Rick Warren ...

[Woody]

Yes Bonnie. Thus my point ... the labels are rather impotent.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

If one doesn't get more insights after paying over $100,000 to attend a school ... they must be total fools to attend.

You said that, not me. But there are some things money can't buy. Spiritual insight is one of them.

God is not dependent upon men of perfect education. His work is not to wait while His servants go through such lengthy, elaborate preparations as some of our schools are planning to give. He wants men who appreciate the privilege of being laborers together with Him--men who will honor Him by rendering implicit obedience to His requirements, regardless of previously inculcated theories. {CT 409}

Hey ... perhaps we should just shut down our school systems. Just think of all the money we could save and redirect towards feeding the poor. But that leaves us with the question ... how would our pastors be educated? By the world and THEIR education systems?

I dunno?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Redwood, *you* used the word "bad"...not me.

I know several pastors who didn't attend seminary and they beat seminarians hands down in their knowledge and attitudes in the church.

[Guest]

Yep

[lazarus]

I don't really see anything wrong with using that particular material for a discipleship class, but about the dependence on self, all you have to do is pray for the gift of discernment, and read one of his books. You will see it.

Sorry dude, read at least two of his books and haven't seen it. You need to give examples.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't have a problem with Pastor Rick Warren. I read his "Purpose" book and it was pretty good. It wasn't deep and profound. It seemed to be for a new Christian. I think he read some things into some verses that wasn't there but can't remember what it was now. I won't be sending him any money. He has a lot of Sun worshipers to send him money. My money needs to stay a little closer to home.

Now if Stan needed a million dollars, that would be a different story.

[lazarus]

And sorry, Redwood, I don't think that going to Seminary makes anyone a good pastor or makes them special in some way. I know a number of pastors who didn't go to seminary and are better pastors than those who did.

I suspect they are not better because they did not go to seminary. They may have been even better if they did go to seminary. Of course what makes a good and bad Pastor can be quite subjective.

[Guest]

I won't be sending him any money. He has a lot of Sun worshipers to send him money. My money needs to stay a little closer to home.

Amen to that brother.

[olger]

You brethren be soundin real good.

g

[Guest]

Awww shucks, it weren't nothin.

[olger]

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

And sorry, Redwood, I don't think that going to Seminary makes anyone a good pastor or makes them special in some way. I know a number of pastors who didn't go to seminary and are better pastors than those who did.

I suspect they are not better because they did not go to seminary. They may have been even better if they did go to seminary. Of course what makes a good and bad Pastor can be quite subjective.

That's quite true. My point is that seminary does not necessarily make one a good pastor, but you are right - it may help make a better one.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I don't really see anything wrong with using that particular material for a discipleship class, but about the dependence on self, all you have to do is pray for the gift of discernment, and read one of his books. You will see it.

Sorry dude, read at least two of his books and haven't seen it. You need to give examples.

Sorry dude. They ain't interested in facts. They would rather spread gossip and rumor. I already asked for the quotes but got no where.

[Guest]

Now look who's spreading gossip, rumor, and, ....dare I say,...falsehood.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Okay... Read Warren's work all you want. All I can tell you is that it wouldn't be good for me with my background.

[Woody]

Now look who's spreading gossip, rumor, and, ....dare I say,...falsehood.

Oh. I'm sorry Richard. Did I miss the post where you quoted from Rick Warren to back up your accusations against him? Please ... just give me the post number so I can look them up and apologize to you personally. Thanks Richard.

[Guest]

try Post #316049

and you're welcome.

[Guest]

Okay... Read Warren's work all you want. All I can tell you is that it wouldn't be good for me with my background.

I understand what you're saying, but there is no reason any SDA should have to drink from the broken cisterns of babylon.

The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines, such as the natural immortality of the soul, the eternal torment of the wicked,...and advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God's holy, sanctified day. These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches. . . . {Ev 365.1}

I was shown the necessity of those who believe we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. ......while they teach error that is poisonous, and death to the soul, and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. And the influence is not good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith he has set us free, and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with those who go to listen to error, when they are not obliged to; {EW 124}

[Woody]

try Post #316049

and you're welcome.

Thanks for the response Richard. But I could find NO documentation or reference that I could check as to where those words came from. As far as I know ... they were your words. Do you just expect us to believe you that Rick stated those words ? Come on. You are a better scholar than that. Provide the references please.

[Guest]

Now you're back pedaling, trying to say those are my words and not his. First you said there wasn't even a post. That's pretty weak, sad even.

Try the link provided by rudywoofs. It will take you there.

[Guest]

Or do I have to go get it myself?

[Woody]

Now you're back pedaling, trying to say those are my words and not his. First you said there wasn't even a post. That's pretty weak, sad even.

Try the link provided by rudywoofs. It will take you there.

That's like saying ... "Oh it's from Ellen White ... go and read her books and you will find it" . Try this ... try that? Come on Richard. When you give a quote it is up to you to provide the reference or we just have to assume it is internet trash.

So, yes. You should look it up and then come back and enlighten us.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

New Age spirituality is essentially the belief that all the world’s religions are identical at the mystical level and therefore there can be unity among them. It is based on the lie that in the “center of your being is a point of nothingness which is untouched by sin … a point of pure truth …(which) is the pure glory of God in us”, and that it in everybody, according to a popular and well know Roman Catholic mystic, Thomas Merton. [vi]

Shockingly, in his best selling books and on his web site, Rick Warren endorses those who promote and practice New Age spirituality, such as panentheism (God is in all things), mysticism, centering prayer, contemplative prayer, and spiritual formations/disciplines (New Age prayer techniques).

For example, In The Purpose Driven Church, Warren refers to many questionable movements as having a “valid message” for the church that God has used to be a “wake-up call” for the church. Among those he endorses are Richard Foster and Dallas Willard, both of whom practice and promote the “Spiritual formations movement.” [vii] In Richard Foster’s popular book, Celebration of Discipline, there are eleven references to Thomas Merton (quoted above) [viii]

http://hbcnyc.org/manuscripts/Rick_Warren.html

[Guest]

Exellent Pam!

She got back with it before I could.

Here's the link to the quote I used.

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/warrenquotes.htm

[Woody]

Richard - First you make the following accusations against Rick Warren:

"He teaches dependence on self, instead of dependence on God."

"Yes. He teaches dependence on self. He says what we need the most is more self esteem, more looking within ourselves for answers. That is not what the Bible teaches. What we really need most is a relationship with Jesus Christ. More dependence on Him, not self."

"It's just another babylonian, money making, feel good religion, that leads millions astray. It looks good if you just glance at it, and don't look to deep. But isn't that the way it is with all of Satan's deceptions?"

Then later you provide the only "quote" you can come up with but yet it is without reference so that the rest of the world can check on it.

Quote:

"I really do feel that these people are brothers and sisters in God's family. I am looking to build bridges with the Orthodox Church, looking to build bridges with the Catholic Church, with the Anglican church."

But even if this was from Rick Warren ... How in the world does it back up your accusations?