The Bible and Fiction

[Woody]

I give up. If people want to believe in fantasy when reading EGW ... let it b

[CoAspen]

Tagging on,

That mind is ruined which is allowed to be absorbed in story-reading. The imagination becomes diseased, sentimentalism takes possession of the mind, and there is a vague unrest, a strange appetite for unwholesome mental food, which is constantly unbalancing the mind. Thousands are today in the insane asylum whose minds became unbalanced by novel reading, which results in air-castle building and love-sick sentimentalism."

I think if she were alive today that statement would be corrected, 'thousands'! Don't know what she was thinking about or where she got her information, but doubt if it were true even in her day! Sounds like an indignant moment! And, yes, we would need to know just exactly what 'books' she was talking about.

So, final analysis, would I take the above statement, as is, and use it a reason not to read a fictional book? NO, unequivocally, NO.

(okay, bring on your hell fire and brimstone)

[skyblue888]

One more:

Under "fiction"

"Could a large share of the books published be consumed, a plague would be stayed that is doing a fearful work upon mind and heart. Love stories, frivolous and exciting tales, and even that class of books called religious novels,--books in which the author attaches to his story a moral lesson,--are a curse to the readers. Religious sentiments may be woven all through a story-book, but, in most cases, Satan is but clothed in angel-robes, the more effectively to deceive and allure. None are so confirmed in right principles, none so secure from tempation, that they are safe in reading these stories.

The readers of fiction are indulging an evil that destroys spirituality, eclipsing the beauty of the sacred page. It creates an unhealthy excitement, fever the imagination, unfits the mind for usefulness, weans the soul from prayer, and disqualifies it for any spiritual exercise." Messages to Young People, p.272.

sky

[Woody]

Quote:

okay, bring on your hell fire and brimstone

Haven't U had Enough?

How much more consumed can one B ?

[ClubV12]

The counsel is written in plain and easy to understand language. You could philosphize yourself right out of understanding it if you try hard enough.

What kind of fiction?

The context is, again, supplied within the quote, there is no mystery here;

"...fiction which contains no suggestion of impurity, and which may be intended to teach excellent principles,..."

The principles haven't and will never change. They applied to Moses as much as they apply to us and to our current and future children.

[Woody]

Quote:

What kind of fiction?

The question was :

Quote:

"Which BOOKS"

When she says "these books" what books is she referring to?

You continue to assume they are the kind of books you want to assume. That is why context is important.

[SivartM]

Ellen White promoted the reading of fictitious works.

[ClubV12]

You have the counsel of the prophet, inspired by God, revealing to man that which was revealed to her. Though one rose from the dead you would not believe them anymore than you choose not to believe her.

I find no fault with this quote either, the counsel is plain, the wording is simple, you either believe it to be true, or you don't.

"Thousands are today in the insane asylum whose minds became unbalanced by novel reading, which results in air-castle building and love-sick sentimentalism."

Which books? FICTION BOOKS!

[Woody]

Was this written down somewhere?

And if so ... was it preceded with the words "And I was shown"?

[John317]

Not hell-fire and brim-stone, but the counsels of a godly woman who was a genuine prophet of God, commissioned by Jesus Christ as His messenger when she was 17 years old.

On the subject of fiction and novels, she wrote the following:

Quote:

No effort should be spared to establish right habits of study. If the mind wanders, bring it back. If the intellectual

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and moral tastes have been perverted by over-wrought and exciting tales of fiction so that there is a disinclination to apply the mind, there is a battle to be fought to overcome this habit. A love for fictitious reading should be overcome at once. Rigid rules should be enforced to hold the mind in the proper channel. {AH 411.4}

Avoid Cultivating Taste for Fiction.--What shall our children read? This is a serious question and one that demands a serious answer. It troubles me to see in Sabbathkeeping families periodicals and newspapers containing continued stories which leave no impressions for good on the minds of children and youth. I have watched those whose taste for fiction was thus cultivated. They have had the privilege of listening to the truth, of becoming acquainted with the reasons of our faith; but they have grown to maturer years destitute of true piety and practical godliness. {AH 412.1}

The readers of fiction are indulging an evil that destroys spirituality, eclipsing the beauty of the sacred page. {AH 412.2}

Prevalence of Harmful Books.--The world is deluged with books that might better be consumed than circulated. Books on sensational topics, published and circulated as a money-making scheme, might better never be read by the youth. There is a satanic fascination in such books. . . . {AH 412.3}

The practice of story reading is one of the means employed by Satan to destroy souls. It produces a false, unhealthy excitement, fevers the imagination, unfits the mind for usefulness, and disqualifies it for any spiritual exercise. It weans the soul from prayer and from the love of spiritual things.

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{AH 412.4}

Works of romance, frivolous, exciting tales, are, in hardly less degree, a curse to the reader. The author may profess to teach a moral lesson; throughout his work he may interweave religious sentiments, but often these serve only to veil the folly and worthlessness beneath. {AH 413.1}

Infidel Authors.--Another source of danger against which we should be constantly on guard is the reading of infidel authors. Such works are inspired by the enemy of truth, and no one can read them without imperiling the soul. It is true that some who are affected by them may finally recover; but all who tamper with their evil influence place themselves on Satan's ground, and he makes the most of his advantage. As they invite his temptations, they have not wisdom to discern or strength to resist them. With a fascinating, bewitching power unbelief and infidelity fasten themselves upon the mind. {AH 413.2}

Myths and Fairy Tales.--In the education of children and youth fairy tales, myths, and fictitious stories are now given a large place. Books of this character are used in schools, and they are to be found in many homes. How can Christian parents permit their children to use books so filled with falsehood? When the children ask the meaning of stories so contrary to the teaching of their parents, the answer is that the stories are not true; but this does not do away with the evil results of their use. The ideas presented in these books mislead the children. They impart false views of life and beget and foster a desire for the unreal. . . . {AH 413.3}

Never should books containing a perversion of truth be placed in the hands of children or youth. Let not our children, in the very process of obtaining an education, receive ideas that will prove to be seeds of sin.

...Exciting Reading Makes Restless, Dreamy Child.-- Readers of frivolous, exciting tales become unfitted for the duties of practical life. They live in an unreal world. I have watched children who have been allowed to make a practice of reading such stories. Whether at home or abroad, they were restless, dreamy, unable to converse except upon the most commonplace subjects. Religious thought and conversation was entirely foreign to their minds. With the cultivation of an appetite for sensational stories the mental taste is perverted, and the mind is not satisfied unless fed upon this unwholesome food. I can think of no more fitting name for those who indulge in such reading than mental inebriates. Intemperate habits of reading have an effect upon the brain similar to that which intemperate habits of eating and drinking have upon the body. {AH 414.3}

Before accepting the present truth, some had formed the habit of novel reading. Upon uniting with the church, they made an effort to overcome this habit. To place before this class reading similar to that which they have discarded is like offering intoxicants to the inebriate. Yielding

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to the temptation continually before them, they soon lose their relish for solid reading. They have no interest in Bible study. Their moral power becomes enfeebled. Sin appears less and less repulsive. There is manifest an increasing unfaithfulness, a growing distaste for life's practical duties. As the mind becomes perverted, it is ready to grasp any reading of a stimulating character. Thus the way is open for Satan to bring the soul fully under his domination. {AH 414.4}

Hasty, Superficial Reading Weakens Power of Concentration.--With the immense tide of printed matter constantly pouring from the press, old and young form the habit of reading hastily and superficially, and the mind loses its power of connected and vigorous thought. Furthermore, a large share of the periodicals and books that, like the frogs of Egypt, are overspreading the land are not merely commonplace, idle, and enervating, but unclean and degrading. Their effect is not merely to intoxicate and ruin the mind, but to corrupt and destroy the soul. {AH 415.1}

Messages to Youth on Objectives in Reading.--As I see the danger that threatens the youth from improper reading, I cannot forbear to present still further the warnings given me in regard to this great evil. {AH 416.1}

The harm that results to the workers from handling matter of an objectionable character is too little realized. Their attention is arrested and their interest aroused by the subject matter with which they are dealing. Sentences are imprinted in the memory. Thoughts are suggested. Almost unconsciously the reader is influenced by the spirit of the writer, and mind and character receive an impress for evil. There are some who have little faith and little power of self-control, and it is difficult for them to banish the thoughts suggested by such literature. {AH 416.2}

Oh, that the young would reflect upon the influence which exciting stories have upon the mind! Can you, after such reading, open the word of God and read the words of life with interest? Do you not find the book of God uninteresting? The charm of that love story is upon the mind, destroying its healthy tone and making it impossible for you to fix your mind upon the important, solemn truths which concern your eternal interest. You sin against your parents in devoting to such a poor purpose the time which belongs to them, and you sin against God in thus using the time which should be spent in devotion to Him. {AH 416.3}

Children, I have a message for you. You are now deciding your future destiny, and your character building is of that kind which will exclude you from the Paradise of God. . . . How sad it is for Jesus, the world's

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Redeemer, to look upon a family where the children have no love for God, no respect for the word of God, but are all absorbed in reading storybooks. The time occupied in this way robs you of a desire to become effective in household duties; it disqualifies you to stand at the head of a family, and if continued it will entangle you more and more closely in Satan's snare. . . . Some of the books you read contain excellent principles, but you read only to get the story. If you would gather from the books you read that which would help you in the formation of your character, your reading would do you some good. But as you take up your books and peruse page after page of them, do you ask yourself, What is my object in reading? Am I seeking to gain substantial knowledge? You cannot build a right character by bringing to the foundation wood, hay, and stubble. {AH 416.4}

[skyblue888]

The counsel is written in plain and easy to understand language. You could philosphize yourself right out of understanding it if you try hard enough.

What kind of fiction?

The context is, again, supplied within the quote, there is no mystery here;

"...fiction which contains no suggestion of impurity, and which may be intended to teach excellent principles,..."

The principles haven't and will never change. They applied to Moses as much as they apply to us and to our current and future children.

Right on. It all boils down to whether we are philosophers or little children of God. If we are little children of God, we will find that these statements are written in plain and easy to understand language, as you have said, ClubV12.

sky

[John317]

Ellen White, on the reading of fiction:

Cont.

Quote:

Nature Study Strengthens the Mind.--The glory of God is displayed in His handiwork. Here are mysteries that the mind will become strong in searching out. Minds that have been amused and abused by reading fiction may in nature have an open book, and read truth in the works of God around them. All may find themes for study in the simple leaf of the forest tree, the spires of grass covering the earth with their green velvet carpet, the plants and flowers, the stately trees of the forest, the lofty mountains, the granite rocks, the restless ocean, the precious gems of light studding the heavens to make the night beautiful, the exhaustless riches of the sunlight, the solemn glories of the moon, the winter's cold, the summer's heat, the changing, recurring seasons, in perfect order and harmony, controlled by infinite power; here are subjects which call for deep thought, for the stretch of the imagination.

50

{CG 49.2}

If the frivolous and pleasure-seeking will allow their minds to dwell upon the real and true, the heart cannot but be filled with reverence, and they will adore the God of nature. The contemplation and study of God's character as revealed in His created works will open a field of thought that will draw the mind away from low, debasing, enervating amusements. The knowledge of God's works and ways we can only begin to obtain in this world; the study will be continued throughout eternity. God has provided for man subjects of thought which will bring into activity every faculty of the mind. We may read the character of the Creator in the heavens above and the earth beneath, filling the heart with gratitude and thanksgiving. Every nerve and sense will respond to the expressions of God's love in His marvelous works. {CG 50.1}

Chap. 15 - Mental Inebriates

What shall our children read? is a serious question, and demands a serious answer. I am troubled to see, in Christian families, periodicals and newspapers containing continued stories that leave no impress of good upon the mind. I have watched those whose taste for fiction has been thus cultivated. They have had the privilege of listening to the truths of God's word, of becoming acquainted with the reasons of our faith; but they have grown to mature years destitute of true piety. These dear youth need so much to put into their character-building the very best material,—the love and fear of God and a knowledge of Christ. But many have not an intelligent understanding of the truth as it is in Jesus. The mind is feasted upon sensational stories. They live in an unreal world, and are unfitted for the practical duties of life. I have observed children allowed to come up in this way. Whether at home or abroad, they are either restless or dreamy, and are unable to converse, save upon the most common-place subjects. The nobler faculties, those adapted to higher pursuits, have been degraded to the contemplation of trivial, or worse than trivial subjects, until their possessor has become satisfied with such topics, and scarcely has power to reach anything higher. Religious thought and conversation has become distasteful. The mental food for which he has acquired a relish, is contaminating in its effects, and leads to impure and sensual thoughts. I have felt sincere pity for these souls as I have considered how much they are losing by neglecting opportunities to gain a knowledge of Christ, in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. How much precious time is wasted, in which they might be studying the pattern of true goodness. {CTBH 123.1}

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I am personally acquainted with some who have lost the healthy tone of the mind through wrong habits of reading. They go through life with a diseased imagination, magnifying every little grievance. Things which a sound, sensible mind would not notice, become to them unendurable trials, insurmountable obstacles. To them, life is in constant shadow. {CTBH 124.1}

Those who have indulged the habit of racing through exciting stories, are crippling their mental strength, and disqualifying themselves for vigorous thought and research. There are men and women now in the decline of life who have never recovered from the effects of intemperate reading. The habit, formed in early years, has grown with their growth and strengthened with their strength; and their efforts to overcome it, though determined, have been only partially successful. Many have never recovered their original vigor of mind. All attempts to become practical Christians end with the desire. They cannot be truly Christ-like, and continue to feed the mind upon this class of literature. Nor is the physical effect less disastrous. The nervous system is unnecessarily taxed by this passion for reading. In some cases, youth, and even those of mature age, have been afflicted with paralysis from no other cause than excess in reading. The mind was kept under constant excitement, until the delicate machinery of the brain became so weakened that it could not act, and paralysis was the result. {CTBH 124.2}

When an appetite for exciting, sensational stories is cultivated, the moral taste becomes perverted, and the mind is unsatisfied unless constantly fed upon this trashy, unwholesome food. I have seen young ladies, professed followers of Christ, who were really unhappy unless they had on hand some new novel or story-paper. The mind craved stimulation, as the drunkard craves intoxicating drink. These youth manifested no spirit of devotion; no heavenly light was shed upon their associates, to lead them to the fount of knowledge. They had no deep religious experience. If this class of reading had not been

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constantly before them, there might have been some hope of their reforming; but they craved it, and would have it. {CTBH 124.3}

I am pained to see young men and women thus ruining their usefulness in this life, and failing to obtain an experience that will prepare them for an eternal life in heavenly society. We can find no more fit name for them than “mental inebriates.” Intemperate habits of reading exert a pernicious influence upon the brain as surely as does intemperance in eating or drinking. {CTBH 125.1}

The best way to prevent the growth of evil is to preoccupy the soil. The greatest care and watchfulness is needed in cultivating the mind and sowing therein the precious seeds of Bible truth. The Lord, in his great mercy, has revealed to us in the Scriptures the rules of holy living. He tells us the sins to shun; he explains to us the plan of salvation, and points out the way to heaven. He has inspired holy men to record, for our benefit, instruction concerning the dangers that beset our path, and how to escape them. Those who obey his injunction to search the Scriptures will not be ignorant of these things. Amid the perils of the last days, every member of the church should understand the reasons of his hope and faith,— reasons which are not difficult of comprehension. There is enough to occupy the mind, if we would grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. {CTBH 125.2}

We are finite, but we are to have a sense of the infinite. The mind must be brought into exercise in contemplating God and his wonderful plan for our salvation. The soul will thus be lifted above the mere earthly and common-place, and fixed upon that which is ennobling and eternal. The thought that we are in God's world, in the presence of the great Creator of the universe, who made man after his own likeness, will lead the mind into broad, exalted fields for meditation. The thought that God's eye is watching over us, that he loves us, and cared so much for us as to give his dearly beloved Son to redeem us, that we might not miserably perish, is a great one; and he who opens his heart to the acceptance

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and contemplation of themes like these, will never be satisfied with trivial, sensational subjects. {CTBH 125.3}

If the Bible were studied as it should be, men would become strong in intellect. The subjects treated upon in the word of God, the dignified simplicity of its utterance, the noble themes which it presents to the mind, develop faculties in man which cannot otherwise be developed. In the Bible, a boundless field is opened for the imagination. The student will come from a contemplation of its grand themes, from association with its lofty imagery, more pure and elevated in thought and feeling than if he had spent the time in reading any work of mere human origin, to say nothing of those of a trifling character. Youthful minds fail to reach their noblest development when they neglect the highest source of wisdom,—the word of God. The reason why we have so few men of good mind, of stability and solid worth, is, that God is not feared, God is not loved, the principles of religion are not carried out in the life as they should be. {CTBH 126.1}

God would have us avail ourselves of every means of cultivating and strengthening our intellectual powers. We were created for a higher, nobler existence than the life that now is. This time is one of preparation for the future, immortal life. Where can be found grander themes for contemplation, a more interesting subject for thought, than the sublime truths unfolded in the Bible? These truths will do a mighty work for man, if he will but follow what they teach. But how little the Bible is studied! Every unimportant thing is dwelt upon in preference to its themes. If the Bible were read more, if its truths were better understood, we should be a far more enlightened and intelligent people. Energy is imparted to the soul by searching its pages. Angels from the world of light stand by the side of the earnest seeker after truth, to impress and illuminate his mind. He who is dark of understanding may find light through an acquaintance with the Scriptures. {CTBH 126.2}

Could a large share of the books published be consumed, a plague would be stayed that is doing a fearful work upon mind and heart. Love stories, frivolous and exciting tales, and even that class of books called religious novels—books in which the author attaches to his story a moral lesson—are a curse to the readers. Religious sentiments may be woven all through a story-book, but, in most cases, Satan is but clothed in angel-robes, the more effectively to deceive and allure. None are so confirmed in right principles, none so secure from temptation, that they are safe in reading these stories. {CCh 168.4}

The readers of fiction are indulging an evil that destroys spirituality, eclipsing the beauty of the sacred page. It creates an unhealthy excitement, fevers the imagination, unfits the mind for usefulness, weans the soul from prayer, and disqualifies it for any spiritual exercise. {CCh 168.5}

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God has endowed many of our youth with superior capabilities; but too often they have enervated their powers, confused and enfeebled their minds, so that for years they have made no growth in grace or in a knowledge of the reasons of our faith, because of their unwise choice of reading. Those who are looking for the Lord soon to come, looking for that wondrous change, when "this corruptible shall put on incorruption," should in this probationary time be standing upon a higher plane of action. {CCh 169.1}

My dear young friends, question your own experience as to the influence of exciting stories. Can you, after such reading, open the Bible and read with interest the words of life? Do you not find the Book of God uninteresting? The charm of that love story is upon the mind, destroying its healthy tone, and making it impossible for you to fix the attention upon the important, solemn truths that concern your eternal welfare. {CCh 169.2}

Resolutely discard all trashy reading. It will not strengthen your spirituality, but will introduce into the mind sentiments that pervert the imagination, causing you to think less of Jesus and to dwell less upon His precious lessons. Keep the mind free from everything that would lead it in a wrong direction. Do not encumber it with trashy stories, which impart no strength to the mental powers. The thoughts are of the same character as the food provided for the mind. 239 {CCh 169.3}

Reading That Destroys the Soul

With the immense tide of printed matter constantly pouring from the press, old and young form the habit of reading hastily and superficially, and the mind loses its power of connected and vigorous thought. Furthermore, a large share of the periodicals and books that, like the frogs of Egypt, are overspreading the land, are not merely commonplace, idle, and enervating, but unclean and degrading. Their effect is not merely to intoxicate and ruin the mind, but to corrupt and destroy the soul 240 {CCh 169.4}

In the education of children and youth, fairy tales, myths, and fictitious stories are now given a large place. Books of this character are used in schools, and they are to be found in many homes. How can Christian parents permit their children to use books so filled with falsehood? When the children ask the meaning of stories so contrary to the teaching of their parents, the answer is that the stories are not true; but this does not do away with the evil results of their use. The ideas presented in these books mislead the children. They impart false views of life and beget and foster a desire for the unreal. {CCh 169.5}

The widespread use of such books at this time is one of the cunning devices of Satan. He is seeking to divert the minds of old and young from the great work of character building. He means that our children and youth shall be swept away by the soul-destroying deceptions with which he is filling the world. Therefore he seeks to divert their minds from the word of God and thus prevent them from obtaining a knowledge of those truths that would be their safeguard. {CCh 169.6}

Never should books containing a perversion of truth be placed in the hands of children or youth. Let not our children, in the very process of obtaining an education, receive ideas that will prove to be seeds of sin. 241 {CCh 169.7}

Another source of danger against which we should be constantly on guard is the reading of infidel authors. Such works are inspired by the enemy of truth, and no one can read them without imperiling the soul. {CCh 169.8}

[skyblue888]

John, why do you bring so many quotes together like this some of which have already been posted! The ones that have been quoted so far were not sufficient?

sky

[SivartM]

Right on. It all boils down to whether we are philosophers or little children of God.

Philosopher = lover of wisdom. When Jesus said to be like children did he mean that we should be simplistic and not engage in intellectual discussion (except sometimes)? Go tell people to be like children when they post long theological diatribes.

[John317]

On the reading of fiction, including "high-class fiction":

Quote:

Substitute Bible for Fiction

Both old and young neglect the Bible. They do not make it their study, the rule of their life. Especially are the young guilty of this neglect. Most of them find time to read other books, but the book that points out the way to eternal life is not daily studied. Idle stories are attentively read, while the Bible is neglected. This book is our guide to a higher, holier life. The youth would pronounce it the most interesting book they ever read had not their imagination been perverted by the reading of fictitious stories.-- CT 139. {CSW 24.1}

High-Class Fiction

There are works of fiction that were written for the purpose of teaching truth or exposing some great evil. Some of these works have accomplished good. Yet they have also wrought untold harm. They contain statements and highly wrought pen pictures that excite the imagination and give rise to a train of thought which is full of danger, especially to the youth. The scenes described are lived over and over again in their thoughts. Such reading unfits the mind for usefulness and disqualifies it for spiritual exercise. It destroys interest in the Bible. Heavenly things find little place in the thoughts. As the mind dwells upon the scenes of impurity portrayed, passion is aroused, and the end is sin. {CT 383.1}

Even fiction which contains no suggestion of impurity, and which may be intended to teach excellent principles, is harmful. It encourages the habit of hasty and superficial reading, merely for the story. Thus it tends to destroy the power of connected and vigorous thought; it unfits the soul to contemplate the great problems of duty and destiny. {CT 383.2}

By fostering a love for mere amusement, the reading of fiction creates a distaste for life's practical duties. Through its exciting, intoxicating power it is not infrequently a cause of both mental and physical disease. Many a miserable, neglected home, many a lifelong invalid, many an inmate of the insane asylum, has become such through the habit of novel reading. {CT 383.3}

It is often urged that in order to win the youth from

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sensational or worthless literature, we should supply them with a better class of fiction. This is like trying to cure a drunkard by giving him, in the place of whisky or brandy, the milder intoxicants, such as wine, beer, or cider. The use of these would continually foster the appetite for stronger stimulants. The only safety for the inebriate, and the only safeguard for the temperate man, is total abstinence. For the lover of fiction the same rule holds true. Total abstinence is his only safety. {CT 383.4}

And of how many modern authors also might the same be said! With how many are grace and beauty of language but a disguise for principles that in their real deformity would repel the reader! {Ed 227.1}

Besides these there is a multitude of fiction writers, luring to pleasant dreams in palaces of ease. These writers may not be open to the charge of immorality, yet their work is no less really fraught with evil. It is robbing thousands upon thousands of the time and energy and self-discipline demanded by the stern problems of life. {Ed 227.2}

In the study of science, as generally pursued, there are dangers equally great. Evolution and its kindred errors are taught in schools of every grade, from the kindergarten to the college. Thus the study of science, which should impart a knowledge of God, is so mingled with the speculations and theories of men that it tends to infidelity. {Ed 227.3}

Even Bible study, as too often conducted in the schools, is robbing the world of the priceless treasure of the word of God. The work of "higher criticism," in dissecting, conjecturing, reconstructing, is destroying faith in the Bible as a divine revelation; it is robbing God's word of power to control, uplift, and inspire human lives. {Ed 227.4}

Many of the popular publications of the day are filled with sensational stories that are educating the youth in wickedness and leading them in the path to perdition. Mere children in years are old in a knowledge of crime. They are incited to evil by the tales they read. . . . The seeds of lawlessness are sown broadcast. None need marvel that a harvest of crime is the result. {FLB 241.3}

The readers of fiction are indulging an evil that destroys spirituality, eclipsing the beauty of the sacred page. It creates an unhealthy excitement, fevers the imagination, unfits the mind for usefulness, weans the soul from prayer, and disqualifies it for any spiritual exercise. {FLB 241.4}

Suffer not yourselves to open the lids of a book that is questionable. There is a hellish fascination in the literature of Satan. It is the powerful battery by which he tears down a simple religious faith. Never feel that you are strong enough to read infidel books; for they contain a poison like that of asps. {FLB 241.5}

Young men and young women, read the literature that will give you true knowledge, and that will be a help to the entire family. Say firmly: "I will not spend precious moments in reading that which will be of no profit to me, and which only unfits me to be of service to others. . . . I will close my eyes to frivolous and sinful things." {FLB 241.6}

[Bravus]

The title of the thread is not 'Ellen White and Fiction'. These pages of Ellen White quotes are off-topic.

The claims was made that the Bible condemns fiction. That has not been backed up at all.

Evidence or retraction, please.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Right on. It all boils down to whether we are philosophers or little children of God.

Philosopher = lover of wisdom. When Jesus said to be like children did he mean that we should be simplistic and not engage in intellectual discussion (except sometimes)? Go tell people to be like children when they post long theological diatribes.

AMEN

[Woody]

The title of the thread is not 'Ellen White and Fiction'. These pages of Ellen White quotes are off-topic.

The claims was made that the Bible condemns fiction. That has not been backed up at all.

Evidence or retraction, please.

The retractions would be much more appropriate.

Look. IreneFaye is reading this thread. PLEASE ... do not cause a sister to stumble.

[skyblue888]

As to what I meant by whether we are philsophers or little children, please go to Seeds of Doubts on this forum (What Seventh-day Adventists Believe, starting on page 3) and read the posts by A.T. Jones from THE BIBLE IN EDUCATION.

[John317]

I think it's important to let Ellen White explain why she wrote what she did about fiction. These passages show the reasons that fiction reading is not good for us.

For example, in the following passage, she writes of the many wasted hours spent reading fiction, hours that owuld be better spent doing the work of God. During my lifetime, I have probably spent at least 25 years reading novels and plays, most of which are considered the "great books" of the world. Today I have a large room and much of my house filled with "high class" novels. These were my major field of study in a public university. I've read very little of them during the last few years, though, because my tastes have changed and I've been attracted more to the study of the Bible and the writings of Ellen White.

Quote:

Young friends, a knowledge of the Bible will help you to resist temptation. If you have been in the habit of reading storybooks, will you consider whether it is right to spend your time with these books, which merely occupy your time and amuse you, but give you no mental or moral strength? If you are reading them, and find that they create a morbid craving for exciting novels, if they lead you to dislike the Bible, and cast it aside, if they involve you in darkness and backsliding from God,--if this is the influence they have over you, stop right where you are. Do not pursue this course of reading until your imagination is fired, and you become unfitted for the study of the Bible, and the practical duties of real life. {FE 92.2}

Cheap works of fiction do not profit. They impart no real knowledge; they inspire no great and good purpose; they kindle in the heart no earnest desires for purity; they excite no soul hunger for righteousness. On the contrary, they take time which should be given to the practical duties of life and to the service of God,--time which should be devoted to prayer, to visiting the sick, caring for the needy, and educating yourself for a useful life. When you commence reading a storybook, how frequently

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the imagination is so excited that you are betrayed into sin. You disobey your parents, and bring confusion into the domestic circle by neglecting the simple duties devolving upon you. And worse than this, prayer is forgotten, and the Bible is read with indifference or entirely neglected. {FE 92.3}

[ClubV12]

Good avice Woody, you might ask yourself that very question! Are you, causing someone to stumble in your quest to deny the power of the plain speaking prophet on the subject of fiction? Be not a false sympathizer. Counsel does not often "tickle one's ear", it is hard to hear, hard to bear. And yet it is given in love so that we are aware and may avoid the pitt falls and snares that are set before us.

While it may be hard to see the wisdom in counsel that asks us to modify or even give up that which we cherish, it is given for our benefit. We can fight it, ignore it, condemn it and weaken it and never find the peace that God wants us to have concerning it. But when we surrender our will to His, only then, in time, will we see the beauty of it and praise God for enlightening and saving us from ourselves.

I tell you, when it began to dawn on me that racing my car was not compatible with spiritual growth, for me, it was a very hard saying. I did NOT want to hear it! To date, it is the hardest thing I have had to do. Initially I found plenty of reasons why it didn't apply to me, plenty of ways to justify it. But the Holy Spirit wouldn't let it go. The Holy Spirit WILL let it go, if you persist in having your own way long enough though! You will get that which you beg and long and dwell over long enough.

[skyblue888]

I think it's important to let Ellen White explain why she wrote what she did about fiction. These passages show the reasons that fiction reading is not good for us.

Yes but u don't think ClubV12 and I had already posted enough on that? When you and I are discussing we don't mind so many quotes but some here who are involved in this discussion can hardly stand seeing only a few statements from her writings. I was tempted to do just what you did but I thought it would be wiser to take one or two statements at a time and even it turns out to be way over the top for some.

sky

[ClubV12]

I see your point Sky.

Well, that what's John does, it's his modus operandi, I'll just have to get used to it I guess. Sometimes there are some real gems in there, but granted, you might have to dig deep to get to them.

[skyblue888]

Good avice Woody, you might ask yourself that very question! Are you, causing someone to stumble in your quest to deny the power of the plain speaking prophet on the subject of fiction? Be not a false sympathizer. Counsel does not often "tickle one's ear", it is hard to hear, hard to bear. And yet it is given in love so that we are aware and may avoid the pitt falls and snares that are set before us.

While it may be hard to see the wisdom in counsel that asks us to modify or even give up that which we cherish, it is given for our benefit. We can fight it, ignore it, condemn it and weaken it and never find the peace that God wants us to have concerning it. But when we surrender our will to His, only then, in time, will we see the beauty of it and praise God for enlightening and saving us from ourselves.

I tell you, when it began to dawn on me that racing my car was not compatible with spiritual growth, for me, it was a very hard saying. I did NOT want to hear it! To date, it is the hardest thing I have had to do. Initially I found plenty of reasons why it didn't apply to me, plenty of ways to justify it. But the Holy Spirit wouldn't let it go. The Holy Spirit WILL let it go, if you persist in having your own way long enough though! You will get that which you beg and long and dwell over long enough.

Amen and Well said. :)

[Bravus]

Don't paint this as opposition to Ellen White. It's not.

This thread was opened to test the claim that the Bible condemns fiction. That is its purpose.

Given that we're many pages and dozens of posts in with zero evidence presented, I think we can say pretty conclusively that:

The Bible does not condemn fiction