Remnantitis

[Gerr]

I didn't suggest anything, only quoted Scripture. Why did you conclude that?

Agape`

If I had made a conclusion, I wouldn't be asking.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If you go back and read the OT, the "any work" prohibition was not as absolute as you would like to make it appear. The priests did their sanctuary work. They circumcised babies even on the Sabbath. They took oxen out of ditches. And Jesus point was, if babies could be circumcized, and if oxen could be taken out of ditches, were they more important than a sick person?

I did not make it appear anything, nor would I like to make it appear anything. I simply quoted Scripture that answered your inquiry. Regardless of the allowances made in the ceremonial portion of the Torah, the fourth of the Ten Commandments states "any work". Also, the Scripture tells us that "God spoke all these words". When Jesus was confronted about working on the Sabbath, He said, "...I myself am working". Thus, Jesus contradicted God's word with His own (see post #390061).

Agape`

Jesus confuses the matter even more by claiming;"I do nothing of Myself;but as my Father taught Me,I speak these things."And;"The words I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority;but the Father who dwells within me does the works." So who are we to believe,Jesus or God? Or is the voice of God completely unintelligible?

[Overaged]

Well; Jesus is God. God is Jesus. That settles it for me.

I think the time for the orchestrators of this thread has come for them to provide a definition for the word "Remnantitis" as used in this topic.

I think it will be clearly seen that they do not have a Biblical leg to stand on.

[teresaq]

Miracles are NEVER to be accepted as the evidence for truth. The devil can perform miracles too. God does not contradict His own word.

oh, i dont know... a changed life is certainly a miracle...im not speaking of a person who is bare-knuckling it, but a truly changed person that shows in their life...

[WayneV]

Originally Posted By: WayneV

I didn't suggest anything, only quoted Scripture. Why did you conclude that?

Agape`

If I had made a conclusion, I wouldn't be asking.

All I did was quote Scripture and you asked if I was suggesting something. If there was a suggestion visible there, the suggestion was inherent in the Holy Writ, not made by me.

Agape`

[WayneV]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Miracles are NEVER to be accepted as the evidence for truth. The devil can perform miracles too. God does not contradict His own word.

oh, i dont know... a changed life is certainly a miracle...im not speaking of a person who is bare-knuckling it, but a truly changed person that shows in their life...

Also, wasn't it Jesus Christ Himself who said that the miracles He performed testified as to His identity? See John 10:25

Agape`

[teresaq]

I think the time for the orchestrators of this thread has come for them to provide a definition for the word "Remnantitis" as used in this topic.

I think it will be clearly seen that they do not have a Biblical leg to stand on.

im not sure about that. ive been on these forums long enough to have seen that there is some basis for the op.

i dont believe the point is about those who believe there will be a remnant...but about those who seem to be fixated...limited, if you will...

[phkrause]

GP, I guess now it comes down to what each one of us thinks work is? When a Pastor gets up to preach on Sabbath, is he working? The Jews believe turning on lights is working! They believe turning on the stove is work, etc. When Jesus says he's doing his Father's business on the Sabbath what does that mean to us? There's no way I personally believe that that is working on the Sabbath!! Its exactly as Christ calls it, his Fathers business! Which is what pastors do on the Sabbath, etc. I also don't believe that Jesus by saying I'm doing my Father's business was contradicing God for one minute. But again each one of us must determine what we believe work means to us.

[whatisthis]

For me the question is, "What is rest in Jesus, and how can I enjoy the most of this I can have!"

[Gerr]

Also, wasn't it Jesus Christ Himself who said that the miracles He performed testified as to His identity? See John 10:25

Agape`

Here's what Jn 10:25 says:

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, ESV\

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me-NASB

I realize that the NIV uses "miracle" for works, but the Greek word is "ergon" which is properly translated "works." While Christ's works certainly included miracles, that was not what defined His works or ministry. When Jesus tried to show the two disciples on the road to Emmaus who the Messiah was, He did not remind them of the miracles; He proved it from the Scriptures, "..beginning with Moses and all the prophets...".

[Overaged]

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

[While admittedly your hypothetical was over the top, the point is that many good, devoted Adventists will not believe it is Jesus returning in the clouds before their very own eyes if for example that coming is not preceded by Sunday laws and specific persecution direct at them personally because they go to Church on Saturday instead of Sunday.

But as Jesus said, in the final analysis (judgment if you prefer), it will all boil down to a cup of cold water for a thirsty person... And many will miss that opportunity because they are too busy preaching on the Sabbath.

Seems you're suggesting that Jesus missed it when asked which commandment was the greatest? You're not saying that the commandment to feed the poor is more important to God than the command to honor His holy day, are you??

I suggested no such thing. I was not referencing his answer to what was the greatest commandment. And likewise for you second question, I was not the one that spoke of the judgment as hinging on how we treat one another. Jesus did. And in that reference to the judgemnt he didn't include compliance with other commandments. Read Matthew 25:31-46.

But I will suggest to you now in answer to your second question, that relative importance is irrelevant because the two commandments are one and the same. To honor His holy day, feed the hungry, give water to the thirsty, clothe the naked, comfort the distressed, heal the sick... That is what Jesus did.

[Tom Wetmore]

Remnantitis: a chronic affliction found in some historic Adventists. This chronic condition prevents Adventists from seeing big things and thinking big thoughts when we think about The Kingdom of God.

(Seen in Facebook, posted as a status)

Some have asked for a definition. I think it is implied by the description already given. It is the condition of being afflicted with small-mindedness; pettiness; a narrow parocial focus; an inability to see the big picture - "Can't see the forest for the trees."

[abelisle]

I believe that the one question that will be asked of us is not "Are you a member of the remnant?" but "What did you do for the poor?"

Alex

[WayneV]

Originally Posted By: WayneV

Also, wasn't it Jesus Christ Himself who said that the miracles He performed testified as to His identity? See John 10:25

Agape`

I realize that the NIV uses "miracle" for works, but the Greek word is "ergon" which is properly translated "works." While Christ's works certainly included miracles, that was not what defined His works or ministry. When Jesus tried to show the two disciples on the road to Emmaus who the Messiah was, He did not remind them of the miracles; He proved it from the Scriptures, "..beginning with Moses and all the prophets...".

Wow! Lemme see if I have this right:

(1)fccool gives a hypothetical that has God returning to earth and performing miracles to testify to His identity (see post 389863). (2)You respond, basically, that miracles are not to be relied upon to recognize God. Instead, Scripture is what testifies to God's identity. (3)I comment, in a reply to someone else, that Jesus said that Jesus' miracles testified to His identity--by His own word. (4)You respond that it was Jesus' "works", not His miracles, but that miracles would certainly be included in "works". At the same time, you seem to be taking issue with what I said. Perhaps I was being too narrow by not recognizing Jesus' other "works"??? Then, however, you appear to take issue with the passage itself by indicating (once again, the superiority of Scripture as testimony?) that Jesus showed who He was by using Scripture.

Have I got this right so far? I will respond after I see you affirmation or clarification.

Agape`

[Overaged]

Name one person that has "remnantitis"

[Overaged]

Now I am starting to see the "big picture" here. After some investigation; I see that this term "remnantitis" has been parotted from Richard & Colleen Tinker's website/forum. That explains it all.

To me; information about what we really believe cannot possibly come from such anti-Adventist cults.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

If that is the case; then I am sure the OP will enlighten us. But they are giving a mixed and confusing message, and I would like to hear it from them.

And what do you mean "fixated?" Is it wrong to have our eyes FIXED on Jesus? "Fixated" on what? [/quote']apparently you have not come across those who can only discuss the remnant and seem to know, or care about, little else, except someones error. i should say, what these "infallibles" perceive as error. that always seems to be a favorite with them...

those particular people would have to have their eyes fixed on Jesus for your question to have any relevancy...

if you havent come across these people, im not going to argue back and forth as to whether they exist or not. :)

[Overaged]

Quote:

And what do you mean "fixated?" Is it wrong to have our eyes FIXED on Jesus? "Fixated" on what?

Well; I agree, I don't want to argue either; but to be frank; all I was asking for is what you meant by what you said. There should be no problem to explain that further; by answering my questions about what you mean when you say it's wrong to be "fixated" and to not see "the big picture?"

I do know some of what you seem to be saying here; except I would add that those who are so concerned about "error," and only talk about that are usually too engrossed in it to know anything about the remnant. So it does not follow that they would have "remnantitis." It is not wrong to be convicted by the Holy Spirit - through God's Word, that there is a remnant of Bible prophecy and history.

The Adventist doctrine of the remnant, correctly understood IS THE BIG PICTURE.

[Guest]

The Adventist doctrine of the remnant, correctly understood IS THE BIG PICTURE.

Amen

[Gerr]

Wow! Lemme see if I have this right:

(1)fccool gives a hypothetical that has God returning to earth and performing miracles to testify to His identity (see post 389863). (2)You respond, basically, that miracles are not to be relied upon to recognize God. Instead, Scripture is what testifies to God's identity. (3)I comment, in a reply to someone else, that Jesus said that Jesus' miracles testified to His identity--by His own word. (4)You respond that it was Jesus' "works", not His miracles, but that miracles would certainly be included in "works". At the same time, you seem to be taking issue with what I said. Perhaps I was being too narrow by not recognizing Jesus' other "works"??? Then, however, you appear to take issue with the passage itself by indicating (once again, the superiority of Scripture as testimony?) that Jesus showed who He was by using Scripture.

Have I got this right so far? I will respond after I see you affirmation or clarification.

Agape`

Yep. The devil can perform miracles too. Will even call fire from heaven. But in no way was I suggesting you are being too narrow. What I was taking issue with is the use of miracles to recognize God rather than the testimony of His word.

[Gerr]

I'm beginning to see a picture: anything peculiarly Adventist seems to be an affliction. Like Sabbathitis, investigative judgmentitis, vegetariantitis, country livingtitis. Did I miss anything?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm beginning to see a picture: anything peculiarly Adventist seems to be an affliction. Like Sabbathitis, investigative judgmentitis, vegetariantitis, country livingtitis. Did I miss anything?

antipopetitis

[Gerr]

Yeah, I missed that one. Thank you.

[fccool]

Quote:

It is not wrong to be convicted by the Holy Spirit - through God's Word, that there is a remnant of Bible prophecy and history.

There's nothing wrong with striving to be that remnant by following a certain practices.

There's nothing problematic with the statement:

"We are a church that strives to be the remnant of God in the last days"

But the statement is rather:

"We ARE the remnant of God. No question about it! Here's the proof from the Bible"

If we are remnant, then it would mean a lot more than going around giving prophecy seminars about how we are remnant and people should join us because Christ is coming soon . It's rather self-serving, don't you think?

If WANT TO BE a remnant, then we should abide in love and commandments with attitude of humility that underline both love and commandments. Unfortunately, I don't see such attitude underlining our church... neither do my unsaved friends do. Then... GOD DETERMINES who is remnant and who is not. Not our self-inclusion in such group.

That's why Christ said that you will know them by their love. It's hard to know anything outside of love. Love is the only thing that's certain. Everything else is rather fake.

I KNOW when people truly love me and when they are fake. I KNOW when people are hard on me when they love me, or when they hard on me because they want me to be a carbon copy of themselves.

Remnant loves... not merely observes the Sabbath. Sabbath without love is just a clock ticking.

So, if you want one sign of remnanatis, that would be proud self-inclusion of oneself in the group of "remnant people" without following the attitude of love and service that underline such group.