Rick Warren ...

[Guest]

Not the only one I could come up with. Pam's link backs up what I said and more. I guess now you're going to say spiritualism is a good thing.

http://hbcnyc.org/manuscripts/Rick_Warren.html

Pam you really know how to do good research!

[Woody]

Exellent Pam!

She got back with it before I could.

Here's the link to the quote I used.

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/warrenquotes.htm

That's simply gossip. Not a reference. It is some person on the internet claiming that they 'heard' him say something.

But if you must have it as a reference ... I will give it to you. But it says nothing about the claims you make.

[Guest]

Say Redwood, how is that whole "posing as a conservative" thing working out for you?

Do you feel like you've been....Set Free?

[Woody]

Well ... I do appreciate you now trying to look things up. But it is usually best to know what you are talking about BEFORE you speak. Again ... if you can come up with any references for the accusations you have made against Rick Warren ... I would be interested. But so far you have come up with a big ZERO. So, I won't hold my breath.

[Woody]

Say Redwood, how is that whole "posing as a conservative" thing working out for you?

Do you feel like you've been....Set Free?

Trying to change the subject? Hmmm. Oh well. Yes, I am a true conservative who tries to combat those who would falsely take on the name. From the moment I arrived on this forum ... I proclaimed my conservative credentials. I see no need to repeat them. What I dislike is seeing how some are overtaking Present Truth and hijacking what it means to be a conservative. Yes, as typically defined by some on this forum ... I would not be a conservative. And proudly not.

[Guest]

[Woody]

Okay. Now ... after your deflection ... can we go back to your attempts to prove your gossip about Rick Warren. I again ask for some references to back up what you have stated against him. And please ... provide the page number and book title. Don't just refer me to a web site that you may or may not have read. And that may or may not have anything to do with the concern at hand.

[Guest]

[Woody]

Quite infantile don't you think? But if that is the best you can do ... we have all learned a great deal here.

This tells me that you consider gossip just fine. But if someone asks for references ... then this is what they get:

[Guest]

If you cared anything about the truth, you would look it up yourself. I don't have anymore time to waste on you.

[Woody]

If you cared anything about the truth, you would look it up yourself. I don't have anymore time to waste on you.

Well .... that is your right. And I think the world has seen what you have to offer. And they will consider it. There is a choice here ... Truth or Gossip. I know ... you tell me to go and look up and find your accusations against Rick Warren ... somewhere out there in outer space. Well ... I am sure if you got it ... it must be out there some where. But for sure ... I ain't goin' ta waste my time trying to prove your gossip and theories.

[Woody]

"We are not called upon to enter into controversy with those who hold false theories. Controversy is unprofitable. " LS 93 (1915)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I read Rick Warren's book. I don't have it anymore, and it isn't accessible online. What I wrote was not gossip. You can call it unsubstantiated fact, but don't call me a gossiper or a liar, please. It was my opinion, which is just as good as anyone elses.

If you want to read Warren's books, do it.

[Woody]

No problem Pam ... as I was not speaking to you ... as I am sure you must be aware. But so far ... I have not seen any facts regarding the accusations made by Richard. And he refuses to provide any references. So ... I have just chosen to drop the issue. I think that to most here ... we can see things for what they are.

I do appreciate your situation Pam. And you have been honest and clear in the reasons why you can not read him due to your past situations. I have no problem with that. And appreciate the manner in which you stated it.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

what a mess.

[Guest]

Truer words were never spoken.

[LifeHiscost]

Okay... Read Warren's work all you want. All I can tell you is that it wouldn't be good for me with my background.

And not having read it myself, that gives everyone right to not read it if they so choose. Not,of course, denying your right to surrender.

Joy!! and

[LifeHiscost]

Okay. Now ... after your deflection ... can we go back to your attempts to prove your gossip about Rick Warren. I again ask for some references to back up what you have stated against him. And please ... provide the page number and book title. Don't just refer me to a web site that you may or may not have read. And that may or may not have anything to do with the concern at hand.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/rick_warren.html

Here's some quotes from Rick Warren that seem worthwhile repeating. Sounds just as good as any philosopher but doesn't seem to have any influence in drawing people to Jesus, and as I understand it, for salvation, that's essential to spread the gospel.

That would make his book just another self-help book.

" Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."Acts 4:12 KJV

"...for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV

Joy!

[Gail]

New Age spirituality is essentially the belief that all the world’s religions are identical at the mystical level and therefore there can be unity among them. It is based on the lie that in the “center of your being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin … a point of pure truth …(which) is the pure glory of God in us”, and that it in everybody, according to a popular and well know Roman Catholic mystic, Thomas Merton. [vi]

Shockingly, in his best selling books and on his web site, Rick Warren endorses those who promote and practice New Age spirituality, such as panentheism (God is in all things), mysticism, centering prayer, contemplative prayer, and spiritual formations/disciplines (New Age prayer techniques).

For example, In The Purpose Driven Church, Warren refers to many questionable movements as having a “valid message” for the church that God has used to be a “wake-up call” for the church. Among those he endorses are Richard Foster and Dallas Willard, both of whom practice and promote the “Spiritual formations movement.” [vii] In Richard Foster’s popular book, Celebration of Discipline, there are eleven references to Thomas Merton (quoted above) [viii]

http://hbcnyc.org/manuscripts/Rick_Warren.html

Pam, this New Age link that you are talking about is more than that. There is a direction now which the current mainstream churches are following which is called the "Emerging Church". The direction? Straight toward services and practises that are more "sensory", which include candles, icons and a meditation that is not Biblical. PLUS some are accepting the Eucharist, apparently.

You need to do what is right for your experience. Pam did the right thing for her, using the information she had by reading the material and using discernment. That is what we must all do, not blindly accept anything that comes.

That will not stop me or others, though, from gleaning what good there is from such sources as the mystic writers of the ancient past. We have read much here how some folks have been blessed through the odd gem that they have found through extraneous than SDA sources . I think, though, that it a good thing to BE AWARE.

[Gail]

I will comment more on this later...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Gail, it's like the Adventists who bought their kids the Harry Potter books. There's morality and "right wins over wrong" in those books, but for me, it would be wrong (and dangerous) to read them. Others think they're fine. To those who can throw out the bad and keep the good, more power to them.

[phkrause]

Gail, it's like the Adventists who bought their kids the Harry Potter books. There's morality and "right wins over wrong" in those books, but for me, it would be wrong (and dangerous) to read them. Others think they're fine. To those who can throw out the bad and keep the good, more power to them.

Good comment rudywoofs, I agree.

pk

[LifeHiscost]

That will not stop me or others, though, from gleaning what good there is from such sources as the mystic writers of the ancient past. We have read much here how some folks have been blessed through the odd gem that they have found through extraneous than SDA sources . I think, though, that it a good thing to BE AWARE.

There was some of that reasoning in the garden. And look where it led. Where we get our source material can sneak up behind us and bite.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." Genesis 3:5-7 KJV

Joy!

[hch]

I'm happy to say that my pastor is building bridges with the other denominations in our community including the Catholic church.

My sister was recently baptized into one of the SDA Churches that also appears to be liberal. She has been exposed to our teachings since she was a child, but took 50-years to let Jesus be her best Friend and make the plunge.

She now expresses amazement that the SDA women in her new church family wear jewelry and fashions that are anything but modest. In her church, "Some of the SDA members smoke, one is living with her boyfriend, and when they are in the foyer Sabbath morning, the conversations are anything but sacred - ball games, cars, and movies that they recently saw."

So what kind of bridges are we building?

[hch]