desolation" I don't like listening to the "historic" Adventists criticize the "contemporary" Adventists or the contemporary criticize the historic. Has it ever occurred to anyone that there are different styles of worship and evangelism? Pastor John Carter has his style, Pastor Jan Marcussen has his style and Pastor Doug Batchlor has yet another style.

Well AMEN, Brother Shane.

February 10, 2005

Quote:

We'll never ever ever stop preaching that >>as long as were on this earth.<<

And it seems one of the more important things to remember, while this discussion about Soo is going on, for all practical purposes the time for getting ready for the coming of Jesus will have already past for multitudes.

None of us are guaranteed the next heartbeat. All the more reason to influence people to 'be ready', not just get ready. And that condition only exists in the lives of those who have accepted the cleansing blood of Jesus as their only reason for assurance of entrance into the kingdom of God, prophetess or no.

[:"red"] "Now it has come--the salvation and the power and the kingdom (the dominion, the reign) of our God, and the power (the sovereignty, the authority) of His Christ (the Messiah); for the accuser of our brethren, he who keeps bringing before our God charges against them day and night, has been cast out!

And they have overcome (conquered) him by means of the blood of the Lamb and by the utterance of their testimony, for they did not love and cling to life even when faced with death [holding their lives cheap till they had to die for their witnessing]. " [/] Rev 12:10,11

Lift Jesus up!!

February 10, 2005

Quote:

Let me explain where I am coming from, and then maybe you can see what I am getting at.

First a question-

Am I allowed to have a healthy dose of skepticism regarding the vision of this lady?

You are "allowed" to have as much skepticism about ANY claim ANYONE makes as is necessary to allow YOU to make a solid determination whether it merits your credence or not. Key word above is healthy. While I cannot define for you (or anyone else, hardly even myself!) where that line is drawn -- between a skepticism that is healthy and one that is too doubtful and too cynical -- I can assure you such a line exists. Again, only you can discern (with the Holy Spirit in your life) where it is drawn for YOU.

But yes, of course you are allowed to TEST the spirits, TEST the fruits, TEST the claims. The Bible makes this an imperative for us, that we be not deceived.

Just wanted to affirm that for you.

God Bless.

Nico

February 10, 2005

Quote:

I know there are pastors that are inclined to sensationalism. Many of us are, not just pastors. Yet I do not like infighting. "A house divided against itself is brought to desolation" I don't like listening to the "historic" Adventists criticize the "contemporary" Adventists or the contemporary criticize the historic. Has it ever occurred to anyone that there are different styles of worship and evangelism? Pastor John Carter has his style, Pastor Jan Marcussen has his style and Pastor Doug Batchlor has yet another style.

(a) amen to the SENTIMENT

( cautionary to the FACTS: these men may all be teaching slight differences in doctrine that can make or break an experience in Christ. One cup of water plus one infinitely small drop of poison still yields one cup of poison.

© sensationalism that results in exploitation of others is NEVER "all right". we CANNOT simply rest on laurels of our faith saying the end justifies the means when it comes to sharing Christ. the means often dictate the ends and they deserve our analysis and correction.

analysis and correction only constitutes "house divided" in a fascist dictatorship. I sure hope the SDA church never goes that route.

February 10, 2005

I have contacted the Ellen G. White Estate for any comment that they might make regarding Soo. Here is what they have said:

**************************************************************************

"Dear Pastor Matthews,

Thank you for contacting us. I've copied the White Estate's comment below. You may use it (in full) with our permission. I should also add that we have received no additional information concerning Soo since she supposedly left the States last year, nor has she ever made any contact

with our office.

God bless.

Tim Poirier

Vice-Director/Archivist

Ellen G. White Estate

12501 Old Columbia Pike

Silver Spring, Maryland 20904

Phone: 301 680-6540

FAX: 301 680-6559

Website: www.WhiteEstate.org

-----Original Message-----

The Ellen G. White Estate is aware of reports of Soophaphone (Soo) Sirivongsack's experiences, having first learned of them from other sources in October 2004. We do not feel that sufficient information has yet emerged to substantiate her claim that she has received communications from angels. The Bible counsels us, "Believe not every

spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1). We are also reminded of Ellen White's counsel:

"There will be those who will claim to have visions. When God gives you **clear evidence** that the vision is from Him, you may accept it, but do not accept it on any other evidence; for people are going to be led more and more astray in foreign countries and in America."-"The Review

and Herald," May 25, 1905, emphasis supplied. (Published in "Selected Messages," book 2, p. 72.)

For additional Ellen White counsels regarding the evaluation of prophetic claims, see "Selected Messages," book 2, pp. 63-100.

The Ellen G. White Estate, Inc.

November 18, 2004"

******************************************************************************

I would add several comments to the above:

a) I can accept that God might send an angel to an individual with a specific message. But, doing so would not make that person a prophet. And sending an individual message would not make that a message to everybody.

I see a disconnect between what Soos says and the claims that others make for her.

c) The claims made in regard to other promenent SDAs appear to fall short of what I would expect from them.

d) There are aspects of this whole story that raise other questions in my mind.

February 10, 2005

Quote:

You are "allowed" to have as much skepticism about ANY claim ANYONE makes as is necessary to allow YOU to make a solid determination whether it merits your credence or not. Key word above is healthy.

Thank you, Nico. I really appreciate being allowed to be skeptical.

I realize that being skeptical about relationships is a temporary condition of the human spirit. Sometimes that condition is a long time, sometimes it is not. But in the end, you have to make a decision either for or against the relationship.

If you decide for a relationship [that is, act positively for building the relationship], you become positive about it. If you decide against a relationship, you become cynical about it. IMHO, to be cynical about a realtionship is a dangerous condition as you the only excuses you are allowing are negitive one. If you are cynical about God's relationship with you, IMO you are blastpheming against God. There is little hope for you as you are always negitive about the relationship with God. Thus, you will hear statements like "Oh, Christianity is a crutch."

Nico, I am glad that you reminded us the biblical injunction to "test the Spirits"...Even the bible allows a Christian to be skeptical about a person. The bible allows for that time period for skeptism to work itself out.

IMO, before I will seek out her testemony and listen to her, Soo has come thru, what I term as adverse adventist channels. If Soo had gone to the VOP, or to the Review or to a conference and established herself there FIRST, I might have listened to her...As it is, she went to someone who I deem to be a poor christian at best. [Don't tell me that you all have not made those type of judgements before. I am justa a bit more honest and vocal, when appropriate, in my assement.]

Have I become cynical about Soo? No, I am still skeptical about her. I have not made any decision regarding her. I have said that she now has MORE HURDLES to overcome, but as to making the decisison that she is a prophet or a woman that has had a vision, no...I am still skeptical.

I just wish that some people would stop putting words in my mouth and taking my words out of context to make them say things that I never intended to say. To me, that is a form or lying about someone, or as the KJV refers to it, "bearing false witness"...I tend to think that person has become cynical about the relationship and that person is not worth my time. I do value my time. And I do have to make some choices as to who and what I will respond to. I would like to see better fruits from my efforts. So maybe I will be a bit more selective in what I respond to

Thanks again, Nico for responding to this. It has allowed me to express my opinion, and show where/what I was thinking. I hope I am clear that I am still skeptical about Soo, having not made any decisions about her, and have explained why I think that she has many hurdles to jump thru....

February 11, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If Soo had gone to the VOP, or to the Review or to a conference and established herself there FIRST, I might have listened to her...

She came to America not speaking English or knowing anyting about the Adventist church. She went to the Seventh-day Baptist church by mistake. Did you expect her to fly right into Silver Springs?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

I have said that she now has MORE HURDLES to overcome

This is what most people think and why she doesn't like to talk about her experience.

I agree with Brother Matthews, even if what she says is true, it doesn't make her a prophet. If it is true, it simply appears that God called her to minister to those in Laos. In fact, didn't the angel say once she was baptised that his mission was finished?

February 11, 2005

Brother Matthews,

I have serious questions about the White Estate. Some of their defenses of EG White's questionable writings have been pretty odd.

I wouldn't expect them to jump on the Soo bandwagon. However the angel reportably gave Soo the Ellen White estates phone number and of that they made no mention. Did they meet with her?

February 11, 2005

I beleive that their response states that they have had no individual contact with her.

Sign In

SDA's Have A New Prophet.

Recommended Posts

LifeHiscost

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

LifeHiscost

Dr. Shane

Dr. Shane

Amelia

Neil D

Dr. Shane

Nan

LifeHiscost

Neil D

vixie

Gregory Matthews

Daryl

Nan

Dr. Shane

Dr. Shane

Rosie

LifeHiscost

Nicodema

Nicodema

Gregory Matthews

Neil D

Dr. Shane

Dr. Shane

Gregory Matthews

Join the conversation

Browse

Activity