Victory over sin... One day in the future...

[Robert]

No, conversion is the entrance of the Holy Spirit into the heart

That's where the principle of agape begins to renew the mind....

But just because your mind is in tune with God's love doesn't mean your nature is....So, unless one allows the Holy Spirit to have the flesh, trying to defeat the flesh with the mind will not work....Hence the experience of Romans 7....But again, he is saved because salvation is not based on one's performance....

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

We will be judged by the ten commandments.

Then you can kiss heaven goodbye....

Do you fully agree with the following statement:

PC- RH

PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

DT- 05-07-01

AT- The Great Standard of Righteousness

PR- 09

Complete obedience is the only condition that meets the requirement of the law. “God is not a man, that He should lie.” God’s law is the rule of His government. He says, “This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.” “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” God has given the promise that those who obey His law will be rewarded, not only in the present life, but in the life to come. He declares just as decidedly that those who do not obey His requirements shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on them. By lips that never lie the obedient are blessed, and the disobedient are pronounced guilty.

[Robert]

For one thing he wasn't born again

Luke 10:20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Judas included at that time....

[Guest]

Obey and live. Disobey and die.

[BobRyan]

Again ... I ask that you provide proof for your accusation that some are "trying to say that Judas will be in heaven".

[Robert]

He was saved...his name was written in heaven, but perhaps he hardened his heart....That's my point...He was saved....

[pnattmbtc]

I'm not complaining with the actions of the moderators, as I'm in favor of free speech, as far as possible. But I'd like to see posters being as charitable with one another as the moderators have been.

[Robert]

Yes

So you agree with her? You agree that, "This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.”

[Robert]

Obey and live. Disobey and die.

Then you'll never make it....

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Yes

So you agree with her? You agree that, "This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.”

Think about it...because if you insist on this being correct...that we are obligated...that we are under law...that we must obey to live, but die if we do not measure up, then you are worse than a Judaizer....You are a first class Pharisee....Are you sure you want to sanction her statement???

Rob

[Guest]

He was saved...his name was written in heaven, but perhaps he hardened his heart....That's my point...He was saved....

Since he won't be in heaven, he must not have been too "saved".

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

He was saved...his name was written in heaven, but perhaps he hardened his heart....That's my point...He was saved....

Since he won't be in heaven, he must not have been too "saved".

No, he was saved, but he turned his back on salvation....Comprehend?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

i was addressing what our focus is own.

you are addressing an imaginary post.

That quote is not addressing any one person in particular, nor any one post in particular. It is a quote that everyone on this thread-- including myself-- needs to keep it in mind. [/quote']

Quote:

Really?

We are to discard Jesus' teaching?

Who told you that?

:-)

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Since he won't be in heaven, he must not have been too "saved". [/quote']

No, he was saved, but he turned his back on salvation....Comprehend?

That's why I have a problem using that term on people who are still here on this sinful earth.

He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved. Understand?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

The disciples were saved...even Judas. Their names were written in heaven....

Judas saved?

Yes, Judas was saved....

im really not interested in the silly argument going back and forth, no offense meant honestly, im just curious to understand what you mean.

do you mean judas was saved, but lost his salvation?

or is now saved and will be in heaven?

[teresaq]

Obey and live. Disobey and die.

Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

....

Exo 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us;

old covenant versus new covenant.

perhaps you meant that. :0

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Quote:

The disciples were saved...even Judas. Their names were written in heaven....

Judas saved?

Yes, Judas was saved....

I was going to say this but I see you have beat me to it Rob. I suppose that I should put this in large print so that Gerry can read it ... but I will resist.

Anways ... Gerry. Judas was saved when he gave decided to follow Christ. Just like each of us do in our own imperfect ways. But that does not mean once saved always saved. So, Judas like many .... was saved but then later rejected this status and as the quotes you quoted stated ... he is now lost. No one here has stated that Judas IS saved. I hope this helps your vision.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Yes, Judas was saved....

im just curious to understand what you mean.

do you mean judas was saved, but lost his salvation?

or is now saved and will be in heaven?

Robert can correct me if I am mistaken, but on the basis of his previous posts on the topic, he's probably referring to Christ's having died for all humanity. See Romans 5: 18.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Since he won't be in heaven, he must not have been too "saved". [/quote']

No, he was saved, but he turned his back on salvation....Comprehend?

Well ... I see you already tried to explain this to them. I doubt it will help. But, not all who have their names in the book of Life will be saved. They were however saved at one point in their experience. But since for whatever reason ... they decided to go down a different path.

Some here it would appear believe in once saved always saved ... and once lost always lost. But Jesus came to seek and save the lost so that they would be lost no longer. The same works in reverse. Once one is saved ... it does not mean that they will remain saved.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Robert

So you agree with her? You agree that' date=' "This do, and thou shalt live.” But to the disobedient He says, “Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things written in the book of the law to do them.”

Think about it...because if you insist on this being correct...that we are obligated...that we are under law...that we must obey to live, but die if we do not measure up, then you are worse than a Judaizer....You are a first class Pharisee....Are you sure you want to sanction her statement???

Rob [/quote']i have watched the trap being set and then sprung by pride, but i would like to contribute this as a balance to her statement above.

Quote:

A fig-leaf apron will never cover our nakedness. Sin must be taken away, and the garment of Christ's righteousness must cover the transgressor of God's law. Then when the Lord looks upon the believing sinner, He sees, not the fig leaves covering him, but Christ's own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah. Man has hidden his nakedness, not under a covering of fig leaves, but under the robe of Christ's righteousness. {UL 378.3}

only Christ had perfect obedience.

Quote:

hen the angel repeated these words, and said, "This is the time spoken of in Isaiah. He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. He had no mediator between God and man, and these plagues could be withheld no longer, for Jesus had ceased to plead for Israel, and they were covered with the covering of the Almighty God, and then they could live in the sight of a holy God, and those who were not covered, the plagues fell upon them, for they had nothing to shelter or protect them from the wrath of God."

Christs righteousness from start to finish.

i suggest none of us truly understand this. some may have a better understanding than others-i didnt put myself under the some, you all, in anticipation of the sarcasm- but i believe we all need to understand it deeper and deeper.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Well ... I see you already tried to explain this to them. I doubt it will help. But, not all who have their names in the book of Life will be saved. They were however saved at one point in their experience. But since for whatever reason ... they decided to go down a different path.

Some here it would appear believe in once saved always saved ... and once lost always lost. But Jesus came to seek and save the lost so that they would be lost no longer. The same works in reverse. Once one is saved ... it does not mean that they will remain saved.

Then what are they saved from?

[Woody]

Quote:

I'm not sure that they're saying that Judas will be in heaven.

Thankyou. No matter how many times this has been pointed out it doesn't seem to matter. At NO time did anyone here state that Judas would be saved. And yet some insist on portraying it as such.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Robert

I was going to say this but I see you have bet me to it Rob. I suppose that I should put this in large print so that Gerry can read it ... but I will resist.

Anways ... Gerry. Judas was saved when he gave decided to follow Christ. Just like each of us do in our own imperfect ways. [/quote']

The Bible calls Judas a "son of destruction." Ellen White says he was never converted. An unconverted person is not saved in any sense of the word. What's dangerous is for the unconverted to think they're saved. Judas was controlled and eventually possessed by demons, and from the start Jesus referred to him as a "demon."

Nowhere does the Bible or the writings of Ellen White refer to Judas as "saved" or "justified." I think it's important to use language on these matters in the way that Inspiration has expressed them because otherwise people are likely to get confused over what it means to be "saved." It's one reason Ellen White discouraged people from considering themselves "saved." We're being saved but obviously no one is yet saved in the biblical sense, and we won't be until the second resurrection or until the Second Coming.

By the way, this is not saying that believers can't have confidence in salvation. But to say "I am saved" while deliberately and willfully practicing sin is not living faith but false hope.

To speak of everyone on earth as having been "saved" seems to me to make being "saved" a relatively meaningless term. This is one of the main themes of First John.

I think we're better off speaking of it the way the Bible does and the way Paul and the books of Acts refer to it. There it is always, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Or "Repent and believe on Jesus and you will be saved." It is never, "You already were saved before you were born." Jesus loved us and died for us before we were born, for sure, but I don't believe that's the same as being "saved." We have eternal life as long as we have the Son of God. We don't have the Son of God before we are born or even before we sincerely accept Him as our Lord and Savior. And we lose that eternal life when we cease to have the Son of God.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Obey and live. Disobey and die.

Then you'll never make it....

That's for sure. No one will. And I'll have lots of company in Hell.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Quote:

No, he was saved, but he turned his back on salvation....Comprehend?

Well ... I see you already tried to explain this to them. I doubt it will help. But, not all who have their names in the book of Life will be saved. They were however saved at one point in their experience. But since for whatever reason ... they decided to go down a different path.

Some here it would appear believe in once saved always saved ... and once lost always lost. But Jesus came to seek and save the lost so that they would be lost no longer. The same works in reverse. Once one is saved ... it does not mean that they will remain saved.

Judas was sinning till he died and is lost. You claim you will keep on sinning till you die but you have the assurance of salvation. For doing the same thing you claim to be doing, why is he lost and you have assurance you are/will be saved?