LifeHiscost Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 The writer's whole purpose is to convince the reader that he's reading straight reporting. Many of the writers of the 19th century did the same thing, particularly those of the realist school of fiction: Turgeniff, Tolstoy, Flaubert, Stendhal, Balzac, Proust, Twain, & Stephen Crane. Dreiser, Lewis, F. Scott Fitzgerald, John Dos Passos, Issac Babel, and Ernest Hemingway did the same in the 20th century. And the most illustrious (or should I say notorious) is planning a bestseller. "But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve."2 Corinthians 11:14-16 NLT God blesses! Lift Jesus up!!
Kountzer Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Look at it this way. The most intelligent & erudite human is no match for t he powers of darkness. Youhave biographies that show the lives that many secular fiction writers have led. Quite often there is little evidence that these people lived following the Spirit of God. Maybe they started off in church, but they usually broke from that to live in adventure. They read a lot of fiction themselves and are smart enough to develop a talent for writing themselves. They write some literary classic that is hailed by secular humanistic professors as a classic. But the adversary uses all that to sway impressionable minds away from a knowledge of the bible. I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
IreneFaye Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Look at it this way. The most intelligent & erudite human is no match for t he powers of darkness. Youhave biographies that show the lives that many secular fiction writers have led. Quite often there is little evidence that these people lived following the Spirit of God. Maybe they started off in church, but they usually broke from that to live in adventure. They read a lot of fiction themselves and are smart enough to develop a talent for writing themselves. They write some literary classic that is hailed by secular humanistic professors as a classic. But the adversary uses all that to sway impressionable minds away from a knowledge of the bible. I don't like to judge people, and I don't like people who judge people too. I'm a fiction writer and I'm a bit offended by what you said (I almost cry when I read this). I've write some secular fiction, but never did I walk away from GOD. I did read fiction a lot but I never feel like they're dragging me away from GOD, most of the time it even strengthen my bond with GOD--since I always read the book open mindedly, and put down my critics on them based on my clear mind. Here's what I thought about those writer who you said walk away from GOD: From beginning they don't understand the Truth, and then they throw them self to the secular world, and then drown. They don't have the truth in them to make them float, and swim, that's why they're being misled in the end, but actually, this was the biography of the story writer who had their life story written in a books, and how many of them it is? I'd say it's very little, there're a bunch of other who stay to their heart and still staying in GOD's way (and I believe will be upset when they read this too). And that's what strengthen my bond with God, since after I read their work, there's a feeling in my heart that makes me want to help them. For you who writes fiction, if you don't want to be dragged away, then don't ever forget your bible. I have to tell you, even for the Fantasy writer like me, bible is a very important source. You can almost find good inspiration in bible--since it filled with some raw inspiration that can be changed into a good story (Even though, it's hard to makes it turn into a story that people will realized come from the scripture). And bible is the best source of name. Sorry, I'm being off topic, but seriously, we're talking about the connection between fiction and the bible in this threats, you shouldn't have to go talking about the fiction's writers them self. Coz we really didn't have the right to judge them. It's GOD and GOD only that had been given the right to judge people, and we as human has only the right to help the people that we thought had been misled--without judging them first.
ClubV12 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Irene, many people fall away from God at some point in their lives. Some of them even write fiction, that is no reflection on you personally. The devil has a snare set for us no matter what we do in life.
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Irene, many people fall away from God at some point in their lives. Some of them even write fiction, that is no reflection on you personally. The devil has a snare set for us no matter what we do in life. IreneFaye ... please don't take these mean posts seriously. I do hope you are not offended to badly. Wipe off the tears and get pen in hand. Go in peace. :) May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
skyblue888 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Irene, my suggestion would be that you turn to the Comprehensive Index to the Writngs of E.G. White and look up "Fiction" sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Irene, my suggestion would be that you turn to the Comprehensive Index to the Writngs of E.G. White and look up "Fiction" sky Reading out of context tid bits would only be a dis-service. IreneFaye - I would stick with the Bible. :) May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
ClubV12 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Not true Woody, many times the counsel stands on it's own and no "context" is required. The same can be said for large portions of the bible as well. Truth, is truth. In addition it may be impossible to grasp the context of any given quote. If you think context is needful in that case, you can throw it out, a quote from EGW or the bible. Their origination is from the same source, the Holy Spirit. Sky's advice, seek out EGW comments on the subject, is right on target.
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Quote: Not true Woody, many times the counsel stands on it's own and no "context" is required. Please ... tell me which quotes you theorize that to be true so that when I come across them ... I will know. Quote: If you think context is needful in that case, you can throw it out, a quote from EGW or the bible. Their origination is from the same source, the Holy Spirit. The Spirit influences my posts also. But I would not pass them off as scripture. Neither did EGW pass off her posts as scripture. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
ClubV12 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Woody, the counsel of Ellen White is vast. The number of specific quotes that can stand alone are also vast. It would be FAR easier to find a quote that NEEDS "context" than to find the very many that don't. Read EGW like you would the bible is one way to say it. Compare scripture to scripture, quote for quote. How many bible verses require "context", out of ALL the verses in the bible? Very few, compared to those that can "stand alone".
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Quote: It would be FAR easier to find a quote that NEEDS "context" than to find the very many that don't. Cool. now I can quote away without fear. So often when I quote her ... I hear the cons here crying - Context CONTEXT But from now on when I hear them crying this ... I can quote you. With your permission of course. I suspect that you don't feel it needs context as long as U are doing the quoting. But if "I" was doing the quoting ... U would cry foul. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
ClubV12 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 "It is often urged that in order to win the youth from sensaÂtional or worthless literature, we should supply them with a better class of fiction.... The only safety for the inebriate, and the only safeguard for the temperate man, is total abstiÂnence. For the lover of fiction the same rule holds true. Total abstinence is his only safety." Ministry of Healing p. 446. Context required for this quote? The context is supplied within the quote. The conditions of those who may require total abstinence is spelled out. If the shoe fits, wear it! If not, then proceed, with all due caution as warranted by the counsel. Total abstinence may not apply to you, or me, or Irene. One must search his heart, as he would when reading a bible verse, to see how it applies to your life.
CoAspen Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 I'm confused...when did EGW become our dictionery also? It seems way to many people can not find the loo with out first getting out the red books!!
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 "It is often urged that in order to win the youth from sensaÂtional or worthless literature, we should supply them with a better class of fiction.... The only safety for the inebriate, and the only safeguard for the temperate man, is total abstiÂnence. For the lover of fiction the same rule holds true. Total abstinence is his only safety." Ministry of Healing p. 446. Context required for this quote? The context is supplied within the quote. The conditions of those who may require total abstinence is spelled out. If the shoe fits, wear it! If not, then proceed, with all due caution as warranted by the counsel. Total abstinence may not apply to you, or me, or Irene. One must search his heart, as he would when reading a bible verse, to see how it applies to your life. Context Please. Please. If not ... I have a bicycle to sell you. Let's compare apples with apples. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 I'm confused...when did EGW become our dictionery also? It seems way to many people can not find the loo with out first getting out the red books!! Yes CoA. That has been my experience when doing a survey of local loos. Speaking of loos. I actually think that loos are a good place for her writings ... the way some here use them. Better not to have them than to have them the way they are abused. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 For those of you who believe in context: May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
ClubV12 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 The above Ministry of Healing quote is clear, plain and pointed. The alcoholic, or an intemperate person struggling with a habit or personal problem (like say, drug, pornography, etc.) needs to totally abstain in order to gain victory. If a person has the same affliction as it regards the reading of fiction (and I know some people that are like that) the solution is the same, total abstinence. This concept, avoiding the "triggers" to your "phobia" are well understood by modern medicine. It is the very basis of alcoholics anonymous. The counsel in every case, stands alone, the "cure" for overcoming the habit is made plain. If the shoe fits, wear it. The "context" is dealing with an addiction.
CoAspen Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 For those of you who believe in context: (taking a breath)
ClubV12 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 If the above quote was to complicated for some to understand, lets try a simpler one. Or, is it the consensus of this forum that EGW quotes should be readily dismissed and denigrated to the dust bin of history? Acknowledging the inspiration of EGW but denying the power thereof? Quote #2 "Even fiction which contains no suggestion of impurity, and which may be intended to teach excellent principles, is harmful. It encourages the habit of hasty and superficial reading merely for the story. Thus it tends to destroy the power of connected and vigorous thought; it unfits the soul to contemplate the great problems of duty and destiny." Ministry of Healing, page 446 No context required here either, the counsel is either true or false. So, which is it? I'm sure there are a number of learned educators and pschologists that can see the wisdom in the above principle.
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 If the above quote was to complicated for some to understand, lets try a simpler one. Or, is it the consensus of this forum that EGW quotes should be readily dismissed and denigrated to the dust bin of history? Acknowledging the inspiration of EGW but denying the power thereof? Quote #2 "Even fiction which contains no suggestion of impurity, and which may be intended to teach excellent principles, is harmful. It encourages the habit of hasty and superficial reading merely for the story. Thus it tends to destroy the power of connected and vigorous thought; it unfits the soul to contemplate the great problems of duty and destiny." Ministry of Healing, page 446 No context required here either, the counsel is either true or false. So, which is it? I'm sure there are a number of learned educators and pschologists that can see the wisdom in the above principle. What kind of fiction was she referring to and under what circumstances? What was her definition of fiction? Was this for just her time or ours'? Was this merely just her opinion at the time of writing it or did she grow in her experience and find a more mature opinion? Was this merely HER opinion or was it given directly from God? IOWs did she state "I was shown" prior to this statement? If not ... then I have to ask ... did she herself use fiction? If she did ... then what impact does this have on the theory that she opposed fiction? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
skyblue888 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Under "fiction" "After reading these books, the mind lives in an unreal world, and the life, so far as usefulness is concerned, is as barren as a fruitless tree. The brain is intoxicated, making it impossible for the eternal realities, which are essential for the present and the future, to be pressed home. A mind educated to feed upon trash is unable to see in the word of God the beauty that is there. Love for Jesus and inclination to righteousness are lost; for the mind is built up from that upon which it feeds. By feeding the mind upon exciting stories of fiction, man is bringing to the foundation 'wood, hay, stubble.' He loses a taste for the divine Guide-book, and cares not to study the character he must form in order to dwell with the redeemed host, and inhabit the mansions which Christ has gone to prepare." Fundamentals of Christian Education, p.452. sky "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Quote: "After reading these books" Which books was she referring to? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
skyblue888 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 "After reading these books, the mind lives in an unreal world, and the life, so far as usefulness is concerned, is as barren as a fruitless tree. The brain is intoxicated, making it impossible for the eternal realities, which are essential for the present and the future, to be pressed home. A mind educated to feed upon trash is unable to see in the word of God the beauty that is there. Love for Jesus and inclination to righteousness are lost; for the mind is built up from that upon which it feeds. By feeding the mind upon exciting stories of fiction, man is bringing to the foundation 'wood, hay, stubble.' He loses a taste for the divine Guide-book, and cares not to study the character he must form in order to dwell with the redeemed host, and inhabit the mansions which Christ has gone to prepare." Fundamentals of Christian Education, p.452. "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Woody Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Quote: After reading these books which books? May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
skyblue888 Posted April 13, 2011 Posted April 13, 2011 Under "fiction" "But these very youth who profess to be Christians gratify the desires of the carnal heart in following their own inclinations; and God-given probationary time, granted them to become acquainted with the precious truths of the Bible, is devoted to the reading of fictitious tales. This habit once formed is difficult to overcome; but it can be done, it must be done by all who are candidates for the heavenly world. That mind is ruined which is allowed to be absorbed in story-reading. The imagination becomes diseased, sentimentalism takes possession of the mind, and there is a vague unrest, a strange appetite for unwholesome mental food, which is constantly unbalancing the mind. Thousands are today in the insane asylum whose minds became unbalanced by novel reading, which results in air-castle building and love-sick sentimentalism." Messages to Young People, p.290. "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
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