Rick Warren ...

[Steve Billiter]

Quote:

The respondents life of sin and rebellion is not addressed, nothing is taught in regards to confession of sin, repentance, and keeping the commandments. These teachings are also given in some churches in Adventism.

Really????

Here's more from Warren's discipleship class. It may not be as in depth as we do it some times. It's not meant to be.

Why then aren't most people really happy? What's the problem?

Here's the problem: Man has a natural desire to be boss and to ignore God's principles for living. You can see this all the time in our society around us. You hear phrases like, "Look out for number one... Do your own thing... If it feels good, do it regardless of what God says." In other words, "It's my life and I'll do what I please" or as the great theologian Frank Sinatra sang, "I did it my way." We want to be our own boss. We don't want God to be our boss. We want to be our own boss. The Bible calls this attitude sin.

In the word "sin", circle the middle letter. The center of sin is "I". I want to do my own thing. I want to be my own boss. I want to live my own life the way I want to regardless of God. The Bible says we've all had this problem.

"All of us like sheep have gone astray and each of us have turned to his own way." Today we'd say, "All of us have gone astray and everybody's done their own thing."

"If we say we never sin we're only fooling ourselves and we refuse to accept the truth."

The sad part is that sin breaks our close relationship to God and it causes us to fear God and to try to live our lives outside His will. It's amazing how most people are afraid of God. If you're standing around talking with a bunch of friends at work and you bring up God, all of a sudden they freeze up. They get nervous. It's because people are afraid of God. Why? Because they want to be their own boss and they know that the relationship between them and God is broken. They may not understand it but they feel it.

What does God want me to do? Four things:

1. Admit. Here's what it means to be a Christian. You may be a church member. You may have known about God all your life. You may have wondered, "Am I really a Christian?" Maybe you've had doubts about it. You can know for sure tonight. I don't want any of you to leave here tonight without knowing for sure that you've settled this issue. First you admit. I admit that God has not been first place in my life and I ask Him to forgive my sins. "If we confess our sins He's faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us from every wrong."

2. Believe. I believe that Jesus Christ died to pay for my sins and that He rose on Easter and is alive today. "If you confess that Jesus is your Lord, and you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Circle the word "will". It doesn't say you might be. It doesn't say you can hope to be. It says you will.

Many Christians go through all their life wondering, "Have I really given my life to Christ? Am I really going to go to heaven?" They doubt their salvation over and over. You need to settle it tonight. If you call on the name of the Lord He says, "I will". God will not lie. It doesn't matter how you feel. Feelings come and go. I stood one day in front of a bunch of people and said two words to Kay that changed my life, "I do". At the time I had no idea what I was doing. The rest of my life I'm working out the implications of those two words, "I do". As Kay and I were driving off on our honeymoon I said, "I don't feel married." She said, "It doesn't matter whether you feel it or not. You're married!"

There are some days I don't feel saved. Does that ever happen to you? There are some days I don't feel like a Christian. Feelings come and go. What matters is God says, "I will save you if you do what I say and invite Me into your heart."

3. Accept God's free gift of salvation. Don't try to earn it. "It is by grace you are saved through faith and it is not of yourselves. It is the gift of God. Not of works so no one could boast." Can you imagine, if you could earn your way to heaven, what a cruddy place heaven would be? If you could earn your way to heaven, everybody up there would be bragging on how they got there. "I got here because I helped a little old lady across the street!" "I got here because I was like Mother Teresa." No, you don't get there on your own effort. You get there just by accepting God's free gift.

Page 8. Our relationship to Christ is not restored by anything we do, but on the basis on what Jesus Christ already did for us on Calvary.

4. Invite Jesus Christ to come into my life and be the director or Lord of my life. Have you seen these stores that say, "Under new management"? I think every new Christian should wear that sign for a month. That's what it means to be a Christian. I'm under new management. No longer am I calling the shots in my life. Jesus Christ is the manager of my life. He's the CEO. He's the President, the boss-man. He's the director of my life

Not meant to be in depth? What is it? Shallow fluff?

Bad theology, Warren left out the main point. Repentance. One can confess their sins till the cows come home but if there's no repentance, there is no forgiveness of sin.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Pro 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whosoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.

Mark 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.

The words of Jesus are very clear, thats why I avoid false teachers.

[Guest]

Yep

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Lazarus, you pinned me down on this one.

I can't talk about my preacher, you might know him. Seriously though, if ever he strays from the straight and narrow, I ask him where he is going? And he does not hesitate to tell me. If I find a problem with his message, I take it to him. I have wept and prayed for the man.

I listen to all the SDA radio and tv preachers when they are on 3ABN or at camp-meeting. In my considered opinion, many of them glow in the sparks of their own kindling.

When I hear one give the gospel, I say amen. And when I feel that they are preaching the talk but not walking the walk, I have been known to discreetly give them a hypothetical challenge. I used to support one ministry with hundreds of dollars that I could not afford, until the preacher gave pablum when he could and should have given real food. He did not want to hear my feedback. I stopped sponsoring his program and it has not been on the air in our area since. Better to have silence than to have half truths.

For clarification. Any SDA that thinks that he/she has to go to the nominal churches to get something that is not available in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy is on dangerous ground. Even if I listen to "Christian radio" or gospel music while driving, I have to be on guard. So whether myself or another, it is not safe to wade through the erroneous literature in search of truth.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com [/quote']

Before I answer specifics, does anyone know who Dr. Walter Vieth is? I believe he has a very good ministry. I have proof that one conference in America wants him to go away.

New Theology (false gospel) teachers are everywhere in Adventism. A great many of those leaders trained in Warren's program.

We also have many good ministries that take the 3 angels messages to the world. Amazing Facts, Back to Enoch, It is Written, the Voice of Prophecy.

[lazarus]

For clarification. Any SDA that thinks that he/she has to go to the nominal churches to get something that is not available in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy is on dangerous ground. Even if I listen to "Christian radio" or gospel music while driving, I have to be on guard. So whether myself or another, it is not safe to wade through the erroneous literature in search of truth.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

I'm not suggesting we have to go to other Christians because the Bible and SOP is not enough. I believe in sola scriptura. The Bible is enough. My point is that there are Christians writers and speakers who have many powerful things to say and correctly interpret scripture on certain subjects.

If I am a preparing a sermon I read many different sources including non-SDA commentaries etc. We always have to be on guard for all that is erroneous. I am speaking against the wholesale condemnation of all that is not SDA. That's all.

[Dr. Shane]

If I am a preparing a sermon I read many different sources including non-SDA commentaries etc. We always have to be on guard for all that is erroneous. I am speaking against the wholesale condemnation of all that is not SDA. That's all.

Preach it to them, brother!

[lazarus]

Bad theology, Warren left out the main point. Repentance. One can confess their sins till the cows come home but if there's no repentance, there is no forgiveness of sin.

Not bad theology at all. Are you saying that Repentance is the main point of the Gospel? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding you. I think you are trying too hard find something to be critical of. Warren didn't use the word repentance but the concept is there.

Warren own words....

6. Changing the way people act is the fruit of repentance. Repentance is not behavioral change; it results in behavioral change. Repentance happens in your mind. That 's why John the Baptist says to produce fruit in keeping with repentance. "I preach that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds" (Acts 26:20).

7. The deepest preaching, bar none, is preaching for repentance. Many preachers are great at interpretation, good at application, but not willing to call for repentance. I preach repentance every Sunday. I talk about "changing your mind" and "paradigm shift." But every message comes down to two words: Will you? "Will you change the way you're thinking?" If you are not preaching repentance, you're not preaching.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2004/winter/14.59.html

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: hch

Legalism abounds but then our prophet foretold that their would be ministers who would preach this and promote it. It is clearly prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes. In the end days ... the issue will be over the issue of legalism. It has already started.

[Woody]

Quote:

I think you are trying too hard find something to be critical of.

That was my impression also.

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: hch

For clarification. Any SDA that thinks that he/she has to go to the nominal churches to get something that is not available in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy is on dangerous ground. Even if I listen to "Christian radio" or gospel music while driving, I have to be on guard. So whether myself or another, it is not safe to wade through the erroneous literature in search of truth.

loudcry.2007@gmail.com

I'm not suggesting we have to go to other Christians because the Bible and SOP is not enough. I believe in sola scriptura. The Bible is enough. My point is that there are Christians writers and speakers who have many powerful things to say and correctly interpret scripture on certain subjects.

If I am a preparing a sermon I read many different sources including non-SDA commentaries etc. We always have to be on guard for all that is erroneous. I am speaking against the wholesale condemnation of all that is not SDA. That's all.

Lazurus

I see contradictory statements in your post, perhaps you just don't realize that.

I read many different sources including non-SDA commentaries etc. We always have to be on guard for all that is erroneous.

You know, I love God's truth, and I wouldn't touch a Sunday commentary with a ten foot pole. First, you have the two great errors, Sunday sacredness and the immortality if the soul, to say nothing of all the errors that you do not find in present truth. You will find Augustinian influences, as well as Calvinism. One of my ways of "staying on guard for error" is to avoid questionable books.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of demons, and the haunt of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

These are false doctrines, this is Babylon, the papacy, and she has daughters, the fallen churches.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Why any Adventist would want to return and stay in Babylon is beyond me, but it is happening on a huge scale.

Sounds like a rejection of the SOP to me.We are commanded to come out of Babylon, not stay in it.(Rev. 18:4) Sure you can find some good things in Sunday oriented commentaries, but I fail to see how any are as good as the 7th day Adventist commentary. However, the best theology is that the Holy Spirit gives, and thats Ellen G. White. No, God did not give her special light on everything in the Bible, but He has His reasons for that. But all she has written is the best light we have.

The lesser light leads to the greater light, the Bible. But a rejection of any prophet the Lord sends is a dangerous thing. What that always means is a rejection of Bible truth, whether Isaiah, John the baptist, or Ellen White.

John the baptist was not a canonical prophet,yet Jesus said about him:

Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction. {4T 211.1}

[Woody]

"The Testimonies of Sister White should not be carried to the front. God's Word is the unerring standard. The Testimonies are not to take the place of the Word of God. . . . Let us prove all our positions from Scripture and substantiate every point they claim from the revealed Word of God" (Evangelism, p. 256).

If the Testimonies speak not according to the word of God, reject them. Christ and Belial cannot be united.--Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 691. {3SM 32.4}

James White stated in the Review and Herald of June 13, 1871:

"They [the Seventh-day Adventists] do not, however, make a belief in this work [Ellen White’s prophetic work] a test of Christian fellowship."

[Steve Billiter]

The SOP is not to be carried to the rear either. There are always those who mis-represent the SOP,picking out choice quotes to "prove" a non-existent point.The point I made was about the SOP itself.It was not used for anything ahead of, or superseding the Bible.

Purpose of the Testimonies.--The Word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most beclouded mind, and

257

may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the Word of God their study, are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the Word that they have neglected to follow. The Word of God abounds in general principles for the formation of correct habits of living, and the Testimonies, general and personal, have been calculated to call their attention more especially to these principles.--Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 663, 664. (1889) {Ev 256.4}

[LifeHiscost]

Yep

Succinct truth, based on the Word. One doesn't have to use many words to prove what is true, to establish Truth. It is self evident.

The problem lies in the reality that too much self is relied upon and evidence to the contrary of Truth is accepted as a result of consciences that are seared, as with a hot iron, despite the earnest efforts of the Holy Spirit to break through the malaise of self-indulgence.

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron..."

1 Timothy 4:1,2 NKJV

Joy!!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Are you saying that people should not read anything besides the Bible? Foster quotes extensively from the Bible as do many other good Christian writers.

Guess we can just trash the ABC . But then Gail would be out of a job. I sure hope that is not what LifeHiscost is promoting.

The information on this particular post had absolutely nothing on it that I posted except my username.

And you are right, Redwood, that was not what I was promoting.

I happen to want Gail to be able to keep working where she is. teehe

Joy!!

[lazarus]

You know, I love God's truth, and I wouldn't touch a Sunday commentary with a ten foot pole.

Sunday commentary? Well, you are on the wrong side of Adventist history since EGW used "Sunday commentaries". I'm sure you know that her personal library included books that were written by Sunday worshipers! Where did you get this position that Ellen White herself did not adopt?

WC White recalls hearing his mother read out loud from d'Aubigné. I don't know if d'Aubigné converted to Adventism before she read his work!

I wonder what Walter Veith Library looks like?

Quote:

One of my ways of "staying on guard for error" is to avoid questionable books

Well you are going to miss out on a lot of history and religious thought. I think your knowledge may be a lot poorer for it

Quote:

However, the best theology is that the Holy Spirit gives, and thats Ellen G. White.

Nope. Not Ellen White. The Bible. I say that as someone who is a Seventh-day Adventist and recently preached a series of apologetic (in the theological sense) sermons and one was upholding the credibility of EGW.

As regards to rejecting ellen White you are arguing against something that has not been suggested.

[Gerr]

Just tagging on.

I have over a dozen commentaries in my Logos software. I have found some information and thought-provoking jewels in some of them. When some of them start talking about the rapture and tribulation, I just gloss over those parts. I find the Pulpit Commentary, Matthew Henry, the New Bible Commentary and a few others quite helpful. I may be biased, but I still find that EGW's commentary still towers above them all.