Rick Warren ...

[Guest]

"I really do feel that these people are brothers and sisters in God's family. I am looking to build bridges with the Orthodox Church, looking to build bridges with the Catholic Church, with the Anglican church."

The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.--The Great Controversy, p. 588. {ChS 160.1}

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Rick Warren

"I really do feel that these people are brothers and sisters in God's family. I am looking to build bridges with the Orthodox Church, looking to build bridges with the Catholic Church, with the Anglican church."

The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.--The Great Controversy, p. 588. {ChS 160.1}

Prophecy being fulfilled before our eyes.

" And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. "

Rev 16:13,14 NKJV

"Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”" Luke 21:28 NKJV

JOY!!!

[hch]

Originally Posted By: Rick Warren

"I really do feel that these people are brothers and sisters in God's family. I am looking to build bridges with the Orthodox Church, looking to build bridges with the Catholic Church, with the Anglican church."

The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.--The Great Controversy, p. 588. {ChS 160.1}

Since God calls His people to come out of Babylon, His people should be able to identify Babylon. Is she the mother church or her daughters or both? When Babylon is identified, should we build bridges to help the Babylonians to flee safely? Or should we burn the bridges once we leave it to keep its corruptions from readily flowing into our church of sanctuary?

If the Catholic Church or her Protestant daughters are a part of Babylon, why would we want to read anything that comes from Babylon?

I've been told that by beholding we are changed. The corruptible to the incorruptible or to even more corruptible:

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord (2 Corinthians 3:18).

[Woody]

I didn't see anything new agey in the source provided. But then rather than me reading an entire source ... you could point out to me what you felt was new agey.

[Woody]

Ellen White says similar things in many places compared to Rick Warren.

..."Christian is to be united with Christian, church with church, the human instrumentality co-operating with the divine, every agency subordinate to the Holy Spirit, and all combined in giving to the world the good tidings of the grace of God." Ellen White in AA 96

[Woody]

"But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath; and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before Him." GC 449

[lazarus]

He teaches dependence on self, instead of dependence on God. In a subtle way of course.

Here's is a sample of Warren's material which I use for the discipleship class in my church. It's the best material I could find. I couldn't find an SDA class that was better. I haven't found anything that teaches dependence on self.

Can you post some examples?

UNDERSTANDING DISCIPLESHIP

1. Mature believers are called ____ DISCIPLES __________

2. I cannot be a disciple without being ___ DISCIPLINED ________

3. The more disciplined I become ___THE MORE GOD CAN USE ME_____

4. The mark of a disciple is ___CROSS BEARING______________

(Jesus) "Anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple." Luke 14:27

5. How often am I to do this? ___DAILY_____________

(Jesus) "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23

6. What is involved in "cross bearing"?

___WHATEVER IT TAKES____ to give Christ first place in my life!

FOUR HABITS OF A DISCIPLE

HOW CAN I BECOME A DISCIPLE? Develop___ DISCIPLINE HABITS________

"... You have put off the old self with its HABITS, and have put on the new self ... which God is continually renewing in his own image, to bring you to a full knowledge of himself." Col. 3:9-10

1. TIME WITH GOD'S WORD

"If you continue in my Word, then you are my disciples indeed. And you will know the truth and the truth will set you free." John 8:31-32

2. PRAYER

"If you remain in me, and my words remain in you, then you will ask for anything you wish, and you shall have it ... in this way you become my disciples."

John 15:7-8 (GN)

3. TITHING

"None of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all of his possessions."

Luke 14:33 (JB)

"The purpose of tithing is to teach you to always put God first in your lives."

Deut. 14:23 (LB)

4. FELLOWSHIP

"Love each other just as much as I love you. Your strong love for each other will prove to the world that you are my disciples."

John 13:34-35 (LB)

[lazarus]

Excellent Quote Red.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I didn't see anything new agey in the source provided. But then rather than me reading an entire source ... you could point out to me what you felt was new agey.

I already said I don't have the book anymore. What I provided was what came up on a websearch of "Rick Warren new age"... If you didn't see anything new age on the references I provided then that's your opinion...

It's his references to meditation that triggered my antennae. Meditating on Christ the way EGW was referring to, was NOT was he was referring to.

My advice to you if you want to know for sure about the book for yourself is to read it yourself and make up your own mind. I'm sure it has some good points to it for some people. For me, it was not a good book to read due to my past history. If you can't accept that, I'm sorry.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.--The Great Controversy, p. 588. {ChS 160.1} [/quote']

Since God calls His people to come out of Babylon, His people should be able to identify Babylon. Is she the mother church or her daughters or both? When Babylon is identified, should we build bridges to help the Babylonians to flee safely? Or should we burn the bridges once we leave it to keep its corruptions from readily flowing into our church of sanctuary?

If the Catholic Church or her Protestant daughters are a part of Babylon, why would we want to read anything that comes from Babylon?

I've been told that by beholding we are changed. The corruptible to the incorruptible or to even more corruptible:

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord (2 Corinthians 3:18).

This has been my whole point from the beginning, but if SDAs can't see this, or follow the advise God has given concerning babylon, then there's not much else you can do, but stand back and let them drink from the broken cisterns of babylon.

That's why I was so incredulous when Redwood suggested we send our money to support them. One has to wonder which team some are really playing for, so to speak. Whether it is Belial, or Jehovah.

2Co 6:15,17 And what harmony has Christ with Belial?...Therefore come out from among them, and be you separate, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

There is nothing in the popular ministry that stirs the wrath of Satan, makes the sinner tremble, or applies to the heart and conscience the fearful realities of a judgment soon to come. Wicked men are generally pleased with a form of piety without true godliness, and they will aid and support such a religion.

Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body.

I saw that since Jesus left the holy place of the heavenly sanctuary and entered within the second veil, the churches have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet their members profess to be Christians. Their profession, their prayers, and their exhortations are an abomination in the sight of God. {EW 273,274}

The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines, such as the natural immortality of the soul, the eternal torment of the wicked,...and advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God's holy, sanctified day. These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches. . . . {Ev 365.1}

I was shown the necessity of those who believe we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. ......while they teach error that is poisonous, and death to the soul, and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. And the influence is not good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith he has set us free, and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with those who go to listen to error, when they are not obliged to; {EW 124}

[Guest]

Here's is a sample of Warren's material which I use for the discipleship class in my church. It's the best material I could find. I couldn't find an SDA class that was better. I haven't found anything that teaches dependence on self.

Can you post some examples?

I don't really see anything wrong with using that particular material for a discipleship class, but about the dependence on self, all you have to do is pray for the gift of discernment, and read one of his books. You will see it.

[Woody]

I'm happy to say that my pastor is building bridges with the other denominations in our community including the Catholic church.

[Guest]

Somehow this doesn't surprise me, but what you are also saying, is that you are happy to see your pastor throw out the instructions given by God through his prophet.

[Woody]

I think it is you that is throwing them out. Just my opinion. I've quoted them here and they are pretty clear to most folks.

[Woody]

Our church works hand in hand with the Catholic Church in our community to serve the needs of those suffering. I say PRAISE GOD.

[Woody]

My pastor recently completed the Seminary at Andrews ... I think they probably covered this issue there and perhaps they might have some more insights than you or I.

[Guest]

Ellen White says similar things in many places compared to Rick Warren.

..."Christian is to be united with Christian, church with church, the human instrumentality co-operating with the divine, every agency subordinate to the Holy Spirit, and all combined in giving to the world the good tidings of the grace of God." Ellen White in AA 96

If you look at this in it's proper context, it is not saying that we should unite with babylon, like you are trying to make it appear. It is saying that the early believers were to unite with one another. Here it is in context.

The order that was maintained in the early Christian church made it possible for them to move forward solidly as a well-disciplined army clad with the armor of God. The companies of believers, though scattered over a large territory, were all members of one body; all moved in concert and in harmony with one another. When dissension arose in a local church, as later it did arise in Antioch and elsewhere, and the believers were unable to come to an agreement among themselves, such matters were not permitted to create a division in the church, but were referred to a general council of the entire body of believers, made up of appointed delegates from the various local churches, with the apostles and elders in positions of leading responsibility. Thus the efforts of Satan to attack the church in isolated places were met by concerted action on the part of all, and the plans of the enemy to disrupt and destroy were thwarted. {AA 95.3}

"God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:33. He requires that order and system be observed in the conduct of church affairs today no less than in the days of old. He desires His work to be carried forward with thoroughness and exactness so that He may place upon it the seal of His approval. Christian is to be united with Christian, church with church, the human instrumentality co-operating with the divine, every agency subordinate to the Holy Spirit, and all combined in giving to the world the good tidings of the grace of God. {AA 96.1}

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Just because someone went to seminary doesn't mean they have more insight. From what I've been hearing about Andrews University, it's becoming more and more liberal. That's what we're hearing out where I am.

I'm glad your church is working with other churches to help the needy. That's a worthwhile project. :smile:

[Guest]

Just because someone went to seminary doesn't mean they have more insight. From what I've been hearing about Andrews University, it's becoming more and more liberal. That's what we're hearing out where I am.

I'm glad your church is working with other churches to help the needy. That's a worthwhile project. :smile:

I can say Amen to that Pam.

[Jeannieb43]

Just because someone went to seminary doesn't mean they have more insight. From what I've been hearing about Andrews University, it's becoming more and more liberal. That's what we're hearing out where I am.

I'm glad your church is working with other churches to help the needy. That's a worthwhile project. :smile:

Please don't blame Andrews University for the actions of some of its offshoot former students. Andrews has the strongest, most dedicated Religion Department of any of our SDA colleges. They have a strong student organization leadership which leads out in spiritual activities on campus and off campus.

It's the flagship university of the Adventist Church. There is close supervision of the doctrines which are being taught there. --But we need to remember however, that the college age is the time when students learn to test their beliefs and practices against those of other persuasions. A student coming to campus believing there's only one way to organize a church service, for instance [e.g., does every church use the Doxology as the ministers enter the platform? for instance] has eye-opening experiences when he learns about others' beliefs and practices -- all of which are doctrinally sound, but just "different" from what the student has been used to in his home church.

[Woody]

If one doesn't get more insights after paying over $100,000 to attend a school ... they must be total fools to attend. (And dear pastor ... I'm not calling you a fool ... it's just that that's a lot of money to not get any thing out of it.)

Perhaps our prospective pastors could just spend more time on CA and get better prepared as pastors. :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Oh, I wasn't blaming Andrews for actions of off-shoot former students. I was merely saying that in my neck of the woods, we've been hearing of liberal ideas coming out of the University.

And sorry, Redwood, I don't think that going to Seminary makes anyone a good pastor or makes them special in some way. I know a number of pastors who didn't go to seminary and are better pastors than those who did.

[Woody]

Oh, I wasn't blaming Andrews for actions of off-shoot former students. I was merely saying that in my neck of the woods, we've been hearing of liberal ideas coming out of the University.

And are you implying that that would be 'bad'? Jesus was a liberal. He clearly rocked the boat of His time. So I hardly thing that the label 'liberal' is bad. Perhaps you would need to be a little more specific about ideas coming out of Andrews that are bad. Then we could rationally decide rather than just using useless labels.

I still 'love' you Rudywoofs. (In Christ) Don't mean to unsult you. Just mean to challenge you. For you is COOL. !!!

[Guest]

If one doesn't get more insights after paying over $100,000 to attend a school ... they must be total fools to attend.

You said that, not me. But there are some things money can't buy. Spiritual insight is one of them.

God is not dependent upon men of perfect education. His work is not to wait while His servants go through such lengthy, elaborate preparations as some of our schools are planning to give. He wants men who appreciate the privilege of being laborers together with Him--men who will honor Him by rendering implicit obedience to His requirements, regardless of previously inculcated theories. {CT 409}

[bonnie]

Quote:

And are you implying that that would be 'bad'? Jesus was a liberal. He clearly rocked the boat of His time. So I hardly thing that the label 'liberal' is bad. Perhaps you would need to be a little more specific about ideas coming out of Andrews that are bad. Then we could rationally decide rather than just using useless labels.

Rocking the boat does not indicate liberal or conservative.Christ was sent to show us the way and that is not always either liberal or conservative. Both sides like to claim Christ as "the leader of their chosen ideology"