Prophets: True/False, how can we tell?

[Guest]

I have made my point and it is clear to all.

I don't even think it's clear to you, much less all.

[Guest]

All true RLH.

However in the case of our doctrines - Ellen White was not the one to "first find them". As you point out there would have been no problem if God had set that up - so that she WAS in such a role - but it just so happens that she was not.

in Christ,

Bob

You're exactly right. I was just trying to make the point that even if...

[Windsor]

Getting back to the topic, a false prophet makes false predictions. If God truly gave a vision to someone to usurp the name Seventh-day Adventist, then assuredly the Lord would provide the means. The fact is that He did not. Hence either God's power is weaker than the devil or the vision was false.

[BobRyan]

Bob, the issue here, the question, is, do we need any sources to assist us in the study of the bible for our personal growth today? Or, do we need only the bible and the bible alone and all truth will be revealed to anybody that reads it?

[Jody]

Getting back to the topic, a false prophet makes false predictions. If God truly gave a vision to someone to usurp the name Seventh-day Adventist, then assuredly the Lord would provide the means. The fact is that He did not. Hence either God's power is weaker than the devil or the vision was false.

_________________________

Formerly of official SDA forum

Windsor, that's the problem. No one "usurped the name" it belongs to anyone, everyone who keeps the commandments of God and has the faith of Jesus. It should have never been allowed to be trademarked in the first place.

[BobRyan]

Bob, I already knew you agreed with these statements. I was hoping you would say something about the other statements which are much more significant in that they show how to obtain this righteousness without which we can do nothing.

The 1888 message was an invitation to exercise "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousnes into the life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." F.W.65,66,27.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness, and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." ibid, 86

sky

Sky - both of those statements deal with the saved saint who has already been born again - and is already covered by the robe of Christ's rightousness. They speak to the way that someone "stays saved". The "persevere in doing good" aspect of the Christian walk that you see in Romans 2:6-7.

The point made is that we are always aware of our need of Christ's covering and in that dependency we come daily to God for grace, strength and help because that is the only way we "become" vessels fit for the Master's use.

notice that what we "become" is very much the subject of imparted righteousness - sanctification. But at each step we must be covered fully by Christ's righteousness to be accepted by God. We only retain that covering so long as we choose to "walk by the Spirit" as Paul points out in Romans 8. And in doing so "put to death the deeds of the flesh".

in Christ,

Bob

[Windsor]

Getting back to the topic, a false prophet makes false predictions. If God truly gave a vision to someone to usurp the name Seventh-day Adventist, then assuredly the Lord would provide the means. The fact is that He did not. Hence either God's power is weaker than the devil or the vision was false.

_________________________

Formerly of official SDA forum

Windsor, that's the problem. No one "usurped the name" it belongs to anyone, everyone who keeps the commandments of God and has the faith of Jesus. It should have never been allowed to be trademarked in the first place.

You completely missed the entire point of what I said. A vision was given and it turned out to be false. Don't try to change the topic.

[Jody]

What vision are you talking about?

[BobRyan]

By rejecting known truth, like the Lord's prophets, we reject the pleadings of the Holy Spirit. It places us on a downward path to a total rejection of the Holy Spirit, from which there is no recovery.

You have identified a serious topic mentioned in Matt 12 and 1John 5. It is one that is between each person's soul and God.

I have a neighbor who is looking into the subject of the Sabbath and though I present text after text - I am still not sure just where the Holy Spirit is convicting him in a "must have" fashion vs a "Bob is planting someone else will water and then later will come the decision".

I simply don't know what role I am playing or just how emphatic the Holy Spirit is making this a "do or die" momment with my friend across the street.

So while your statement is technically correct - it is more of a warning that each one of us must take seriously for ourselves than our ability to discern someone else's level of risk.

As Paul said in Gal 6:7 - "God is not mocked" - and as Christ points out in John 16:1-2 there comes a point when actual Christians think they "do God service" by persecuting and even killing the saints (as we saw in the dark ages).

in Christ,

Bob

[Windsor]

What vision are you talking about?

The vision of one Pastor Chick who claims he was told by God to take the name Creation SDA Church.

[Jody]

In response to:

Poster: Windsor

Subject: Re: Prophets: True/False, how can we tell?

Originally Posted By: Jody

What vision are you talking about?

Originally Posted By: Windsor

The vision of one Pastor Chick who claims he was told by God to take the name Creation SDA Church.

That is what I thought you were talking about, so I did not completely miss it, at all in fact nor was I off topic. You are saying his vision was false because "God told him to usurp the name" which of course God would not do, and I said the name was NOT usurped, that the name belongs to anyone and everyone who "Keeps the Commandments of God and has the faith of Jesus." So God would give him a vision to use the name in a ministry that actually believes the commandments of god can be kept and one can truly have the faith of Jesus.

[Windsor]

In response to:

Poster: Windsor

Subject: Re: Prophets: True/False, how can we tell?

Originally Posted By: Jody

What vision are you talking about?

Originally Posted By: Windsor

The vision of one Pastor Chick who claims he was told by God to take the name Creation SDA Church.

That is what I thought you were talking about, so I did not completely miss it, at all in fact nor was I off topic. You are saying his vision was false because "God told him to usurp the name" which of course God would not do, and I said the name was NOT usurped, that the name belongs to anyone and everyone who "Keeps the Commandments of God and has the faith of Jesus." So God would give him a vision to use the name in a ministry that actually believes the commandments of god can be kept and one can truly have the faith of Jesus.

You still miss the point. I don't care how it was phrased in vision. Whether it was usurped or if it was said 100% differently in his supposed vision, the fact remains that Chick has not been allowed to use the name that he claims God told him to use. Therefore the vision was false. God's power is not limited. If He wanted Chick to have the name Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Microsoft or Seventh-day Adventist church, He would have provided the way.

[miz3]

Good point Windsor!

[Jody]

Ok, I see, I did miss the point of what you were trying to say. But, because Pastor Chick was instructed to use the name by God, and there have arisen trials, doesn't mean it was a false vision. God didn't say "use this name and there will be no problems". He was just instructed to use that name. So that doesn't make him a false prophet.

[miz3]

Jody,

What makes you think pastorchick is a "true" prophet?

[Jody]

Miz, I have believed the promise in the bible ,

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: - Mal 4:5 KJV

And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Mal 4:6 KJV

I also believe God's promise (paraphrasing here) that if I want to know the truth and am willing to walk in the truth God will show me the truth. I believe I was led by God to this church. Though I have never personally met Pastor, I have watched quite a few of his sermons on DVD, read many of his writings, and have personally corresponded with him by email and on Sabbath afternoon chats where we discuss the sermon for the day. I am always blessed. I learned to see Christ as not only the sin pardoning redeemer, but as one who assures my victory. He is uplifted, the Father is uplifted. I believe everything I have heard is truth, though some of it has been new light for me. And when I have had questions, they have always been answered. I see Pastor as a man whose heart is full of the love of God, and an intense desire to reach others for Christ, and his former brethren with the 4th Angels message, which I see as the last message of mercy.

Rev 18:1 ¶ And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. So I heard that voice, and I came out.

So while most may not agree with CSDA interpretation of end time prophechies, I do. While most people see Pastor as "picking a fight" with SDA's I see someone like Jerehmiah, who was styled the "troubler of Israel" and I see the bitterness towards him, the accusations against him etc as added proof that he is what he claims to be, a special messenger of God and the Elijah that was to come, and I am so thankful to my Father in Heaven for leading me to His Bride.

[miz3]

Jody,

I can see that you have accepted every premise pastorchick has laid out. I admit he is quit slick.

I can also see that you are so far into this mess that only the power of God will be able to save you because you are too far beyond seeing the danger of your course.

I was willing to help you see the Truth but I can see that you are not willing to listen to anything but pastorchick and his false message. I just hope that God will spare you the pain of this course before it is too late.

One day soon pastorchick will be seen for the phony that he is and the damage that he will have done to other human beings will have been done.

I know, I know you don't see this. Mark my words it will happen. I just hope that you are not permanently damaged when it is too late.

I have seen such movements before, they have all claimed to be the right one but they always end up bringing damage to poor innocent unknowing souls. Most such movements are extremely small and gather only a very few adherents. As such most SDA and most people never even know that such movements even exist.

[Windsor]

Miz, I have believed the promise in the bible ,

Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: - Mal 4:5 KJV

And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. - Mal 4:6 KJV

I also believe God's promise (paraphrasing here) that if I want to know the truth and am willing to walk in the truth God will show me the truth. I believe I was led by God to this church. Though I have never personally met Pastor, I have watched quite a few of his sermons on DVD, read many of his writings, and have personally corresponded with him by email and on Sabbath afternoon chats where we discuss the sermon for the day. I am always blessed. I learned to see Christ as not only the sin pardoning redeemer, but as one who assures my victory. He is uplifted, the Father is uplifted. I believe everything I have heard is truth, though some of it has been new light for me. And when I have had questions, they have always been answered. I see Pastor as a man whose heart is full of the love of God, and an intense desire to reach others for Christ, and his former brethren with the 4th Angels message, which I see as the last message of mercy.

Rev 18:1 ¶ And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. So I heard that voice, and I came out.

So while most may not agree with CSDA interpretation of end time prophechies, I do. While most people see Pastor as "picking a fight" with SDA's I see someone like Jerehmiah, who was styled the "troubler of Israel" and I see the bitterness towards him, the accusations against him etc as added proof that he is what he claims to be, a special messenger of God and the Elijah that was to come, and I am so thankful to my Father in Heaven for leading me to His Bride.

11 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.” Luke 1:11-13

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear. Matthew 11:13-15

Jody,

Are you not willing to accept the interpretation given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ or that told by an angel to Zechariah? The scripture you quote was fulfilled a long long time ago through John the Baptist. The scriptures can't be any clearer on that point.

[Jody]

Hi Windsor, I do believe and accept the interpretation given by Jesus. But I also believe that that prophecy like many others has a dual fulfillment. When John came it was Christs' first advent. It was not considered the "Great and dreadful day of the Lord". I also believe what our prophetess EGW told us in TM 475

Let Heaven Guide

Prophecy must be fulfilled. The Lord says: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." Somebody is to come in the spirit and power of Elijah, and when he appears, men may say: "You are too earnest, you do not interpret the Scriptures in the proper way. Let me tell you how to teach your message." {TM 475.3}

I also believe all the counsel the bible gives on believing God's prophets and prospering, despising not prophechying etc.

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

You still miss the point. I don't care how it was phrased in vision. Whether it was usurped or if it was said 100% differently in his supposed vision, the fact remains that Chick has not been allowed to use the name that he claims God told him to use. Therefore the vision was false. God's power is not limited. If He wanted Chick to have the name Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Microsoft or Seventh-day Adventist church, He would have provided the way. [emphasis supplied]

Windsor,

Where have we lost use of our name?

1) Our name is still on our church house in Guys, TN.

2) We have numerous websites on the international level.

3) We have registered "companies" on the international level.

The only losses of our name have been minimal domain name losses. "GC legal" has NOT successfully enforced their injunction, though spending nearly 1 million dollars of church members' contributions.

Yes, God DOES "provide the way."

[miz3]

Jody and others,

"Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many."

Matthew 24:4.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."

Matthew 24:10-11.

"At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."

Matthew 24:23-26.

These texts are talking about pastorchick and his movement. Is this what you want to be a part of?

Jody, BarbaraLynn, and Sheila7 and others get out while you can before it is too late. Israfel and Qinael this is also for you too.

God's Holy Word has here warned you!

[Pastor_Chick]

[...]

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear. Matthew 11:13-15

Jody,

Are you not willing to accept the interpretation given by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ or that told by an angel to Zechariah? The scripture you quote was fulfilled a long long time ago through John the Baptist. The scriptures can't be any clearer on that point.

Windsor,

Your scholarship is flawed again. If you are a Seventh-day Adventist, you know that they were to be "the Elijah people." It was declared by the General Conference that EGW was the fulfillment of the Elijah prophecy. And, most SDAs who are familiar at all with the prophecy DO agree with the GC on that.

In order to teach properly, you must gather all Scriptures pertaining to the subject, and make conclusions based on the preponderance of the evidence. The "tongue-talkers" use your method of scholarship to prove their spurious "gift of tongues."

[Pastor_Chick]

Jody,

[...]

I have seen such movements before, they have all claimed to be the right one but they always end up bringing damage to poor innocent unknowing souls. [...] As such most SDA and most people never even know that such movements even exist. [emphasis supplied]

Miz,

You are obviously (from your view) "in the know" (more than "most SDA and most people"). So, surely you have a goodly list of "such movements" that you have "seen" "end[ing] up bringing damage to poor innocent unknowing souls."

Provide that list please. Or, are you "avoiding?"

[BarbaraLynn]

Jody and others,

"Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many."

Matthew 24:4.

"At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."

Matthew 24:10-11.

"At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it."

Matthew 24:23-26.

These texts are talking about pastorchick and his movement. Is this what you want to be a part of?

Jody, BarbaraLynn, and Sheila7 and others get out while you can before it is too late. Israfel and Qinael this is also for you too.

God's Holy Word has here warned you!

I have not read that Pastor Chick is claiming to be Christ! Nor have I read that Pastor Chick is Christ and we should go and see him in the desert or anywhere else! Applying these scriptures above to Pastor Chick, based on what I have read in these threads, is a sad and disgusting stretch of the imagination.

You have advised me and several others to 'get out before it is too late!'. What are you asking me to get out of? My relationship with God? It is because of that relationship that I have received victory over known sin, which is what you seem to have keyed on to put my name in this list. If that causes me to be deceived, in your mind, I am sorry that you are deceived into thinking so.

[Windsor]

Barb,

Half of those texts specifically mention false prophets. Of course, to you, all those other prophets out there are the false ones. Only Pastor Chick is the one receiving true revelations from God, right? I read a book once called "Beware of Angels" by Roger Morneau detailing how evil angels were masquerading as good angels and even as Christ Himself to Adventist believers in this day and age. These 'believers' loved thinking of themselves as super special people which is how the devil trapped them. I highly recommend reading that book.

False prophets appeared even in the time of Ellen White. One such prophet was named Anna. I would consider Chick the modern day Anna. Here was the testimony of Ellen White regarding her.

"The present is a time of great peril to the people of God. God is leading out a people, not an individual (Pastor Chick) here and there. He has a church on the earth, that abide in the truth; and when we see, not only men, but young girls, crying out against the church (Pastor Chick), we are afraid of them. We know God has not sent them (Pastor Chick), yet they ran, and all who do not accept their erratic ideas are denounced as warring against the Spirit of the Lord. All such things are in Satan’s line, but the work of God will go forward while there are now and ever will be those who work directly against the prayer of Christ. The work will advance, leaving them with their satanic inventions far behind."