Victory over sin... One day in the future...

[Woody]

2.) Those who are judged by the works of Jesus because they are covered by HIS Robe. They are found innocent of the curse of the Law because the Law was fulfilled perfectly by the life of Jesus Christ. Their Substitute.

But they must be also keeping the commandments before this.

Otherwise known as legalism. :)

[Woody]

"In the judgment ... my obedience will NOT be judged though. For I will be wearing the Robe of HIS righteousness. And so my keeping or not keeping of the commandments will NOT be seen. Only the keeping of the commandments by Jesus on this earth 2,000 years ago will be seen."

Wow! What a bold faced lie!

" By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light. He can say with rejoicing, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7). {1SM 367.1}

He Becomes Our Righteousness

"Christ looks at the spirit, and when He sees us carrying our burden with faith, His perfect holiness atones for our shortcomings. When we do our best, He becomes our righteousness. It takes every ray of light that God sends to us to make us the light of the world."--Letter 22, 1889.

"The condition of eternal life is now just what it always has been,--just what it was in Paradise before the fall of our first parents,--perfect obedience to the law of God, perfect righteousness. If eternal life were granted on any condition short of this, then the happiness of the whole universe would be imperiled. The way would be open for sin, with all its train of woe and misery, to be immortalized. {SC 62.1}

It was possible for Adam, before the fall, to form a righteous character by obedience to God's law. But he failed to do this, and because of his sin our natures are fallen and we cannot make ourselves righteous. Since we are sinful, unholy, we cannot perfectly obey the holy law. We have no righteousness of our own with which to meet the claims of the law of God. But Christ has made a way of escape for us. He lived on earth amid trials and temptations such as we have to meet. He lived a sinless life. He died for us, and now He offers to take our sins and give us His righteousness. If you give yourself to Him, and accept Him as your Saviour, then, sinful as your life may have been, for His sake you are accounted righteous. Christ's character stands in place of your character, and you are accepted before God just as if you had not sinned." {SC 62.2}

[John317]

The robe of righteousness covers all confessed and repented of sins, nothing else. So there are two distinction here, not one.

Those who think that they can have unconfessed sins, sins that are not forgiven and that Christ still covers those are sadly mistaken. Even the old sanctuary service teaches that.

In the OT, if the person did not bring the sacrifice to the altar confessing his sins at the day of atonement, that person was put out of the camp. This teaches that all sins must be forsaken for one to enter into the gate of heaven.

Very important point, Steve. "The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.

[Woody]

Quote:

Very important point, Steve. "The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL

Ahhh. Now I better what is considered the UNpardonable sin.

[John317]

Quote:

Very important point, Steve. "The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL

Ahhh. Now I better what is considered the UNpardonable sin.

No one can believe with the heart unto righteousness, and obtain justification by faith, while continuing the practice of those things which the Word of God forbids, or while neglecting any known duty.

{1SM 396.2}

Good Works the Fruit of Faith

Genuine faith will be manifested in good works; for good works are the fruits of faith. As God works in the heart, and man surrenders his will to God, and cooperates with God, he works out in the life what God works in by the Holy Spirit, and there is harmony between the purpose of the heart and the practice of the life. Every sin must be renounced as the hateful thing that crucified the Lord of life and glory, and the believer must have a progressive experience by continually doing the works of Christ. It is by continual surrender of the will, by continual obedience, that the blessing of justification is retained. {1SM 397.1}

Those who are justified by faith must have a heart to keep the way of the Lord. It is an evidence that a man is not justified by faith when his works do not correspond to his profession. James says, "Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was his faith made perfect?" (James 2:22). {1SM 397.2}

[teresaq]

BTW, what's wrong with having sex with a beautiful woman especially if I am not married?

Answer: It's a selfish act....I am not interested in her welfare, I interested using her for excitement. Sex is fine, but only in marriage...a good marriage where God is the center....But to get to this understanding I went through Romans 7 first....

You see Hollywood teaches that sex with a woman is love....Bull! Sex inside a committed relationship with God as the center is love....Human love is sin....God's agape love is not....

love your soapbox, bro.

this is where the "legalist", who is probably all of us to some degree, misses it.

there is attempted obedience, which isnt obedience at all, but it is because we are supposed to, or supposed to not, do something.

but when we can learn to look at the cross, and see love, and obey through love, then this board will be a whole lot nicer! :)

[teresaq]

2.) Those who are judged by the works of Jesus because they are covered by HIS Robe. They are found innocent of the curse of the Law because the Law was fulfilled perfectly by the life of Jesus Christ. Their Substitute.

But they must be also keeping the commandments before this.

are you saying we are able to keep the commandments "good enough"?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

Very important point, Steve. "The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL

Ahhh. Now I better what is considered the UNpardonable sin.

No one can believe with the heart unto righteousness, and obtain justification by faith, while continuing the practice of those things which the Word of God forbids, or while neglecting any known duty. {1SM 396.2}

Genuine faith will be manifested in good works; for good works are the fruits of faith. As God works in the heart, and man surrenders his will to God, and cooperates with God, he works out in the life what God works in by the Holy Spirit, and there is harmony between the purpose of the heart and the practice of the life. Every sin must be renounced as the hateful thing that crucified the Lord of life and glory, and the believer must have a progressive experience by continually doing the works of Christ. It is by continual surrender of the will, by continual obedience, that the blessing of justification is retained. {1SM 397.1}

Those who are justified by faith must have a heart to keep the way of the Lord. It is an evidence that a man is not justified by faith when his works do not correspond to his profession. James says, "Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was his faith made perfect?" (James 2:22). {1SM 397.2}

the emphasis made is quite telling in whether a person is trying to live by works or by faith.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Robert

BTW, what's wrong with having sex with a beautiful woman especially if I am not married?

Answer: It's a selfish act....I am not interested in her welfare, I interested using her for excitement. Sex is fine, but only in marriage...a good marriage where God is the center....But to get to this understanding I went through Romans 7 first....

You see Hollywood teaches that sex with a woman is love....Bull! Sex inside a committed relationship with God as the center is love....Human love is sin....God's agape love is not....

love your soapbox, bro.

this is where the "legalist", who is probably all of us to some degree, misses it.

there is attempted obedience, which isnt obedience at all, but it is because we are supposed to, or supposed to not, do something.

but when we can learn to look at the cross, and see love, and obey through love, then this board will be a whole lot nicer!

This is where Stan's "repeat as needed" is needed. lol

[Woody]

Quote:

the emphasis made is quite telling in whether a person is trying to live by works or by faith

Yes Indeed. I do love it when people come forth and can be counted. It IS rather obvious.

[John317]

"The doctrine which teaches freedom, through grace, to break the law is a fatal delusion. Every transgressor of God's law is a sinner, and none can be sanctified while living in KNOWN sin.

"The condescension and agony of God's dear Son were not endured to purchase for man liberty to transgress the Father's law and yet sit down with Christ in His throne. It was that through His merits and the exercise of repentance and faith the most guilty sinner might receive pardon and obtain strength to live a life of obedience. The sinner is NOT SAVED IN HIS SINS, BUT FROM HIS SINS."

"It is impossible for an individual to experience Bible sanctification while he holds that if he believes in Christ it is immaterial whether he obeys God's law or disobeys it." Faith and Works, 30, 31.

"Not one of us can afford to dishonor God by living in transgression of His law... None who have had the light of truth will enter the city of God as commandment-breakers. His law lies at the foundation of His government in earth and in heaven. If they have knowingly trampled upon and despised His law on the earth, they will not be taken to heaven to do the same work there; there is no change of character when Christ comes.

"The character building is to go on during the hours of probation. Day by day their actions are registered in the books of heaven, and they will in the great day of God be rewarded as THEIR works have been. It will then be seen who receives the blessing. 'Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.' (Rev. 22: 14)." Faith and Works, p. 43.

[Guest]

Amen

[teresaq]

"The doctrine which teaches freedom, through grace, to break the law is a fatal delusion. Every transgressor of God's law is a sinner, and none can be sanctified while living in KNOWN sin.

i was addressing what our focus is own.

you are addressing an imaginary post. :)

[pnattmbtc]

2.) Those who are judged by the works of Jesus because they are covered by HIS Robe. They are found innocent of the curse of the Law because the Law was fulfilled perfectly by the life of Jesus Christ. Their Substitute.

But they must be also keeping the commandments before this.

Steve, would you explain what you mean here please?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: John317

"The doctrine which teaches freedom, through grace, to break the law is a fatal delusion. Every transgressor of God's law is a sinner, and none can be sanctified while living in KNOWN sin.

i was addressing what our focus is own.

you are addressing an imaginary post.

Yes Teresa. It's called a straw man. And it is done rather frequently when this subject is addressed.

And it always is done to make the person being addressed look like a heathen.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

And it always is done to make the person being addressed look like a heathen.

lol.

[Robert]

The disciples did not have victory before pentecost for one very simple reason.

They did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...

Mark

The disciples were saved...even Judas. Their names were written in heaven....

Why do people like yourself try to steal away our assurance we have in Jesus...Why? Is it to make yourself feel better about your performance?

Rob

[Robert]

We will be judged by the ten commandments.

Then you can kiss heaven goodbye....

Do you fully agree with the following statement:

PC- RH

PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

DT- 05-07-01

AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

PR- 09

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

[Gerr]

Quote:

The disciples were saved...even Judas. Their names were written in heaven....

Judas saved?

Quote:

Why do people like yourself try to steal away our assurance we have in Jesus...Why? Is it to make yourself feel better about your performance?

Rob

If you REALLY have assurance, no one can take it away from you. But "let him who thinks he stands take heed..." lest he is standing on quicksand and not on the Rock.

[pnattmbtc]

A couple of statements from the SOP come to mind. I think I'll comment on them separately, to prevent this post from being too long.

Quote:

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175, 176)

Here the process of salvation is described. It consists of responding to the love of God revealed at the cross, which leads one to repentance. When one does this, the law is written in the heart, and the thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. This is simply another way of saying that one is brought into harmony with God. This being the case, the judgment need not be feared, as the judgment simply reveals the reality of conversion. If we are Christ's, if we are converted, the judgment will reveal this. Since the law is a transcript of God's character, if we are in harmony with God, we will be in harmony with the law.

[pnattmbtc]

Here's the second statement that came to mind:

Quote:

By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. (COL 312)

Receiving the robe of Christ's righteousness results in a profound inward change. This was a key feature of the 1888 message. "The heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life." This speaks of a union, a harmony, between the believer and God. Being covered with the robe of Christ's righteousness involves this.

[Gerr]

A couple of statements from the SOP come to mind. I think I'll comment on them separately, to prevent this post from being too long.

Quote:

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175, 176)

Here the process of salvation is described. It consists of responding to the love of God revealed at the cross, which leads one to repentance. When one does this, the law is written in the heart, and the thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. This is simply another way of saying that one is brought into harmony with God. This being the case, the judgment need not be feared, as the judgment simply reveals the reality of conversion. If we are Christ's, if we are converted, the judgment will reveal this. Since the law is a transcript of God's character, if we are in harmony with God, we will be in harmony with the law.

AMEN!

[Woody]

Quote:

Judas saved?

Last I checked ... his name is written in the book of Life unless you recently went to Heaven and deleted it.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

We will be judged by the ten commandments.

Then you can kiss heaven goodbye....

Do you fully agree with the following statement:

PC- RH

PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

DT- 05-07-01

AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

PR- 09

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

"Context is everything" as it turns out when responding to arguments like the above.

For example in Ezek 18 we find the "soul that sins shall die" quote - which is about the second death. It speaks of the righteous turning from their faithful obedience to rebellion and then "dying" for that. It talks of the wicked turning from their wickedness to obedience and "LIVING".

The context is the 2nd death payment - and the teaching is that the wicked that turn to obedience - LIVE instead of being sent to the 2nd death Lake of fire.

A more devastating point refuting Robert's argument can hardly be imagined - than is found in his own quote!

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Context is always a joke. For it is always in the eye of the beholder instead of the person who wrote it either hundreds or thousands of years. I guess if the person was alive you could ask them what the context was. But I've noticed that here on the forum when I write ... that people refuse to use what I say in context no matter how loud I plead. So please pray tell ... how do we pretend to proclaim what is 'context' for those that are dead when we refuse to do it for those alive.