Disfellowshipped

[John317]

"As many as I love I rebuke and chasten"

Over the years the church has made mistakes in disciplining members but that doesn't mean that we should never discipline we just need to learn how to do it better.

Yes, I agree. I think if a person knows that the people in the church and the pastor love him/her, and that they are not using the "discipline" for any other reason except Christian love, etc., the person is much more likely to do the right thing.

It's possible that many people resist because they feel like they're being told what to do by people who don't know them and don't care about them.

[John317]

Care to tell us who is not sinning?

In the context of disfellowshipping, the fact that people are sinful or sinning is not the issue. The church does not disfellowship people simply because they sin. Disfellowshipping is something that's done when people deliberately, willfully, stubbornly practice open sin. They are unrepentant and make no effort to change. There's a clear difference between that and people who want to obey God and demonstrate by their lives that they are making a sincere effort to live a Christian life.

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Care to tell us who obeys God law...always?

Same answer as above applies.

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WE can not keep the law, we can not stop the sinning!!!

It's true that none of us can stop sinning by our own efforts, apart from the Holy Spirit.

But I am wondering if you mean that we cannot stop any sin or whether you are saying we cannot cease all sin altogether.

I hope you are not saying that God doesn't have the power to help us stop committing a particular sin. If that is true, then Romans 6: 1, 15 would make no sense. It says we don't have to go on sinning. We have a choice. The gospel provides us with a choice. That is one reason it is good news.

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Show me someone who does not need Christs death.

For sure every human being needs Christ's death. But needing Christ's death does not mean people He saves MUST go on practicing the same sins year in and year out. God makes a way of escape for us. He provides power to live differently and to be happy living for God. I know personally that He does this. It is not a theory but as real as anything can be real.

[John317]

If we say that we are not choosing sin, we lie to ourselves.

Does the Bible teach this-- that all believers choose sin? Where does this idea come from?

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Paul recognized that we can not do what we want to do, sin is a part of us and we need Christ.

Is this the same Paul who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to say that keeping God's commandments is what really matters? Is this the same Paul who wrote Romans 6: 1, 15?

You may be referring to Romans 7. But if you study Romans 7 thoroughly, you will see that there is no mention of the Holy Spirit in Paul's description of "the man of Romans 7." Why? Because the man of Romans 7 is not yet surrendered to Christ and is not walking in the Spirit but in the flesh.

Compare Romans 7 with Romans 6 and 8. Romans 7 is not describing the person who is indwelt and led by the Holy Spirit. It is describing a man who is attempting to obey God's law on his own human strength. But of course that is an utter impossibility.

Please compare Romans 7 with Galatians 2: 20, 21 and 5: 22-25.

Ask yourself what is the kind of life that God intends believers to live-- is it like the life of the man of Romans 7 who cannot do right but feels compelled to practice sin, or does God plan for us to have the experience of liberty described in Romans 8 and Gal. 2: 20, 21?

[John317]

Why worry about about sinning, is not the death of Christ enough for you?

Are you getting your beliefs about sin from the Bible?

Wasn't it our sins that killed Christ? If we truly value Christ, then, we won't want to sin, will we? Not if we realize how our sins hurt Christ and how they hurt the Father. If you knew that the next time you sinned, your mother or daughter would have to die, wouldn't you be worried about sin? If our mother's dying because of our sins would make us more concerned about sin, what about Jesus? Who do we love more-- our mothers or Jesus?

What was Jesus' attitude toward sin and what attitude did He encourage people to have? Didn't he say such things as "Go and do not keep practicing sin"?

Didn't Jesus say, "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It would be better that one of your members perish than for your whole body to be cast into hell"?

That sounds like we have a choice whether to sin or not, and it sounds like God expects us to "worry about sinning," doesn't it?

[John317]

I would suggest everyone get over their obsession with sin and start focusing on the Good news of salvation, being free is an amazing state of mind.

Being free from what?

Jesus said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin."

Read John 8: 32-36 and the whole of Romans 6.

Jesus makes us free from the slavery of sin. We don't have to sin. Christ frees us so that we become slaves of righteousness and of God. 1 John 3: 1-10.

As I was once a slave of Satan and gave my body to his service, now I am a slave of God and give my body to serve Him. This happens because of God's power, not mine. I place my will under God's will every moment, and He becomes my strength. Without Him I would surely be either dead now or in prison.

[John317]

Accept the salvation of Christ and get on with your life, its good news!

I completely agree with the words, but in view of what you said in your previous lines, I have to tell you that the good news is that Christ gives us liberty so that we are free from the slavery of sin and are able to become what God wants us to be-- which is the righteousness of God in Christ. That means we are in the process of washing our robes in the blood of the Lamb and putting on the white linen, the good deeds that God created us to do. Eph. 2: 8-10.

[Guest]

Amen

[LifeHiscost]

I am a heathen.

There are a number of definitions for the word heathen. Does this one describe you?

"An unconverted member of a nation or people that does not acknowledge the God of the (Holy) bible." Websters Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary___Parenthesis mine LHC

If it does, it doesn't make this Word any less true.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. "John 3:16,17 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

I wasn't bitter. I knew what I was doing was not exceptable to the church.

Not to mention that it was unacceptable to Jesus as well. Nothing personal, Richard.

"...deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."1 Corinthians 5:5 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

It is not about being deserving. It is about being willing.

And Jesus is.

"Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”

Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” "

Mark 9:23-25 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

we are ALL heathens.

Not according to the bible or Webster's Dictionary. See a previous post of mine.

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

Administering church discipline in one of the most sobering parts of what I do as a Pastor. I don't like it but it's necessary. It's Biblical and believe it or not, it is part of the work of salvation.

"As many as I love I rebuke and chasten"

Over the years the church has made mistakes in disciplining members but that doesn't mean that we should never discipline we just need to learn how to do it better.

[LifeHiscost]

That sounds like we have a choice whether to sin or not, and it sounds like God expects us to "worry about sinning," doesn't it?

"For it is impossible [to restore and bring again to repentance] those who have been once for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit,

And have felt how good the Word of God is and the mighty powers of the age and world to come,

If they then deviate from the faith and turn away from their allegiance--[it is impossible] to bring them back to repentance, for (because, while, as long as) they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh [as far as they are concerned] and are holding [Him] up to contempt and shame and public disgrace.

For the soil which has drunk the rain that repeatedly falls upon it and produces vegetation useful to those for whose benefit it is cultivated partakes of a blessing from God.

But if [that same soil] persistently bears thorns and thistles, it is considered worthless and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned." Hebrews 6:4-8 AMP

Where would be our love for God, knowing we were crucifying Christ afresh and only giving thought to our being saved?

Blessings!

[Stan]

A reflection - and not responding to any particular post or person.

I don't think Church Membership has much value if it did not cost you anything to get it.

[LifeHiscost]

A reflection - and not responding to any particular post or person.

I don't think Church Membership has much value if it did not cost you anything to get it.

"Then the king said to Araunah, “No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing.” So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver."2 Samuel 24:24 NKJV

"Then King David said to Ornan, “No, but I will surely buy it for the full price, for I will not take what is yours for the LORD, nor offer burnt offerings with that which costs me nothing.”

"1 Chronicles 21:24 NKJV

Seems like others would agree with you.

Blessings!

[Tom Wetmore]

I have heard these couples claim that "in the eyes of God" they are married. Which would also mean "in the eyes of God" they are defrauding the government. They are not legally married and thus they are not illegally defrauding the government. They can't have their cake and eat it too. They either admit they are sinning against God or admit they are stealing from Social Security. Certainly this group of people needs some moral guidance from the church.

By your logic linking civil and moral concepts of marriage God would have to recognize legalized gay marriage. God doesn't depend on the governments rules or abide by them. He makes his own rules and really isn't concerned with what the government rules are regarding marriage.

There is no Biblical evidence to support the idea that God requires a marriage ceremony, church or civil, or for the government to legalize a relationship for them to be married "in the eyes of God". As I have said before, God considers having sex as being married. God recognizes a couple's personal commitment made to each other and seals it when they "become one" by "leaving and cleaving". "In the eyes of God" and "becoming one" are a polite ways of saying that they have physically joined their bodies by having sex. A man and a woman living together without ever having had sex are not married "in the eyes of God."

On the current topic, should the church disfellowship a couple living together in a jurisdiction where common law marriage is recognized? What is common law marriage but simple recognizing that marriage "in the eyes of God" is indeed all it takes.

Tom

[GreatLakesGramma]

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:2-10.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 1 John 5:1-4

Apparently, John must not have known what he was talking about. This must be one of the parts of the Bible that isn't inspired. I guess we'll have to remove the book of 1 John from the Bible.

[Woody]

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There's something about B&W that's incredibly powerful.

Only when mixed. Neither all black nor all white is very appealing nor powerful.

[GreatLakesGramma]

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father's wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "PUT AWAY FROM YOURSELVES THE EVIL PERSON." 1 Corinthians 5:1-13

Oops! Here's another uninspired passage we need to remove from the Bible!

[Woody]

Care to tell us who is not sinning?

Care to tell us who obeys God law...always?

WE can not keep the law, we can not stop the sinning!!!

Show me someone who does not need Christs death.

If we say that we are not choosing sin, we lie to ourselves.

Paul recognized that we can not do what we want to do, sin is a part of us and we need Christ.

Why worry about about sinning, is not the death of Christ enough for you?

I would suggest everyone get over their obsession with sin and start focusing on the Good news of salvation, being free is an amazing state of mind.

Accept the salvation of Christ and get on with your life, its good news!

I will let you in on a secret.......SATAN loves our obsession with sin and our constant efforts to ferret it out of our lives and others. He controls us when our eyes are not focused on Christ.

Excellent Excellent Excellent

Our focus like you said ... needs to be on Jesus not sins.

[Woody]

A reflection - and not responding to any particular post or person.

I don't think Church Membership has much value if it did not cost you anything to get it.

The church is not a country club.

The church and it's membership is greatly DEvalued to me knowing that it sits in judgment of my fellow Christians and kicks out those it deems unworthy. I am ashamed.

[Woody]

The original "Remnant (Noah) was corrupt from the start. Look at ancient Israel. For more than a thousand years it remained God's remnant, despite being guilty of every sin under the sun. The light that we posses give us remnant status not any holiness. See "The Remnant" by Clifford Goldstein. A great book on the subect.

[Woody]

However ... I do realize that "a lie will go around the world while truth is putting on his boots" Ellen White in 1T 463

[Gerr]

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Think what this great, talented man could have done for God if he had accepted Christ and become a Seventh-day Adventist. Unfortunately his grandmother and aunt didn't know how to deal with him, and they tended to be legalistic in their approach to spiritual things.

Reflect a moment about the social/political/spiritual climate of the times. Become a member of a church that taught the brotherhood of mankind but treated you as a third class citizen?

[Woody]

The way he was treated by the Seventh day Adventists he had contact with ... not way he was going to become one. Legalism is a cancer.