Disfellowshipped

[Stan]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

A reflection - and not responding to any particular post or person.

I don't think Church Membership has much value if it did not cost you anything to get it.

The church is not a country club.

The church and it's membership is greatly DEvalued to me knowing that it sits in judgment of my fellow Christians and kicks out those it deems unworthy. I am ashamed.

For some it cost family, friends, inheritance and more.

[olger]

All sin and fall short of the glory of God. In the eyes of the law ... we are ALL heathens.

How ludicrous. What you are saying is we are all unbelievers.

Matthew 18:17: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican."

rejoice in the Lord always,

G

[Woody]

Quote:

For some it cost family, friends, inheritance and more.

That is the nature of membership. When you put yourself up as being higher or more holy than another ... it does require a cost. But, this is the cost of having membership. And it is not needed. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. If we viewed our family, friends and members as equals ... the cost would not be so great.

[olger]

And he has saved me despite my future sins. For I will sin till the day I die. But because I am In Him and seek His forgiveness ... I AM SAVED.

The celebration of iniquity IS a heathen concept, so maybe...

regards,

G

[Woody]

Quote:

What you are saying is we are all unbelievers.

If you truly believed ... you would not sin. So yes ... we are all unbelievers. There is no excuse for sin as EGW puts it. If we believed as we should ... there would be no sin in our lives. But, ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. Praise God for His mercy , love and forgiveness. Even unto me ... a sinner.

[olger]

Administering church discipline in one of the most sobering parts of what I do as a Pastor. I don't like it but it's necessary. It's Biblical and believe it or not, it is part of the work of salvation.

"As many as I love I rebuke and chasten"

Over the years the church has made mistakes in disciplining members but that doesn't mean that we should never discipline we just need to learn how to do it better.

Appreciate this reasoned post, Laz.

courage,

G

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

And he has saved me despite my future sins. For I will sin till the day I die. But because I am In Him and seek His forgiveness ... I AM SAVED.

The celebration of iniquity IS a heathen concept, so maybe...

regards,

G

Yes, I am a heathen saved by Grace.

[Stan]

Quote:

For some it cost family, friends, inheritance and more.

That is the nature of membership. When you put yourself up as being higher or more holy than another ... it does require a cost. But, this is the cost of having membership. And it is not needed. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. If we viewed our family, friends and members as equals ... the cost would not be so great.

That was rather judgemental of you, not all things are the easy street you have walked on.

I suspect you inherited adventism, would that be correct?

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

A reflection - and not responding to any particular post or person.

I don't think Church Membership has much value if it did not cost you anything to get it.

The church is not a country club.

The church and it's membership is greatly DEvalued to me knowing that it sits in judgment of my fellow Christians and kicks out those it deems unworthy. I am ashamed.

Yeah, I wouldn't cry if I was disfellowshiped. I go to church to fellowship with brothers and sisters. I do not care if my name is on some church membership book...That book isn't going to save me....

[Woody]

Quote:

That was rather judgemental of you

Perhaps you don't understand. It's the nature of membership. Membership requires that you set yourself up above others. You sit in judgment of your fellow members. Of course this would cause problems with those on the outside looking in. Why would anyone respect or want to become a member when this is the way members are treated?

So ... naturally "For some it cost family, friends, inheritance and more." This is the cost of having membership as a church. It's not necessary though.

BTW ... I don't really feel this topic is appropriate for Townhall. It should have been placed under What Seventh day Adventist believe ... IMHO

[Gail]

I'm having trouble with the assumption that two (especially elderly) people living together are having sex and thereby in sin. What if that is not the case, that they are only roommates?

When I am old I think I would like to live in a place with other people, as students do.

[Tom Wetmore]

Beloved, now we are children of God... 1 John 3:2-10.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1-4

Apparently, John must not have known what he was talking about. This must be one of the parts of the Bible that isn't inspired. I guess we'll have to remove the book of 1 John from the Bible.

Catherine,

I am not clear why you sarcastically directed your comment at me. I was not addressing inspiration and the verses you quote do not address the issue of marriage that I was speaking to.

Tom

[Tom Wetmore]

I'm having trouble with the assumption that two... elderly people...are having sex...

I really shouldn't speed read since I miss essential words... :smilewink:

But I thought this quick glance at you post might reflect a common but very much a mistaken assumption...

[GreatLakesGramma]

What made you think my post was directed at you if it has nothing to do with anything you said? The idea that we will continue to choose to sin after we have accepted Jesus as our Savior has been put forth repeatedly in this thread.

[Woody]

GLG ... I think that if you look back at your post ... you were responding to Tom's post. But then I too was confused as to what you were trying to prove.

[Dr. Shane]

A reflection - and not responding to any particular post or person.

I don't think Church Membership has much value if it did not cost you anything to get it.

That reminds me of something that is said in AA quite often. Often times we say "I paid a high price to sit in this chair". It is reference to all the pain liquor caused us and all the money we foolishly spent on booze and the lifestyle that went with it.

[Dr. Shane]

By your logic linking civil and moral concepts of marriage God would have to recognize legalized gay marriage.

[Dr. Shane]

I'm having trouble with the assumption that two (especially elderly) people living together are having sex and thereby in sin. What if that is not the case, that they are only roommates?

I don't think we are talking about assumptions. We are talking about people who openly state that they would get married but don't because they would lose Social Security money.

It is also not safe to assume that elderly people are not sexually active. The CDC reports a great concern about STDs among the elderly. AIDS is a big problem among the elderly.

[Gail]

Quote:

It is also not safe to assume that elderly people are not sexually active. The CDC reports a great concern about STDs among the elderly. AIDS is a big problem among the elderly.

Is it safe to assume anything about anyone? How would you like it if someone assumed that about you and it wasn't the case, especially if it lead them to criticise you?

[Dr. Shane]

I was speaking generally. Senior citizens are sexually active. We know that because they come into hospitals and clinics with STDs. That doesn't mean every senior citizen is sexually active. Teenagers get STDs too but not all teenagers are sexually active.

[Guest]

BTW ... I don't really feel this topic is appropriate for Townhall. It should have been placed under What Seventh day Adventist believe ... IMHO

I didn't know you had a humble opinion.

[GreatLakesGramma]

GLG ... I think that if you look back at your post ... you were responding to Tom's post. But then I too was confused as to what you were trying to prove.

I was not replying to Tom's post. I was replying to the thread itself. If you go directly to the quick reply box at the bottom of the thread, it will always add "re:[last poster before you replied]" to the bar at the top of your post. People shouldn't assume that someone is replying to them if what the poster says has nothing to do with anything they said, especially when it does have something to do with other ideas that are predominant throughout the thread.

[Kevin H]

This is one of the ugly matters.

I do know from time to time it needs to happen, and this is not about that.

To often I have heard stories of what I consider spiritual abuse, and I do understand that membership is an honour, not a right. BUT why some folks are told how unworthy they are, scum etc etc is not needed. We are to treat them like heathens, and how do we do that? Same as we would others, by reaching out.

I am not talking about folk who harm others, like sexual pedophiles etc, who we MUST block, but others.

Surely folks can have their membership removed without alienating them forever.

I'm sad to hear this. When I was at AUC, and I believe Andrews, but we were taught with disfellowshiping to emphessise that they are only doing things that affect their membership with the Seventh-day Adventist church and not necessarly their relationship with Jesus, to encourage them to hold on to Jesus and to offer to help them with either worshiping with us as a non-member or to help them find a denomination where they may feel more comfortable. I like what we were taugh to do and sad to hear that the other types of things are being done.

[Gail]

I like that approach, Kevin! Thanks for sharing that :)

[olger]

Quote:

What you are saying is we are all unbelievers.

If you truly believed ... you would not sin. So yes ... we are all unbelievers. There is no excuse for sin as EGW puts it. If we believed as we should ... there would be no sin in our lives. But, ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. Praise God for His mercy , love and forgiveness. Even unto me ... a sinner.

Interjecting your experience into the text in Matthew 18:17 fails utterly to acknowledge that Jesus drew a line of distinction between a heathen and the church. You are one or the other.

One or the other,

oG