Character change pre-resurrection?

[Twilight]

How can God change the Character? the character is something that has to be learned over a period of time,so changing it would be to change into robots or back to infants that have learned nothing and have to learn again. Also the circumstances in which those characteristics are learned makes a difference in what they turn out to be. And so even God would have to take time in doing so and were would the Freedom He has given us be then.

Christopher

God changes the character when and only when we give Him permission...

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: christopher

How can God change the Character? the character is something that has to be learned over a period of time,so changing it would be to change into robots or back to infants that have learned nothing and have to learn again. Also the circumstances in which those characteristics are learned makes a difference in what they turn out to be. And so even God would have to take time in doing so and were would the Freedom He has given us be then.

Christopher

God changes the character when and only when we give Him permission...

That's true Mark. And even then He doesn't do it all at one time. As we become willing to heed the word of God, and become teachable, willing to follow wherever it leads, our characters begin to change. Slowly but surely, insomuch that often we don't even percieve the changes. But others around us notice it first.

[Woody]

Good Points Richard. Praise God.

[Guest]

Always good to see you here Woodrow. God is good.

[olger]

og in:

AMEN

og out

[Guest]

Happy Birthday Olger.

[olger]

So you're 50 !!! Don't just stand there ! (at least not without some assistance).

[Guest]

I just turned 51 on may 23.

[Woody]

I just turned 51 on may 23.

Wow. There sure are some old people on this forum.

[Robert]

Good Points Richard. Praise God.

Yeah...good point....And all the time we have salvation "in Christ".

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I just turned 51 on may 23.

Wow. There sure are some old people on this forum.

You should know old man. I am a young 51. I am but an impetuous lad.

[Woody]

You are a 51 year old impetuous old man. YES.

ME? I'm known as a young wipper snapper.

[Guest]

Also I don't think I am as brutally handsome as I once was.

[Woody]

How long ago were you brutal?

[Guest]

It's been a couple years now. My girlfriend back then was terminally pretty.

[olger]

very dapper indeed.

It looks like we three are about the same age. What do you call two buckeyes and a tar heel? A roof patch!

g

[stoney59]

we adventists have grown up with our obsession of obtaining a 'right character' and when we achieve that right character we're 'save to save.' the problem is, as i see it, though we talk of God's love and grace, we nevertheless evaluate our standing based on how we feel we're doing with our character. we work real hard at achieving the 'right character' so God will be pleased. salvation becomes a subtle and beguiling effort at saving ourselves. either Jesus saved us at the cross and resurrection, and it is a free gift, or He didn't. while i was His enemy (hardly the right character) He reconciled me to God (rom. 5:10). the thief on the cross had little time to develop a right character, he only admitted how broken his life was and the Lord promised Him a place in paradise (garden).

my eternity is locked in. thanks to Jesus my future is a done deal. the choices i make in this life determine the quality of life i lead here. there's 'genuine reality' (God's kingdom) based on unselfishness or there's 'false reality' which pivots on selfishness. anytime we judge our eternal progress based on our performance we are looking at self. like the thief on the cross i'm required to be honest at how broken and sinful i am. (honesty is fundamental to any genuine relationship); my savior is Jesus and not my character development. character advancement is important in this life; our free choice, as rotten as it is, helps us enjoy God's principles in a dismantled world, making the best of a world gone mad, but it's His character ALONE hanging on a cross and emerging from a tomb that has and does secure me a place in His kingdom. i am saved! 'character talk' is just more bablyon prattle (legalism) wearing a new shirt and tie.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

God changes the character when and only when we give Him permission...

That's true Mark. And even then He doesn't do it all at one time. As we become willing to heed the word of God, and become teachable, willing to follow wherever it leads, our characters begin to change. Slowly but surely, insomuch that often we don't even percieve the changes. But others around us notice it first.

As I think about this Richard, it is clear to me, that this is what God means when He says He will write His law on our hearts and minds.

He writes them on our heart, the seat of our affections and emotions.

And on our mind, the seat of our thoughts.

He changes our thoughts and feelings literally.

But it is upon condition:

1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We have to "agree" with Him about our sin, we have to "confess" our sins, then God changes our thoughts and feelings, when we accept He will write His law on our hearts and minds by faith.

If we do not confess and repent, He cannot write those laws in our hearts and minds.

So:

Confess and repent.

Accept by faith Gods promise to write His law in us.

Mark :-)

[John317]

Excellent post, Mark. He can only change us as we surrender ourselves to Him. He won't force us to make any changes.

[LifeHiscost]

Luke 12:33

The word "heart" is a metaphor for the desires of the mind. That is character. It is your mind-set.

Thanks, Robert, for that Scripture. Isn't that one of those proof texts taken out of context. Never let it be said that you can't teach an old legalist__errr dog, new tricks. Especially if you use a proof text taken out of context.

" But the path of the just is like the shining sun, that shines ever brighter unto the perfect day."

Proverbs 4:18 NKJV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

If God resurrects us with different characters than we have at death, He will not be resurrecting us. He will be resurrecting somebody else.

Good point. It seems important to remember that it isn't the occasional good deed or bad deed that determines the character, but the trend of the life. When that trend includes asking God to give the gift of repentance, all those bad deeds are gone at the resurrection, washed away by the blood of Jesus, while the good deeds that have formed the character are left, being what God has placed there and so worthy to receive into the kingdom of heaven.

"For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him."Phil 2:13 NLT

Blessings!

[karl]

but it's His character ALONE hanging on a cross and emerging from a tomb that has and does secure me a place in His kingdom. i am saved! 'character talk' is just more bablyon prattle (legalism) wearing a new shirt and tie.

To reverse the question of the disciples, "Who, then, is NOT saved?"

I heard Shelley Quinn at 3ABN Campmeeting do unconscious obeisance to anti-legalism theology this weekend. She said something to the effect that first comes justification which is accomplished exclusively by Christ's atonement, and then obedience (sanctification) is a natural outgrowth of being saved.

Please.

Here are the choices with that theory:

1) Calvinism, in which some were created to be saved and others to be lost, or

2) Universalism, in which all are saved by the atonement of Christ on the cross.

Adventists are to be neither Calvinists nor Universalists.

We believe in cooperative salvation. The "right character" is one that cooperates with the Holy Spirit. God woos and we respond. We give up everything to Christ, accept His everything it its place, and we are justified. And sanctification is moment by moment continuation of justification. It is a process and not a one-time deal. It is a daily cross - a daily battle with the flesh - a daily submission to Christ. It is a process referred to in the Bible as endurance. We are to press on towards the mark. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. Did he believe God one time, or many times? God called him out of the world, just as God calls each one of us out of the world. Was Abraham instantly out of the world? Or was it a journey? We are ON OUR WAY to the promised land. We're not there yet.

We might have our decision sealed in one day, like the thief on the cross, or in many days, like Enoch, but salvation is only guaranteed while we are submitted to Christ.

Judas proved that one can walk with Christ (profess Christianity - be in church every week) and still be lost if he is not submitted to Christ.

If we will to do His will, we shall know of the doctrine. The reason for this is that "will to do His will" IS the doctrine! It's all about the right exercise of the will. This is how people can be saved believing the wrong thing (ie William Miller.)

God does not supply the "willing" for us. He does the wooing, but we must respond, "Lord I believe, help thou mine unbelief." And as we exercise that little bit of willing (faith) God supplies more power to will and to do of His good pleasure. Thus we work out our salvation with God. And HE is ABLE to keep us from falling.

If we fall, whose fault is it? If God is able to keep us from falling (and not willing that any should perish) there has to be a reason why people perish. Why is it? It is because they DON'T keep themselves under, lest having preached the gospel they themselves should become reprobate.

The Bible is clear that we can forfeit salvation. It is also clear that God doesn't want us to do this. Satan wants us to neglect so great salvation, and constantly he suggests that we cannot or should not obey God. God is for us, Satan against us, and we have the deciding vote each day, or each minute of each day. Shall we continue the stern battle to "keep under" our inherited and cultivated tendencies to sin? Or shall we exclaim that nothing can be done about these things and that we're just doomed to act like the lost even though we are saved? Romans 6,7,8. Who shall deliver me? I thank God through Jesus Christ.

The battle with the flesh will not end until Jesus comes and gives us glorified flesh. We must press on toward the mark of the high calling of Jesus Christ our Lord. Absent this effort we are not seeking the Lord, and none of us will arrive at a place we are not headed toward.

Our sins are removed from us as far as the east is from the west. Sounds like a long way until you consider that the east and the west both start where you are. We are separated from our sins by the DIRECTION we are headed.

[LifeHiscost]

I agree, but is there anything from Scripture which tells us this? Or is it something we simply need to infer?

I don't know if everyone would agree that these texts are the proof in the pudding, but they satisfy me.

"For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."Romans 8:13 NKJV

Again it would seem to be important to recognize the need for the yoking of the soul to Jesus.

"I am the vine, ye the branches; he who is remaining in me, and I in him, this one doth bear much fruit, because apart from me ye are not able to do anything;"

John 15:5 YLT

"...the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." Colossians 1:26-28 NKJV

Blessings!

[pnattmbtc]

to think our puny, defiled and broken power of choice can thwart the desires of the Almighty...me thinks we've got too much descartes and kant in our thinking, and our God is too weak. we place way too much power and importance on our ability to choose.

Surely if it were up to God, everyone would be saved. If it's not possible for our power of choice to thwart the desires of the Almighty, how can we explain what this world is like? Surely this world doesn't reflect God's will!

[Woody]

we adventists have grown up with our obsession of obtaining a 'right character' and when we achieve that right character we're 'save to save.' the problem is, as i see it, though we talk of God's love and grace, we nevertheless evaluate our standing based on how we feel we're doing with our character. we work real hard at achieving the 'right character' so God will be pleased. salvation becomes a subtle and beguiling effort at saving ourselves. either Jesus saved us at the cross and resurrection, and it is a free gift, or He didn't. while i was His enemy (hardly the right character) He reconciled me to God (rom. 5:10). the thief on the cross had little time to develop a right character, he only admitted how broken his life was and the Lord promised Him a place in paradise (garden).

my eternity is locked in. thanks to Jesus my future is a done deal. the choices i make in this life determine the quality of life i lead here. there's 'genuine reality' (God's kingdom) based on unselfishness or there's 'false reality' which pivots on selfishness. anytime we judge our eternal progress based on our performance we are looking at self. like the thief on the cross i'm required to be honest at how broken and sinful i am. (honesty is fundamental to any genuine relationship); my savior is Jesus and not my character development. character advancement is important in this life; our free choice, as rotten as it is, helps us enjoy God's principles in a dismantled world, making the best of a world gone mad, but it's His character ALONE hanging on a cross and emerging from a tomb that has and does secure me a place in His kingdom. i am saved! 'character talk' is just more bablyon prattle (legalism) wearing a new shirt and tie.

Thank you Stoned ... Good thoughts.