Victory over sin... One day in the future...

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

... first the blade, then the ear, and then the full corn of Christ's character in the ear when probation closes but the growth is not in leaving off sin a little at a time. ....we may have complete victory over sin now.

sky

So, if Jesus had just a little sin early on and then as He grew He produced less sin, then that would have fulfilled the law?

Jesus never sinned from the time He was a baby, where is that true for any of us?

Jesus was/is God and man. where is that true for any of us?

somehow Jesus knew from infancy what sin is. where is that true for any of us? even if we have been-sincerely- on this walk for some time?

can any of us say that we fully know what all sin is, and in all honesty say that, in Gods sight, we are not committing some sin that we do not regard as a sin?

[John317]

all of us practice sin whether we are aware of it or not, unless you are saying you know exactly what all sin is,...

1 John 3: 6-7 says plainly that those who have God's seed [nature] in them do not practice sin.

What is practicing sin? It is like practicing a musical instrument or practicing medicine. It refers to the deliberate planning and continual doing of something so that one becomes proficient at it. The Bible says believers are to repent and confess their sins and overcome them, not continually do them.

"Practicing sin" does not refer to sins we are not even conscious of. It has reference to known sins. One can't practice something one has no awareness of.

How do we know this is true? Because 1 John 3: 7 says the righteous "practice righteousness." One cannot practice sin AND righteousness at the same time. One cannot both be practicing sin AND obeying the commandments. 1 John 2: 4.

Notice it does not say believers never sin, but they do not practice sin. That is, they do not go on deliberately sinning. What do they do instead? They repent and confess their sins [i.e., sins they are conscious of and which the Holy Spirit convicts them of], are forgiven and cleansed of them, and then continually walk [practicing His way of life] as Christ walked. 1 John 1: 6; cf. Romans 6 and 8.

[skyblue888]

Amen John and I do believe that sometimes they do sin willfully but that does not mean that they cannot be forgiven!

Right?

sky

[John317]

Yes, I agree. The thing is to never give up and keep going to Christ and sincerely repenting and confessing and wanting Him in the life. NEVER STOP. Cling to His merits. :-)

[skyblue888]

"Jesus knows the circumstances of every soul. The greater the sinner's guilt, the more he needs the Saviour. His heart of divine love and sympathy is drawn out most of all for the one who is the most hopelessly entangled in the snares of the enemy. With His own blood He has signed the emancipation papers of the race.

Jesus does not desire those who have been purchased at such a cost to become the sport of the enemy's temptations. He does not desire us to be overcome and perish. He who curbed the lions in their den, and walked with His faithful witnesses amid the fiery flames, is just as ready to work in our behalf to subdue every evil in our nature. Today He is standing at the altar of mercy, presenting before God the prayers of those who desire His help. He turns no weeping, contrite one away. Freely will He pardon all who come to Him for forgiveness and restoration. He does not tell to any all that He might reveal, but He bids every trembling soul take courage. Whosoever will, may take hold of God's strength, and make peace with Him, and He will make peace.

The souls that turn to Him for refuge, Jesus lifts above the accusing and the strife of tongues. No man or evil angel can impeach these souls. Christ unites them to His own divine-human nature. They stand besides the great Sin Bearer in the light proceeding from the throne of God. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from all sin." 1 John 1:7.

sky

[teresaq]

The secret in overcoming the known sins is overcoming the unknown ones.

im a tad lost here. i would think it would be the other way around.

[skyblue888]

Yes, I agree. The thing is to never give up and keep going to Christ and sincerely repenting and confessing and wanting Him in the life. NEVER STOP. Cling to His merits. :-)

Amen! I can certainly identify with what you just stated here.

God bless!

He who has been forgiven much loves much!

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

The secret in overcoming the known sins is overcoming the unknown ones.

im a tad lost here. i would think it would be the other way around.

I agree, that was my first thought when i read that!

sky

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Robert

So, if Jesus had just a little sin early on and then as He grew He produced less sin, then that would have fulfilled the law?

[/quote']Jesus never sinned from the time He was a baby, where is that true for any of us?

Jesus was/is God and man. where is that true for any of us?

somehow Jesus knew from infancy what sin is. where is that true for any of us? even if we have been-sincerely- on this walk for some time?

can any of us say that we fully know what all sin is, and in all honesty say that, in Gods sight, we are not committing some sin that we do not regard as a sin?

I suggest you read the chapter "As A Child," from Desire of Ages.

On page 71, we read:

"The life of Jesus was a life in harmony with God. While He was a child, He thought and spoke as a child; but no trace of sin marred the image of God within Him. Yet He was not exempt from temptation. The inhabitants of Nazareth were proverbial for their wickedness. The low estimate in which they were generally held is shown by Nathanael's question, "Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?" John 1:46. Jesus was placed where His character would be tested. It was necessary for Him to be constantly on guard in order to preserve His purity. He was subject to all the conflicts which we have to meet, that He might be an example to us in childhood, youth, and manhood.

Satan was unwearied in his efforts to overcome the Child of Nazareth. From His earliest years Jesus was guarded by heavenly angels, yet His life was one long struggle against the powers of darkness. That there should be upon the earth one life free from the defilement of evil was an offense and a perplexity to the prince of darkness. He left no means untried to ensnare Jesus. No child of humanity will ever be called to live a holy life amid so fierce a conflict with temptation as was our Saviour."

sky

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

all of us practice sin whether we are aware of it or not, unless you are saying you know exactly what all sin is,...

"Practicing sin" does not refer to sins we are not even conscious of. ... One can't practice something one has no awareness of....

how do you understand that in reality and not theory?

if a person is practicing a particular sin, but believes it is not a sin, how does it figure that s/he is not practicing sin even tho s/he is not aware of it?

im going to use examples that happen on these boards for clarification. a person habitually misreads others posts for whatever reason, thereby consistently misrepresenting those particular posters, also known as slander and "bearing false witness against (thy) fellowman".

now the person doing this sin honestly does not see it (i will start coming from that perspective, that it is not conscious and willfully sinning) but nevertheless is habitually doing it, which would be practicing sin albeit unaware.

or what about the abrasive personality who doesnt see, or care, how he makes others feel with his/her abrasiveness because he/she honestly does not believe it is a sin to behave so?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

im a tad lost here. i would think it would be the other way around.

I agree' date=' that was my first thought when i read that! [/quote']

hopefully s/he will clear it up for us soon. lol

[Robert]

Christ's righteousness is both imputed and imparted to us.

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

Jesus never sinned from the time He was a baby, where is that true for any of us?

Jesus was/is God and man. where is that true for any of us?

somehow Jesus knew from infancy what sin is. where is that true for any of us? even if we have been-sincerely- on this walk for some time?

can any of us say that we fully know what all sin is, and in all honesty say that, in Gods sight, we are not committing some sin that we do not regard as a sin? [/quote']

I suggest you read the chapter "As A Child," from Desire of Ages.

On page 71, we read:

"The life of Jesus was a life in harmony with God. While He was a child, He thought and spoke as a child; but no trace of sin marred the image of God within Him. Yet He was not exempt from temptation. The inhabitants of Nazareth were proverbial for their wickedness. The low estimate in which they were generally held is shown by Nathanael's question, "Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth?" John 1:46. Jesus was placed where His character would be tested. It was necessary for Him to be constantly on guard in order to preserve His purity. He was subject to all the conflicts which we have to meet, that He might be an example to us in childhood, youth, and manhood.

...

i have read it many times, thank you. :-)

how do you see a baby having the comprehension to see Jesus as an Example in order to copy that Example?

if you consider the questions i asked how would you answer them?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: John317

Christ's righteousness is both imputed and imparted to us.

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

hey, i really like the way you stated that!!

do you depend on the HS for your answers? it sure seems so.

[Robert]

do you depend on the HS for your answers? it sure seems so.

That is my aim....

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: John317

Christ's righteousness is both imputed and imparted to us.

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

And if what is imputed is not experienced, it was never accepted nor imputed in the first place.

[Gerr]

The secret in overcoming the known sins is overcoming the unknown ones.

And how can anyone deal/overcome something they have no knowledge of?

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

[color:blue]

And if what is imputed is not experienced' date=' it was never accepted nor imputed in the first place. [/quote']

In other words what if Christ's imparted righteousness isn't experience? Well, take a look at the disciples....They were a bunch of self-centered, egocentric guys trying to outdo the others...they would fight at the drop of hat, etc...etc. Were they saved? Yes! Why? They accepted Christ....Where was the fruit? It really didn't show up until after the cross....Then you saw a change....So we must be careful to judge....In fact we shouldn't judge...like to say "I know you are lost", etc....

For example I think you are mixed up in a subtle form of legalism....I think it is dangerous...I think it can cause you to be lost, but I can't say you are lost. If I did I must think that I am God.....

So we can't always say if there's no evidence of Christ's imparted righteousness folks are lost.....You can say the longer we feed the flesh the more the probability of rejecting Christ. Why? Because the flesh (human nature) is anti-Christ.....It hates His agape love. Why? It prefers self-love...you know, me, me, me.....So the two are opposed. If you "live for the flesh" purposely eventually the flesh will get you to reject Christ - like Judas.

Rob

[Woody]

Quote:

all of us practice sin whether we are aware of it or not

Excellent point Teresa. We all do practice sin. We practice it over and over and over again. Some of us actually get quite good at it with all of our practice. I know I do.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: John317

Christ's righteousness is both imputed and imparted to us.

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

Excellent. I like that.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Robert

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

hey' date=' i really like the way you stated that!!

do you depend on the HS for your answers? it sure seems so. [/quote']

Yes Indeed. Amen.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

all of us practice sin whether we are aware of it or not, unless you are saying you know exactly what all sin is,...

1 John 3: 6-7 says plainly that those who have God's seed [nature] in them do not practice sin.

What is practicing sin? It is like practicing a musical instrument or practicing medicine. It refers to the deliberate planning and continual doing of something so that one becomes proficient at it. The Bible says believers are to repent and confess their sins and overcome them, not continually do them.

"Practicing sin" does not refer to sins we are not even conscious of. It has reference to known sins. One can't practice something one has no awareness of.

How do we know this is true? Because 1 John 3: 7 says the righteous "practice righteousness." One cannot practice sin AND righteousness at the same time. One cannot both be practicing sin AND obeying the commandments. 1 John 2: 4.

Notice it does not say believers never sin, but they do not practice sin. That is, they do not go on deliberately sinning. What do they do instead? They repent and confess their sins [i.e., sins they are conscious of and which the Holy Spirit convicts them of], are forgiven and cleansed of them, and then continually walk [practicing His way of life] as Christ walked. 1 John 1: 6; cf. Romans 6 and 8.

Tell me if I understand ... but it would seem that if YOU practice sin .... you are commiting the unpardonable sin.

For me ... I practice sin ... but I have an advocate with the Father. I come to Jesus ... repent ... and am forgiven.

And we worship the same God?

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

And if what is imputed is not experienced' date=' it was never accepted nor imputed in the first place. [/quote']

In other words what if Christ's imparted righteousness isn't experience? Well, take a look at the disciples....They were a bunch of self-centered, egocentric guys trying to outdo the others...they would fight at the drop of hat, etc...etc. Were they saved? Yes! Why? They accepted Christ....Where was the fruit? It really didn't show up until after the cross....Then you saw a change....So we must be careful to judge....In fact we shouldn't judge...like to say "I know you are lost", etc....

Did they remain self-centered? Never experienced what was imputed to them? Let's see. James became so unselfish he was the first to give up his most treasured earthly possession - his life for Christ. Peter? Gave up the same - crucified upside down! The son of thunder? He talks more about love than anyone else!

Quote:

For example I think you are mixed up in a subtle form of legalism....I think it is dangerous...I think it can cause you to be lost, but I can't say you are lost. If I did I must think that I am God.....

Legalism to work out what God works in? "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure", Phil 2:12-13 ESV

Quote:

So we can't always say if there's no evidence of Christ's imparted righteousness folks are lost.....

I agree. That's not our call. That determination is God's. However He has given some criteria by which we can form our own opinions.

He said that by their fruits we shall know. That the one who says, "I know Him" but is disobedient is a liar. That those who continue to practice unrighteousness are not His children.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: Robert

What saves is imputed....What is experienced is imparted.....

And if what is imputed is not experienced' date=' it was never accepted nor imputed in the first place.

[/quote']

It is neither the imputed or imparted righteousness of Christ that saves us but the merits of His sacrifice.

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ." T.M.97.

Righteousness is right doing. It is God's right doing in and through us but this is not what saves us. "Works will never save us. It is the merit of Christ that will avail with God." F.W.48.

God will reward us for the works that His grace enabled us to do but these works is not what saves us. We are accepted only through the merits of Jesus Christ.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

"Works will never save us.

The curse of the Law must be answered. And it is answered only through the works of Christ.

It is HIS works that save us.