Woody Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Quote: We really need to base our thinking about these issues on the Bible. So I will agree with you if you can show evidence from Scripture or the writings of Ellen White that these things are true. Quote: Really? We are to discard Jesus' teaching? Who told you that? :-) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Quote: In all due respect, Redwood, where are you getting your views of these things? Where does either the Bible or the Spirit of prophecy use "conversion" in that way? Unless one changes their glasses ... they will never be converted. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Maybe... "Conversion", "salvation" and "victory" have more than one meaning. Maybe they are used different ways at different times by different people. Maybe instead of arguing about what a certain specific word or phrase means (I think the Bible says something about not making someone an offender for a word?), we could try to figure out what it means in each specific situation, rather than just saying, "Oh, that's not what 'saved' means," or "How can you believe such a thing about 'conversion'?" SivartM ... you are wise beyond your years. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) but it is a whole lot easier to make a little effort to understand what is being said. saves a lot of childishness and answers the prayer of Jesus in john 17. [/quote'] No matter how hard I try to understand, oil is still oil, darkness is still darkness, and gasoline and fire still cause combustion. We must be lights shining in darkness... and who says combustion is bad? Fire and darkness aren't exactly friends. So you bring the match, and we'll bring the gasoline! By the way... in the Bible, water and oil are both symbols of the Holy Spirit. Who says they can't mix? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Guest Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Legalism is working its way into the SDA church and you can hear it from our pulpits. Ellen White says that there will be those preaching from SDA pulpits whose torches have been lit by the fires of demons. See Jude 4. I am not saying that these people want to give the impression that we can be saved by obeying God's law, but that is nevertheless the effect of their teaching in the minds of many who hear their messages. They take it to mean that people can be saved by getting victories over their sins . So are you saying then that people can't be saved by gaining victory over sin by God's grace? Are you saying the only way is to remain in your sins? Because that's what it looks like you're saying. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted December 22, 2009 Moderators Posted December 22, 2009 Isn't that the way one shows they are not legalists? By not obeying yet continue to claim salvation that's free? Quote
Woody Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Quote: So are you saying then that people can't be saved by gaining victory over sin by God's grace? Hey now this is a positive development. Someone is asking what I believe instead of stating what I believe. Cool. Thanks Richard. Yes I am saying that people can NOT be saved by gaining victory over sin by God's Grace. The only thing that saves ... is the sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf and for us to accept His Robe of Righteousness which will cover our faulty attempts to gain victory over sin by God's Grace. For no matter how much we allow God's Grace in our life ... it will not be enough to answer the curse of the Law. The works HE does in ME ... are as filthy rags towards my salvation. Yes. That is my belief. Now you know. For what it is worth. But, I suspect you have a different view and praise God ... he accepts both of us. If my eternal salvation depended upon my understanding of Him ... I would be lost. For I have much to learn and much to unlearn. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
teresaq Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Quote: So are you saying then that people can't be saved by gaining victory over sin by God's grace? Hey now this is a positive development. Someone is asking what I believe instead of stating what I believe. Cool. Thanks Richard. Yes I am saying that people can NOT be saved by gaining victory over sin by God's Grace. The only thing that saves ... is the sacrifice of Jesus on our behalf and for us to accept His Robe of Righteousness which will cover our faulty attempts to gain victory over sin by God's Grace. For no matter how much we allow God's Grace in our life ... it will not be enough to answer the curse of the Law. The works HE does in ME ... are as filthy rags towards my salvation. Yes. That is my belief. Now you know. For what it is worth. But, I suspect you have a different view and praise God ... he accepts both of us. If my eternal salvation depended upon my understanding of Him ... I would be lost. For I have much to learn and much to unlearn. it seems that it is not understanding the difference between the title to heaven and the fitness for heaven. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Woody Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Good Point Teresa. Our fitness for heaven is a different matter and will be completed when we See His Face at the Second Coming in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. Quote: "Like Him. This points to the fulfillment of God's plan for fallen man -- restoration to the divine image...It is God's design to restore that similitude by giving man victory over sin and over every temptation. The restoration will be completed AT THE SECOND COMING." 7 BC 649 1 John 3:2 " Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. " Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted December 22, 2009 Moderators Posted December 22, 2009 1 John 3:2 " Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;for we shall see him as he is. " Notice it says "we shall be like him." It's talking about those who are ready for His appearance and have put on his robe of character. That robe does not cover one cherished sin. They are like him, which is why they see Him as He is and do not perish with the wicked who are NOT like him. The righteous have been washed and cleansed of all unrighteousness, which doesn't mean they are still committing sins that they keep confessing and doing and confessing and doing. They won't be people defeated by sin but they will be overcomers of sin like Christ overcame. They will be practicing 1 John 1: 5 to 2:6. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved. Understand? But, as long as your faith remains in Christ YOU are saved! Understand? You guys are so paranoid...so worried about your salvation....That's the mark of a legalist....Always worried...never having assurance and then the legalist wishes to pull everyone else down so that they have no assurance also....Terrible. Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 do you mean judas was saved, but lost his salvation?bingo Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Then what are they saved from? The curse of the law....Christ came to save us from the law.....See Gal 4:4 Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 The Bible calls Judas a "son of destruction." I've never really looked into this, but you'll have to prove it to me using the Bible alone. Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 "Oh, yes," some say, "we are saved in doing nothing. In fact, I am saved. I need not keep the law of God. I am saved by the righteousness of Jesus Christ." Christ came to our world to bring all men back to allegiance to God. To take the position that you can break God's law, for Christ has done it all, is a position of death.{FW 71} We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. [CW 37] Quote
SivartM Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook Then what are they saved from? The curse of the law....Christ came to save us from the law.....See Gal 4:4 But the law is basically only an expression of God's character. The law is essentially love. He came to save us from the penalty of not living up to the law, but not from the law itself. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Notice it says "we shall be like him." "We shall be changed...." When we are glorified then we will be like Christ. Quote
Guest Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert The curse of the law....Christ came to save us from the law.....See Gal 4:4 But the law is basically only an expression of God's character. The law is essentially love. He came to save us from the penalty of not living up to the law' date=' but not from the law itself.[/quote'] Exactly Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 He came to save us from the penalty of not living up to the law, but not from the law itself. Really? And what demands death? The law! Quote
Guest Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: John317 The Bible calls Judas a "son of destruction." I've never really looked into this, but you'll have to prove it to me using the Bible alone. I think he just did. Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Gal 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Quote
Robert Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert I've never really looked into this' date=' but you'll have to prove it to me using the Bible alone.[/quote'] I think he just did. Joh 17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. I don't see Judas' name.... Quote
Guest Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook I don't see Judas' name.... Ok, who do you think he was talking about? Quote
SivartM Posted December 22, 2009 Posted December 22, 2009 Gal 4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. That's wonderful... but what does it mean? I don't see where this says Jesus came to save us from the law. It says He came to save (redeem) those under law. What does it mean to be under law? What does it mean to receive the full rights of sons? Seeing that Jesus was "born under law", does that reflect the idea that the law is a bad thing? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
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